The Official NBASupes, Sothron, and theCampster Insider Thread - NBA 2022-23 Season

[Wretch]

36 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

I just don't get it, none of these trades fix our 3pt shooting or rebounding issues.

Simmons - We get worse at rebounding and shooting, AND take on another max contract?  I just don't see how that ever works unless we can get KAT, then we have 4 max contracts.  Capela has to go immediately if we trade for Simmons.  

The Utah trade for Vanderbilt/Beasley.  Absolutely destroys our spacing/shooting.  We would have zero shooting from the 4/5.  Won't work.

Crowder?  Improves our shooting but kills our rebounding.  We going to swap Collins for Crowder at the 4 when we're already getting destroyed on the boards?  You cant play OO and CC together for extended minutes so that's just a nonstarter for me.  

 

All of these deals are going to require major changes afterwards to make it all fit.  Maybe that's the goal, IDK.  

I think we should just wait until the summer if this is all that's on the table.

This is why fooling around with your front office is a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE idea.  Combine that with ownership meddling and you could be looking at a decade of setbacks...only to end up in the lottery and no return on your previous assets or WORSE on the perpetual treadmill in the middle of the pack.  You've got to find a capable GM with a plan, surround him with the best possible scouts and advisors, let them execute, and leave them alone.

We have been here before and I am so tired of worrying about our front office.............

[bleachkit]

According to Hawks people on 92.9 the game (Conti, etc ) , the JC trade that was vetoed last year involved JC for Harrison Barnes and draft compensation (no details on specific draft compensation).

Edited January 18, 2023 by bleachkit

[yungsta]

32 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

I just don't get it, none of these trades fix our 3pt shooting or rebounding issues.

Crowder?  Improves our shooting but kills our rebounding.  We going to swap Collins for Crowder at the 4 when we're already getting destroyed on the boards?  You cant play OO and CC together for extended minutes so that's just a nonstarter for me.  

 

All of these deals are going to require major changes afterwards to make it all fit.  Maybe that's the goal, IDK.  

I think we should just wait until the summer if this is all that's on the table.

10 hours ago, Sothron said:

He is from Atlanta, he's been working at Georgia Tech and low key working out with some hawks players. 

If he's a JC replacement it isn't the end of the world. He's a starting level PF that doesn't need the ball, he can defend and he can hit wide open threes. Look at what he's done in his career. He's always been a plus to any team he's on. 

If its true that Capela is most likely gone and big OO is being groomed as our full time starter, I'm dying laughing at the thought of us rolling out a 6'6 Jae crowder and 6'9 OO as our full time frontcourt.

[bleachkit]

5 minutes ago, yungsta said:

If its true that Capela is most likely gone and big OO is being groomed as our full time starter, I'm dying laughing at the thought of us rolling out a 6'6 Jae crowder and 6'9 OO as our full time frontcourt.

Trae needs viable lob threats, otherwise defenses will not let him get his floater off. I don't see it either.

[Diesel]

29 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If it's one thing I've learn is never to fully take GM speak as fact, semi-fact, actual intention. Etc. Things happen fast, things change, the unexpected happens etc.

 

 

Let me tell you how the interview went.

Trae:  Landry,  we need you and KK to go out there and assure the people of this front office. 

Landry:  How?

Trae:  Shit, I don't know.. Just tell them that you're in control and you're taking your time making decisions... They always go for that kind of stuff. 

Landry:  What about when they ask about you?

Trae:  Don't even let on that I have anything to do with anything.  You continue being the face of this front office and when your time here is done, you will be able to write your own ticket anywhere.   Even San Antonio.   BTW, how is getting Simmons going?

Landry:  I'm working on it. 

Trae:  Good, I want him by the trade deadline.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

Trae needs viable lob threats, otherwise defenses will not let him get his floater off. I don't see it either.

Yep... OO can't finish the lobs...

[sturt]

15 minutes ago, Wretch said:

This is why fooling around with your front office is a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE idea.  Combine that with ownership meddling and you could be looking at a decade of setbacks...only to end up in the lottery and no return on your previous assets or WORSE on the perpetual treadmill in the middle of the pack.  You've got to find a capable GM with a plan, surround him with the best possible scouts and advisors, let them execute, and leave them alone.

We have been here before and I am so tired of worrying about our front office.............

My inclination is that this was unavoidable b/c of what we've been told about there being some family health reason motivating Travis decision to talk with Ressler about stepping back. I'm left to believe that the timeline accelerated, but that Landry was hired with the idea of being groomed to succeed Travis eventually, sooner or later, and it's turned out sooner.

[JayBirdHawk]

22 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

According to Hawks people on 92.9 the game (Conti, etc ) , the JC trade that was vetoed last year involved JC for Harrison Barnes and draft compensation (no details on specific draft compensation).

Yep. I posted this earlier. 

 

The Athletic’s Shams Charania reported Kings general manager Monte McNair had engaged the Atlanta Hawks in talks over John Collins. Sacramento has reportedly not included the No. 4 pick in those discussions, but there is potential for a deal involving Kings forward Harrison Barnes.

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Let me tell you how the interview went.

Trae:  Landry,  we need you and KK to go out there and assure the people of this front office. 

Landry:  How?

Trae:  Shit, I don't know.. Just tell them that you're in control and you're taking your time making decisions... They always go for that kind of stuff. 

Landry:  What about when they ask about you?

Trae:  Don't even let on that I have anything to do with anything.  You continue being the face of this front office and when your time here is done, you will be able to write your own ticket anywhere.   Even San Antonio.   BTW, how is getting Simmons going?

Landry:  I'm working on it. 

Trae:  Good, I want him by the trade deadline.

Tell them "Hawksness"

[Sothron]

So I'll post the rumor here with the blessing of the guy that first brought it up. I'll give what details I can.

Hawks trade:

Clint Capela

Bogi

Justin Holliday

Hawks receive:

Deandre Ayton

Jae Crowder

Damion Lee

I had heard from my own sources sometime in mid Dec or so that Bogi for Crowder was being discussed. Then the talks apparently grew from there. We almost did the Capela for Ayton trade in the offseason as a sign and trade but Trae vetoed the trade. 

From what I have been told Trae now values overall talent more than individual friendships. He wants to win.  Having Ayton is an improvement over Capela. Crowder is a starting level PF or at least a very good rotation player. He can play either PF or SF. He also doesn't care about his touches in an offense.

I know what you are asking. What about JC? This is separate from that talk. Utah is trying to get JC but I'm hearing the two more likely places are Indiana for Duarte and two protected firsts. The other place is a JC for Simmons swap. 

If we landed Simmons our starting five would be:

Trae

DJM

Hunter

Simmons

Ayton

If we trade for Duarte/two firsts we would look like this:

Trae

DJM

Hunter

Crowder

Ayton

I have not heard from I am about to say. Just using my logical deduction facilities here. If we make the PHX trade there's no way JC can stay on this roster. I mean he COULD stay and we could bring Crowder off the bench. But if JC is not used enough now I can't imagine how few touches he would get with Ayton whose a legit 20 ppg center if you get him the ball on this team. 

Plus there's the salaries to consider beyond this season.

I think the two trades would be virtually dependent on each other. We get better and younger at center with Ayton. Do we then flip Ayton and OO in the offseason to try and get Embiid or KAT? Not if we get Simmons because of the max contract rules on a team limit. But if we don't get Simmons? Ayton and OO sound more interesting to me if I'm either of those teams at least Philly. 

If we did make the PHX trade though I have to think the plan is to keep those guys, work out an extension with Crowder if he plays well here and that's our team going forwards into next season. At least with those players. JC can be swapped for either LT relief and two firsts or you swing him to the Nets for Trae's buddy Ben Simmons.

So that's the big trade we've been talking about last night and this morning. Capela/Bogi/Justin gone and Ayton/Crowder/Lee brought back in.

 

[ShooterSays]

Thanks, @Sothron for sharing! The Ayton rumor is exciting. 

Can someone who's more b-ball IQ savey than myself speak to Ayton and what he can bring?

More specifically, do you think an OO/Ayton frontcourt could work?

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, Sothron said:

 

I have not heard from I am about to say. Just using my logical deduction facilities here. If we make the PHX trade there's no way JC can stay on this roster. I mean he COULD stay and we could bring Crowder off the bench. But if JC is not used enough now I can't imagine how few touches he would get with Ayton whose a legit 20 ppg center if you get him the ball on this team. 

Plus there's the salaries to consider beyond this season.

Then trading JC for Simmons who makes $10 mil more is also problematic for salaries going forward.

[Sothron]

Just now, ShooterSays said:

Thanks, @Sothron for sharing! The Ayton rumor is exciting. 

Can someone who's more b-ball IQ savey than myself speak to Ayton and what he can bring?

More specifically, do you think an OO/Ayton frontcourt could work?

If I were to grade Capela I would go something like this:

Offense: C-

Defense: A

Rebounding: A

Ayton would go:

Offense: B+

Defense: B

Rebounding: B+

Ayton is four years younger as well.

Ayton can score in the low post, the mid range, you can also rim run with him and he can actually shoot free throws at a good clip for a center (he's shooting like 73% this season and is pretty much a 75% career shooter) so on offense he actually opens up the offense more than Capela ever could.

On defense he's good but not All Defense level like Capela is. 

How he would play with OO is interesting. Ayton can actually hit mid range jumpers. You could put OO in the dunker spot or have him post up and let him score. OO would have to move to PF to play next to Ayton but it definitely could work. 

[shakes]

4 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Thanks, @Sothron for sharing! The Ayton rumor is exciting. 

Can someone who's more b-ball IQ savey than myself speak to Ayton and what he can bring?

More specifically, do you think an OO/Ayton frontcourt could work?

I've always felt that Ayton is a highly skilled offensvie big with good mid range shooting touch with very little basketball IQ.   Defensively the best we can hope for is he can guard his man, but I wouldn't expect him to anchor a defense from a team perspective.

 

he can also lack intensity and look like he's day dreaming at times.

 

 

[Sothron]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Then trading JC for Simmons who makes $10 mil more is also problematic for salaries going forward.

Remember, Daddy Ressler has said he would pay the LT for a team he thought could  contend. I could see Nick talking Daddy Ressler into paying the LT in order to put together that team and keep it.

[ShooterSays]

Just now, Sothron said:

If I were to grade Capela I would go something like this:

Offense: C-

Defense: A

Rebounding: A

Ayton would go:

Offense: B+

Defense: B

Rebounding: B+

Ayton is four years younger as well.

Ayton can score in the low post, the mid range, you can also rim run with him and he can actually shoot free throws at a good clip for a center (he's shooting like 73% this season and is pretty much a 75% career shooter) so on offense he actually opens up the offense more than Capela ever could.

On defense he's good but not All Defense level like Capela is. 

How he would play with OO is interesting. Ayton can actually hit mid range jumpers. You could put OO in the dunker spot or have him post up and let him score. OO would have to move to PF to play next to Ayton but it definitely could work. 

Good post.

Pairing OO and Ayton is the most enticing part of this to me. I think Ayton opens up a lot on offense and I don't think defense would drop all that much IF he and OO can coexist on the offensive end.

Honestly, trade probably makes sense for both teams. Both teams are underperforming and could probably benefit from a big change. If anything, Ayton is younger like you mentioned and extends our window.

[Diesel]

9 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Thanks, @Sothron for sharing! The Ayton rumor is exciting. 

Can someone who's more b-ball IQ savey than myself speak to Ayton and what he can bring?

More specifically, do you think an OO/Ayton frontcourt could work?

Uhm... OO becomes a BU C. 

I know I will get a whole lot of OO stands pushback (Where's Spud)... but OO is not close to being ready to be a PF.   Ayton has range...but we need some rebounding.    Maybe that would be the angle to playing OO at the PF.  I guess it's no different than using Simmons at the PF spot.   But if we get Simmons, then OO becomes a BU. 

 

[AHF]

Ayton is not on a rookie max deal is he?

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Remember, Daddy Ressler has said he would pay the LT for a team he thought could  contend. I could see Nick talking Daddy Ressler into paying the LT in order to put together that team and keep it.

Fool me once....I don't believe it.

If it happens I'd gladly eat crow.

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Ayton is not on a rookie max deal is he?

No, Suns matched the Indy offer.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Ayton is not on a rookie max deal is he?

Nah.  Remember Phoenix made him go out and find a deal.