Trae

[REHawksFan]

13 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Posting this article because I think it's good and outlines our fissues despite just above .500... Tagging @benhillboy cus I know he's always jonesing for those bootleg articles:

Hollinger: Trae Young can’t shoot straight, and that’s the Hawks’ biggest problem
By John Hollinger

So, uh … what’s the deal with Trae Young? And what’s going on with the Hawks?

For those of you who don’t follow the Atlanta Hawks closely, you might not have noticed anything wrong. At a surface level, Young appears to be having a similar year to his previous three seasons. He is averaging 27.2 points and 9.5 assists per game, similar to his averages of 28.4 and 9.7 a year ago. The Hawks, meanwhile, are 13-12 after 25 games, which is perhaps short of lofty internal expectations, but doesn’t track too far off where most people thought this team would be heading into the year.

Nonetheless, there is an impending sense that not all is well, and there are some good reasons for that. Suffice it to say, these are interesting times in Atlanta.

Young, of course, made news when he sat out last Friday’s win over Denver under curious circumstances, as detailed by our Shams Charania and Sam Amick, which then prompted an emphatic* pre-game statement by head coach Nate McMillan before Monday’s loss to Oklahoma City. As our Jeff Schultz noted, Young responded to the whole debacle with something less than elite leadership.

(*McMillan’s press conference dial is usually set at about 2 on a 1-to-10 scale. Very even-keeled, polite, measured and totally devoid of printable copy. By those standards, his marching to the podium on Monday and announcing “I have a statement!” was as if Stan Van Gundy or Doc Rivers showed up with a chainsaw).

Yet that incident may be the least of the Hawks’ problems. There is also the underlying story that things might seem much less dramatic if Young were simply making shots at his usual historic rate.

If he’s going to perk up this season, now would be a good time to start. The Hawks played their past few games in a roster pickle that has left them virtually devoid of NBA forwards, with De’Andre Hunter, John Collins and Justin Holiday all out of the lineup. They’ve had Bogdan Bogdanovic for only three games. Even at full strength, Hunter and Holiday have struggled mightily all year.

Yet, despite the recent Forwardgeddon, the Hawks are not a disaster. Again, at a surface level, things seem okay. The Hawks are 14th in defense, a stated goal after finishing 26th a year ago and trading for Dejounte Murray in the offseason. While they may have benefited slightly from shooting variance, it’s not a fluke. Their only real weakness is a propensity for fouling.

Alas, the Hawks are a meager 19th at the offensive end, which was not expected, and their 29th ranking in both 3-point percentage and frequency underscores the issue. They ranked second in the league in points scored per 100 possessions a year ago and finished 8th in this category in 2020-21, when they rode an elite offense to the conference finals and even put a scare into eventual champion Milwaukee. Those results came even with large offensive drop-offs when Young was off the floor. The theory was that with Murray in tow to bolster those minutes and Young a one-man offense unto himself, Atlanta wouldn’t slide that far despite losing Kevin Huerter and Danilo Gallinari.

That hasn’t borne out, and you can point fingers a lot of directions. Collins is basically a bystander at this point, which I’ve already covered. Hunter has floundered since signing a $90 million extension (and really before then too, but hey …). La familia Holiday defends, but Justin is shooting 39.4 percent and Aaron, 41.3 percent. Second-year pro Jalen Johnson hasn’t quite been ready, especially as a floor-spacer (22.6 percent from 3). Two-way wing Jarret Culver defends and plays with energy, but can’t shoot either (1-for-9 from 3 this year, 27.9 percent for his career).

The Hawks are also feeling the brunt of other moves to avoid the luxury tax, most notably trading a 42.6 percent 3-point shooting wing in Huerter. They still only have 14 of the maximum 15 roster spots filled, even as a torrent of injuries guts the rotation. They’re sweating out every Murray 3-pointer and Clint Capela free throw because of incentives in those two contracts that could put them over the tax. (At the moment, the most likely scenario is that the Hawks skate under by $786,720.)

They’re hanging onto Vit Krejci, an unwanted contract from Oklahoma City, because cutting his partially guaranteed deal and signing somebody else pushes them closer to the tax, if not over. His deal also allows the Hawks to stay at the minimum 14 players until 10-day contract season starts in early January, when they can “stream” the last roster spot and even ride with only 13 for short stretches to further minimize the cap hit.

In addition to offloading Huerter to skirt the tax, the Hawks never used their midlevel or biannual exception this offseason. Even as depth loomed as an obvious potential issue, Atlanta opted only to sign Aaron Holiday and Frank Kaminsky for the minimum. The Hawks also may have missed their moment to trade Collins, who has now hit the trifecta of underutilized, overpaid and unhappy. (He recently added “injured” as well, but should be back before too long.)

That’s a long preamble about the Hawks’ situation before we get to Trae Young.

And yet … part of the big bet Atlanta made this offseason was about Trae Young. That he was so good that it was worth maximizing his prime. In particular, that he’s so good offensively that Atlanta could afford to spend more effort worrying about surrounding him with defense.

Young just hasn’t been that guy this year. Or not in this country, at least. He dropped 31 on Milwaukee’s starters in the first half in Atlanta’s second preseason game in Abu Dhabi, including several deep 3-pointers and a nutmeg of Bobby Portis. That player hasn’t been seen since.

Young made seven 3s in that half against the Bucks, which was not terribly unusual for him. He made eight in a game against the Bucks in 2021-22, and six or more on nine occasions last season. In 2022-23, not so much – he’s only made as many as five once, in 23 games. That’s partly because his 3-point attempts are down, slightly. Mostly, it’s because his 3-point accuracy is down, massively: Young has only made 28.9 percent of his 3s this season, compared to 38.2 percent last year. (For reference, Josh Smith shot 28.5 percent from 3 in his NBA career.

Sorry, Hawks fans but, yeah. It’s been bad. The 166-shot sample is getting large enough that it’s hard to write off as variance.

He knows it, too, throwing up his hands in mock celebration after making his lone triple in seven attempts in Monday’s loss to Oklahoma City.

The story doesn’t get any better when breaking Young’s 3s down by shot type. You can sort this data on NBA.com for shot-clock time, dribbles taken, defender distance and what type of cereal for breakfast. They all lead to the same place: he’s worse at basically every type of 3-point shot than a year ago. His shot quality and distribution hasn’t seemed to change much this season from 2021-22, but his accuracy has. The vast majority of Young’s 3s are off the dribble, something the Hawks hoped might change playing next to Murray, but really hasn’t. And the vast majority of his 3s are considered “open” or “wide open” by tracking data, because of Young’s knack for creating space.

He’s just missing them now. According to the NBA’s tracking data, Young made 42.5 percent of his 3s with six feet or more of room from his defender in 2021-22; this year’s he’s at 36.4 percent. With a defender within 4-6 feet, he’s made a respectable 35.2 percent; he’s at a ghastly 23.5 percent this season. It’s not getting better, either: Young has made only five of his last 34 tries from deep.

Trying to find a cause is difficult. Subjectively, his shot looks maybe a bit flatter than a year ago, causing him to miss long more than he once did. But you’d need to do a lot of squinting to say this definitely off videotape. For instance, here’s a shot from his 45-point maestro performance in New York last March, when he made seven of his 15 3-point attempts:

(This was a video of him splashing a smooth three agains the Knicks last year)

And here is Young line-driving a miss long against the Thunder on Monday, and then putting a dent in the backboard versus New York on Wednesday:

(This was a video of him clanking a line drive shot, miss isn't too bad but shot doesn't look good)

(This was a video of him bricking a three that doesn't touch rim, painful to watch, be glad I can't embed the videos)

(Fun side note: That last miss against New York was an after-timeout play. Yuck.)

Young’s 2-point shooting is also down from a year ago, at a career-low 46.6 percent inside the arc. In particular, he’s seemed to struggle to knock down the full-speed running floaters that have been such a staple of his game. Nonetheless, one might be tempted to place more of the blame for this squarely on the lack of spacing. Virtually the entire difference in his 2-point shooting is the result of A) shooting worse at the rim and B) shooting more frequently from floater range, both of which underline the notion that he’s playing in crowds a lot more than he did in past years.

Of course, there is one data point left to talk about, which could make the next few weeks quite interesting. Young’s shot profile hasn’t changed, but his time with the rock has.

He is averaging more frontcourt touches than a year ago but less time with each, as the Hawks have made Murray a more prominent piece of their attack. Last year, none of the top nine Hawks besides Young had a Usage Rate above 21.5 percent. Even that one belonged to Bogdanovic, who usually ran offense when Young sat. This year, however, Murray is at 25.8 percent, the second-highest mark of his career after last season’s 27.3 mark in San Antonio.

This takes us back to an issue that may underlie some of the problems for Young: Just plain ol’ comfort. The partnership between Young and Murray has been uneasy on the court, with more of a your-turn, my-turn feel than a symbiosis between two All-Star guards. That might have been inevitable to some extent, given the presence of only one basketball. But it also speaks to how rarely Young has played off the ball in his career. Look, Young wants to get the ball and run a pick-and-roll going to his right, over and over and over and over again. That’s it. When he gives up the ball to Murray’s side of the floor, he turns into a mannequin.

The interesting part is that Murray will be out for the next two to three weeks nursing an ankle sprain suffered early in Wednesday’s loss to the Knicks. Which means we’re back to this being the Trae Young Show.

One might note that Young has only played one game without Murray so far this year … the preseason contest where he went bananas on the Bucks in Abu Dhabi. Despite a hugely shorthanded roster, Atlanta has a series of winnable games in the next three weeks – two against the Bulls and Magic, one each against Detroit, Indiana and Charlotte. Could this be the spark to get his season back on track?

At the very least, seeing Young sans Murray will give us better data points on what Murray’s addition means for the Trae Young experience. Is the first 25 games of this season a shooting slump blip for Young, or something bigger? Is it a sign that Murray was the wrong player to put next to Young? Does Young’s need to be on the ball mean that virtually any perimeter sidekick will deflate his output? And what do all these questions mean for the larger questions of the Hawks’ roster construction as we near the trade deadline?

As I said, the 13-12 start masks that these are interesting times in Atlanta … and that the peak version of Trae Young still might fix a lot of what’s wrong. When or if that player appears is anybody’s guess.

This is basically what most of us have been saying.

1. Hawks have spacing issues because collectively they suck at shooting.

2. The your-turn my-turn offense is terrible and doesn't allow anyone to get into rhythm.

3. Trae has sucked (by his standards) for large portions of the season and it's likely due to 1 & 2 above.  

4. The onus is on Nate to figure this crap out OR on Landry / Travis to make roster changes to fix the weirdness.

[Mikey]

On 12/6/2022 at 9:44 AM, Sothron said:

I don't know what to tell you. You can believe whatever you want certainly but I know from my source that Trae has been asking for more movement for two seasons and wanting to come off screens for catch and shoot for the same amount of time. 

Feel free to believe the worse in Trae if you want though.

This just isnt true and the numbers back it. They did a ton more off ball movement actions for him at the start of season but as season has gone on he has resorted to his old ways. He does not want to be an offball player

[AHF]

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

This is basically what most of us have been saying.

1. Hawks have spacing issues because collectively they suck at shooting.

2. The your-turn my-turn offense is terrible and doesn't allow anyone to get into rhythm.

3. Trae has sucked (by his standards) for large portions of the season and it's likely due to 1 & 2 above.  

4. The onus is on Nate to figure this crap out OR on Landry / Travis to make roster changes to fix the weirdness.

Only quibble I have is with 3.  I don't think the shooting numbers are all about 1 and 2.  He has just been slumping from 3pt range badly this year on top of that.  

[benhillboy]

Nothing really to see here.  I’ve never paid much mind to Trae’s shooting or scoring.  Hollinger isn’t a high-level ball guy.  He’s still talking about Trae off ball wtf.

If you’re a supporter of Trae’s he’s still the only guy in the league averaging 27 and 10 and he’s gonna have a couple weeks to shoot even more than @TheNorthCydeRises wants lol.  It’s been obvious his shot types haven’t changed from his preferences.  All his advanced metrics are similar to his career marks.  

Hollinger did make a point to highlight how frugal Ressler is tho lol.  That boy have nightmares about luxury taxes.  The Clint and DJ incentives I didn’t know of.  I like em.  Explains why DJ has taken (and made) some very out-of-character attempts.  He just raised his 3 point percentage to .366 I’m like when that happen?!?!

Edited December 9, 2022 by benhillboy

[JeffS17]

4 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

Hollinger did make a point to highlight how frugal Ressler is tho lol.  That boy have nightmares about luxury taxes.  The Clint and DJ incentives I didn’t know of.  I like em.  Explains why DJ has taken (and made) some very out-of-character attempts.

Yeah, I applaud all shots at Ressler for avoiding the tax.  My level of annoyance with his tax evasion will sky rocket if he continues to be frugal in the upcoming years we traded away our first rounders.

I also didn't know about DJs incentives.  I found an article that references them (see below).  Crazy to me a guard in this modern NBA has an incentive to chuck threes -- Murray loves those middies more than I thought lol kinda neat the Spurs put some money on his development there though

• $500k every season with a true shooting percentage above 58 percent
• $500k for making 125-plus threes
• $500K being selected to an All-Defensive Team

He's been making two threes a game when playing, but this is an aggregate total so his missed time will hurt him.  If he plays ~65 games this season, he has a good chance to get that one.  I really doubt he'll get 58% TS, doesn't get to the line enough.  All-defensive team is unlikely as well.  

[JayBirdHawk]

55 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Yeah, I applaud all shots at Ressler for avoiding the tax.  My level of annoyance with his tax evasion will sky rocket if he continues to be frugal in the upcoming years we traded away our first rounders.

I also didn't know about DJs incentives.  I found an article that references them (see below).  Crazy to me a guard in this modern NBA has an incentive to chuck threes -- Murray loves those middies more than I thought lol kinda neat the Spurs put some money on his development there though

• $500k every season with a true shooting percentage above 58 percent
• $500k for making 125-plus threes
• $500K being selected to an All-Defensive Team

He's been making two threes a game when playing, but this is an aggregate total so his missed time will hurt him.  If he plays ~65 games this season, he has a good chance to get that one.  I really doubt he'll get 58% TS, doesn't get to the line enough.  All-defensive team is unlikely as well.  

I talked about the incentives for both DJ and CC back in October.

 

 

[benhillboy]

If anyone has the latest Zach Lowe 10 Things article where he touches on Trae and DJ please feel free to upload that guy.  Thanks a lot in advance.

[Diesel]

 When Atlanta's guards don't leverage each other

Something is off with the Hawks. The Trae Young-Nate McMillan kerfuffle -- first reported by The Athletic -- feels like something that hints at deeper issues, not an inconsequential one-off.

Atlanta has scored 113.7 points per 100 possessions with both Young and Dejounte Murray on the floor -- equivalent to the No. 8 overall offense. That's pretty good, but not great -- and probably not what the Hawks envisioned, considering they ranked No. 2 in offensive efficiency last season. The fit issues pairing two ball-dominant guards were obvious, but Young and Murray are talented enough to iron them out.

There were encouraging signs over Atlanta's first 10 games. Young was running off about 12 off-ball screens per 100 possessions, per Second Spectrum -- double his career rate. He wasn't just loitering near half-court, off your screen, when Murray ran the show. Young needed to bump that number closer to 20, but 12 was a good start.

Welp.

It's back down to Young's career norms, meaning he has basically stopped doing anything away from the ball. He's only setting about two off-ball screens per 100 possessions. There is way too much of this:

That is dull co-existence -- sharing space. They are not amplifying each other.

The Hawks can still produce good offense that way. Defenders would still stick to Young -- decluttering the paint -- if he laid down and napped at mid-court. Murray and Young are star shotmakers who can beat in-your-jersey defense.

The "your turn, my turn" stagnancy won't be good enough against the best teams. The Philadelphia 76ers face a higher-class version of this problem with Joel Embiid and James Harden, but at least those guys play different positions. One of them is an elite rim-protector. Young might be the worst heavy-minutes defender in the league.

Murray missing some time with an ankle injury further sets back the integration process. Keep an eye on the Hawks. They could teeter into instability.

 

[Final_quest]

One thing I can say about Trae is that he gets knocked down and then he gets back up.  I always thought Cam was the opposite and struggled with negative self talk.  Trae has a strong internal self belief system.  If you don't develop that from a young age, it's extremely difficult to change. 

In our recent losses we've had leads in the 4th quarter.  I still believe this group can redeem themselves, and we aren't really behind in the standings yet.  We're only a couple games out of a top 4 seed.  If Capela was playing like a gimpy shell of himself, I wouldn't be optimistic.  He is playing at least at 80-85%, and then you have Bogi, AJ, and even Forrest sparking the bench. 

Last year we weren't as competitive in our losses when we were in our slump November through January.  Remember when they almost broke the team record for consecutive home losses?  I don't think this team has given up. 

Mentally this is a different team.  Trae, DJM, Bogi, and AJ have a winning mentality.  I'm giving them a chance to show us they can put together a successful scheme.  I'm giving Trae a chance to get back up from this slump.    

[NBASupes]

On 12/9/2022 at 8:50 AM, REHawksFan said:

This is basically what most of us have been saying.

1. Hawks have spacing issues because collectively they suck at shooting.

2. The your-turn my-turn offense is terrible and doesn't allow anyone to get into rhythm.

3. Trae has sucked (by his standards) for large portions of the season and it's likely due to 1 & 2 above.  

4. The onus is on Nate to figure this crap out OR on Landry / Travis to make roster changes to fix the weirdness.

1. One is true because you can't replace Kevin for anyone other than an top end shooter or you make Capela's anti gravity an issue for not just Murray but also Trae. 

2. This offense will never change. No matter the coach. 

3. 1 more than 2. 2 been an issue but its gotten worse when you add Murray who's another PG to the mix.

4. This is clearly a Landry/Travis issue but the fix is obvious and it's massive. It's gonna take a significant player like KAT and another going to Minnesota like Murray 

Edited December 11, 2022 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

On 12/7/2022 at 1:16 PM, BudBall said:

I feel guilty not wanting to watch hawks due to how horrific Trae shooting is with all the bad shots and horrible defense. He is the best player we have had in a long time yet I have the urge for us to look into trades for him. 

He's an offensive juggernaut but when his offense isn't elite for whatever reason, he instantly becomes a liability because of his usage, lack of off ball movement and his defense. 

Trae is a strange player. He can carry your offense mainly by himself but you have to build it around him and you can't miss.

Edited December 11, 2022 by NBASupes

[benhillboy]

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

 When Atlanta's guards don't leverage each other

Something is off with the Hawks. The Trae Young-Nate McMillan kerfuffle -- first reported by The Athletic -- feels like something that hints at deeper issues, not an inconsequential one-off.

Atlanta has scored 113.7 points per 100 possessions with both Young and Dejounte Murray on the floor -- equivalent to the No. 8 overall offense. That's pretty good, but not great -- and probably not what the Hawks envisioned, considering they ranked No. 2 in offensive efficiency last season. The fit issues pairing two ball-dominant guards were obvious, but Young and Murray are talented enough to iron them out.

There were encouraging signs over Atlanta's first 10 games. Young was running off about 12 off-ball screens per 100 possessions, per Second Spectrum -- double his career rate. He wasn't just loitering near half-court, off your screen, when Murray ran the show. Young needed to bump that number closer to 20, but 12 was a good start.

Welp.

It's back down to Young's career norms, meaning he has basically stopped doing anything away from the ball. He's only setting about two off-ball screens per 100 possessions. There is way too much of this:

That is dull co-existence -- sharing space. They are not amplifying each other.

The Hawks can still produce good offense that way. Defenders would still stick to Young -- decluttering the paint -- if he laid down and napped at mid-court. Murray and Young are star shotmakers who can beat in-your-jersey defense.

The "your turn, my turn" stagnancy won't be good enough against the best teams. The Philadelphia 76ers face a higher-class version of this problem with Joel Embiid and James Harden, but at least those guys play different positions. One of them is an elite rim-protector. Young might be the worst heavy-minutes defender in the league.

Murray missing some time with an ankle injury further sets back the integration process. Keep an eye on the Hawks. They could teeter into instability.

 

Good looking, D.  

[benhillboy]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

He's an offensive juggernaut….

No.

His career assist to turnover ratio is 2.21.  This season it’s 2.6.  That’s  good for 43rd in the league.

Here is his career adjusted shooting:

His FT shooting has been 13% better than league average, FT rate 57% above.  These are literally the only areas he’s excelled in as a pro.

If that’s a “juggernaut” go look at the adjusted shooting of CP3, LeBron, or Kyrie and come back to me.  They’re Super Galactus.  Hell SGA has a better league-adjusted shooting profile and he’s been on a tank the majority of his career.

[MarylandHawk]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

 When Atlanta's guards don't leverage each other

Something is off with the Hawks. The Trae Young-Nate McMillan kerfuffle -- first reported by The Athletic -- feels like something that hints at deeper issues, not an inconsequential one-off.

Atlanta has scored 113.7 points per 100 possessions with both Young and Dejounte Murray on the floor -- equivalent to the No. 8 overall offense. That's pretty good, but not great -- and probably not what the Hawks envisioned, considering they ranked No. 2 in offensive efficiency last season. The fit issues pairing two ball-dominant guards were obvious, but Young and Murray are talented enough to iron them out.

There were encouraging signs over Atlanta's first 10 games. Young was running off about 12 off-ball screens per 100 possessions, per Second Spectrum -- double his career rate. He wasn't just loitering near half-court, off your screen, when Murray ran the show. Young needed to bump that number closer to 20, but 12 was a good start.

Welp.

It's back down to Young's career norms, meaning he has basically stopped doing anything away from the ball. He's only setting about two off-ball screens per 100 possessions. There is way too much of this:

That is dull co-existence -- sharing space. They are not amplifying each other.

The Hawks can still produce good offense that way. Defenders would still stick to Young -- decluttering the paint -- if he laid down and napped at mid-court. Murray and Young are star shotmakers who can beat in-your-jersey defense.

The "your turn, my turn" stagnancy won't be good enough against the best teams. The Philadelphia 76ers face a higher-class version of this problem with Joel Embiid and James Harden, but at least those guys play different positions. One of them is an elite rim-protector. Young might be the worst heavy-minutes defender in the league.

Murray missing some time with an ankle injury further sets back the integration process. Keep an eye on the Hawks. They could teeter into instability.

 

Yeah,  I noticed this. Trae has to trust his team more. This reminds me of the Micheal Jordan breakthrough year where he finally trusted Paxton to shoot the last shot.  It unlocked the Bulls. Trae has supreme confidence in himself and now he has to have supreme confidence in his team. He does not need to be Steph Curry, but he has hot to get off the ball a little earlier and stay active without the ball and trust that the ball will find the weak spot in the defense.  My guy will make the small adjustment in fue time. 

[JeffS17]

3 hours ago, benhillboy said:

No.

His career assist to turnover ratio is 2.21.  This season it’s 2.6.  That’s  good for 43rd in the league.

Here is his career adjusted shooting:

His FT shooting has been 13% better than league average, FT rate 57% above.  These are literally the only areas he’s excelled in as a pro.

If that’s a “juggernaut” go look at the adjusted shooting of CP3, LeBron, or Kyrie and come back to me.  They’re Super Galactus.  Hell SGA has a better league-adjusted shooting profile and he’s been on a tank the majority of his career.

That's the most worrying part of his game -- if the whistles get tight, he's not an elite scorer.  It happened in some of the game in our playoff run in '21 and v Miami too.  His efficiency would benefit from him not needing to -- or not feeling like he needs to -- create every bucket.

[Wretch]

On 12/9/2022 at 9:50 AM, REHawksFan said:

This is basically what most of us have been saying.

1. Hawks have spacing issues because collectively they suck at shooting.

2. The your-turn my-turn offense is terrible and doesn't allow anyone to get into rhythm.

3. Trae has sucked (by his standards) for large portions of the season and it's likely due to 1 & 2 above.  

4. The onus is on Nate to figure this crap out OR on Landry / Travis to make roster changes to fix the weirdness.

These are good points and the article posted by @Diesel is another example of people, outside of us, seeing what's wrong.  What I really want to talk about is point #2.  The "turn taking" is something that I noticed in the preseason...and it appeared as though the only wrinkle added to our offense was staggering our PG minutes.

To point #1 though, this is side effect of the offense.  We DEAD LAST in the NBA in passing and below the league average by a laughable margin.  We're shooting a lot of contested shots because there is no movement in the offense.  The ball rarely swings so guys are not getting a ton of catch and shoot opportunities.  It's just a lot of 1 on 1 basketball.

On point #3, you're absolutely right.  For one he's taking a lot of contested shots - quite a few of them 3s with a hand in his face.  Again, the ball is not moving, there is no 1-2 synergy between DJM and Trae, so there are few opportunities to get Trae open jumpers.  Which is a clear indictment of this offense because we HAVE another guy who defenders have to respect AND can run the point.  Secondly, when we're struggling Trae tries to do too much...so a lot of his poor shot selection is coming at the most inopportune times.

Finally, on point #4...it's pretty much spelled out.  This offense works with good shooters and ONE primary ball-handler.  It's not going to work like this.

[AHF]

21 hours ago, benhillboy said:

No.

His career assist to turnover ratio is 2.21.  This season it’s 2.6.  That’s  good for 43rd in the league.

Here is his career adjusted shooting:

His FT shooting has been 13% better than league average, FT rate 57% above.  These are literally the only areas he’s excelled in as a pro.

If that’s a “juggernaut” go look at the adjusted shooting of CP3, LeBron, or Kyrie and come back to me.  They’re Super Galactus.  Hell SGA has a better league-adjusted shooting profile and he’s been on a tank the majority of his career.

For the reasons we have discussed, you should be comparing apples to apples by looking at AST% and TO%.  As we've mentioned while looking at CP3, his A/TO is inflated due to taking fewer shots.  When you look at simple A/TO, you penalize guys whose teams rely on them to create their own offense while boosting people who are marginal contributors as scorers.  By looking at AST%/TO%, you equalize for their role as a scorer or non-scorer.  It may well still be your view that he is inferior to the guys you've mentioned, but you will at least be directly comparing them instead of doing the apples to oranges bit.

[Spud2nique]

Trae and I are pissy today. I agree.

 

 

   

[kg01]

6 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Trae and I are pissy today. I agree.

 

 

   

So, a couple things ....

1. I'm pissed off lately too.  Not sure how to shake it other than a series of Hawks wins buuut....

2. Throwing the ball into the stands has been a fine for a couple years now.  Trae gotta do better, know better.

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

shake

Grrrr  

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

shake it

Oh sorry I thought you said ..