The Official NBASupes, Sothron, and theCampster Insider Thread - NBA 2022-23 Season

[MarylandHawk]

2 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

I think the issue with him is that when he was drafted number 1 overall, he expected the team to be built around him. When they got Chris Paul and the vets got healthy, the entered into a win now mode where Ayton had to play a “role”.  This is where the fracture came in especially when there was max money on the line.  The year they went to the finals, he accepted the role but the following year he wanted a bigger role and a chance to make his money. The coach denied him that and there really was no repairing that.  The coach and team reinvested in Paul. I believe Ayton thinks he can be an even better player than he is right now and still wants to prove it. Money is no longer an issue right now. I believe he has matured but would be better off starting over with a new coach/team. He fits well with what we lack. 

I don’t think phoenix can refuse a package of Clint and John for Ayton and Crowder. The issue is does that make us better?  The only way I see it works is if Okungwu is on the floor with Ayton and crowder and Jalen come off the bench. John’s  and Clint's leadership can’t be underestimated though. It is such a fine line. It will come down to wether or not Hawks management truly believes in Ayton.  Don’t get me wrong I am not on the trade away John or Clint train. Love both those guys.  But have to consider all options and if the option makes us better now and in the future, you have to pull the trigger. 

[JayBirdHawk]

12 minutes ago, JTB said:

I didn’t know he was hurt.

I knew he wasn’t playing great but I thought he could benefit playing behind two very good guards.

but I will take your word for it that it’s a bad trade. I can admit I haven’t really watched the clippers this season.

John Wall, who only missed one game this season due to injury and the other nine due to injury management, suffered an abdominal injury and will be re-evaluated in two weeks, the Clippers announced.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

33 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

I think the issue with him is that when he was drafted number 1 overall, he expected the team to be built around him. When they got Chris Paul and the vets got healthy, the entered into a win now mode where Ayton had to play a “role”.  This is where the fracture came in especially when there was max money on the line.  The year they went to the finals, he accepted the role but the following year he wanted a bigger role and a chance to make his money. The coach denied him that and there really was no repairing that.  The coach and team reinvested in Paul. I believe Ayton thinks he can be an even better player than he is right now and still wants to prove it. Money is no longer an issue right now. I believe he has matured but would be better off starting over with a new coach/team. He fits well with what we lack. 

Expand  

I don’t think phoenix can refuse a package of Clint and John for Ayton and Crowder. The issue is does that make us better?

No

[MarylandHawk]

The small things I would like to see is us trade Kaminsky and a 2nd to Miami for Dedmon and the sign Solo to a vet minimum. That will give our locker room some much needed veteran leadership and well as some good back up center play. 

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

The small things I would like to see is us trade Kaminsky and a 2nd to Miami for Dedmon and the sign Solo to a vet minimum. That will give our locker room some much needed veteran leadership and well as some good back up center play. 

Love Solo.. Would love to see him back... But I dunno.  His twitter looks like a retired man's journey. 

We do need a Physical C though. 

[MarylandHawk]

9 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

No

At some point you have to make room for OO’s growth. He was a 6th overall pick and his game fits better next to Ayton than it does Clint or John. Not to mention this would clear space to resign Murray when Crowder’s salary comes off the books.  Again, not saying this is what I want, but it has to be something the Hawks have to consider.  To me, the only thing that kills a deal like this is Ayton’s “make up” Can him and Trae build a relationship and can he be trusted in the locker room. If the answer is no, then keep it moving. 

[Diesel]

20 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

I don’t think phoenix can refuse a package of Clint and John for Ayton and Crowder.

Oh, I know exactly how that conversation will go.

 

Hawks HQ....

Landry is about to make a call  to Phoenix GM James Jones......

Landry:   Hi James, this is Landry.  I wanted to know if you would consider taking Clint Capela and John Collins for....

Jones:  Done!!  Send over the paper work and we'll have them on the plane immediately.

Landry:  Wait, you didn't even give me a chance to finish telling you the...

Jones:  No Landry.. A Deal is a Deal, I will go to Silver himself if you try to back out of this deal.  No GM will ever trust you again.  We have a verbal agreement!!

Landry:  But I was trying to say that we want...

Jones:  I told you... A Deal is A Deal.  Send over the paperwork... 

Jones Hangs up.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

12 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

At some point you have to make room for OO’s growth. He was a 6th overall pick and his game fits better next to Ayton than it does Clint or John. Not to mention this would clear space to resign Murray when Crowder’s salary comes off the books.  Again, not saying this is what I want, but it has to be something the Hawks have to consider.  To me, the only thing that kills a deal like this is Ayton’s “make up” Can him and Trae build a relationship and can he be trusted in the locker room. If the answer is no, then keep it moving. 

There's no way I'm trading BOTH for Ayton.

[Diesel]

10 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

At some point you have to make room for OO’s growth. He was a 6th overall pick and his game fits better next to Ayton than it does Clint or John. Not to mention this would clear space to resign Murray when Crowder’s salary comes off the books.  Again, not saying this is what I want, but it has to be something the Hawks have to consider.  To me, the only thing that kills a deal like this is Ayton’s “make up” Can him and Trae build a relationship and can he be trusted in the locker room. If the answer is no, then keep it moving. 

That is the faulty logic that lead us to spending so much time and money on Marvin Williams.   I believe in a Merit based system.  We don't make moves based on the inabilities of our Jr. Players.   We make moves that make us stronger now... today.  The Phoenix deal that you cite will take away all of our strength.  We just started playing good defense and you want to take away our defensive anchor and a guy who has been a strong sidekick all season.. and replace them with middling defensive talent at best.

Secondly, as a championship quality team, you're not trying to make deals that loses players and saves money.  Have we learned nothing from Kevin?  What did Ressler saving that LT money cost this team?

 

[MarylandHawk]

8 minutes ago, Diesel said:

That is the faulty logic that lead us to spending so much time and money on Marvin Williams.   I believe in a Merit based system.  We don't make moves based on the inabilities of our Jr. Players.   We make moves that make us stronger now... today.  The Phoenix deal that you cite will take away all of our strength.  We just started playing good defense and you want to take away our defensive anchor and a guy who has been a strong sidekick all season.. and replace them with middling defensive talent at best.

Secondly, as a championship quality team, you're not trying to make deals that loses players and saves money.  Have we learned nothing from Kevin?  What did Ressler saving that LT money cost this team?

 

The truth of the matter is those two guys helped their team go further than Clint and John did. OO is already a better defensive player than John and when given more minutes he has proven he gets better. Let me quit before  I turn into Supes.   Lol. 

[JTB]

13 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

There's no way I'm trading BOTH for Ayton.

I would in a heart beat. Move OO to the 4 and we have a 3 headed monster offensively without killing the defense.

not sure why you’d be against that trade.

[MarylandHawk]

17 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

There's no way I'm trading BOTH for Ayton.

Well when put it that way… fugheetabuotit…lol. 

[JTB]

1 minute ago, MarylandHawk said:

The truth of the matter is those two guys helped their team go further than Clint and John did. OO is already a better defensive player than John and when given more minutes he has proven he gets better. Let me quit before  I turn into Supes.   Lol. 

But it’s true and it’s always been true. John has definitely improved but when it comes to guarding the elites I would much rather have OO on the floor over JC.
 

I’ve been with Supes on that front from the start that OO is a better defender than JC. It’s just that overall JC is better since OO offensively isn’t close to Collins at all.

my theory is however that if you have a 3 headed monster offensively in Trae, Murray, Ayton…then OO can do what he loves and what got him drafted him and dedicate his full attention to defense.

[MarylandHawk]

13 minutes ago, JTB said:

But it’s true and it’s always been true. John has definitely improved but when it comes to guarding the elites I would much rather have OO on the floor over JC.
 

I’ve been with Supes on that front from the start that OO is a better defender than JC. It’s just that overall JC is better since OO offensively isn’t close to Collins at all.

my theory is however that if you have a 3 headed monster offensively in Trae, Murray, Ayton…then OO can do what he loves and what got him drafted him and dedicate his full attention to defense.

It is enticing but it all depends on what’s in Ayton’s heart and mind. That is such a risk. His upside is still better than Clint and John but it is just that right now. Upside until he is given the chance to prove it.  That’s why GMs get paid the bug bucks. 

[SalvorMallow]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

But it’s true and it’s always been true. John has definitely improved but when it comes to guarding the elites I would much rather have OO on the floor over JC.
 

I’ve been with Supes on that front from the start that OO is a better defender than JC. It’s just that overall JC is better since OO offensively isn’t close to Collins at all.

my theory is however that if you have a 3 headed monster offensively in Trae, Murray, Ayton…then OO can do what he loves and what got him drafted him and dedicate his full attention to defense.

Yeah it would be great to have OO "on the floor".  The problem is, he has shown that he can't stay on the floor with extended minutes because he fouls so much. He generally has 5 fouls, and that's with 20 minutes. OO needs to prove that he can defend without fouling before we clear the roster and extend his minutes.

[sturt]

2 hours ago, MarylandHawk said:

I believe Ayton thinks he can be an even better player than he is right now and still wants to prove it. Money is no longer an issue right now. I believe he has matured

I know any Ayton advocate would like to think that, but to be convincing, one would have to provide some evidence/support for that conclusion.

Maybe I've just not been paying attention, but I know of nothing to suggest he's matured.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, MarylandHawk said:

The truth of the matter is those two guys helped their team go further than Clint and John did. OO is already a better defensive player than John and when given more minutes he has proven he gets better. Let me quit before  I turn into Supes.   Lol. 

Those two guys lost to the same team we lost to.  Actually, I doubt they could have beaten Philly.   You're joking right...

Moreover, OO is a foul machine.   Defense is more than Blocking shots.  Defense includes rebounding and positional defense also.   Which is what OO sucks at doing... Let's not talk about offense.

 

 

[kg01]

OO will be better than Collins DEFENSIVELY once he figures out how to stop fouling.  They said, he hasn't figured out how to stop fouling so .... not better than Collins.

Offensively, it's not even worth discussing.

[Gray Mule]

I don't "know" this but I believe that it's true because I've heard it more than once.  One of the reasons that the Hawks win games when Capela is playing is that his voice is heard on defensive sets by the other players on the team.  He is not bashful.  He's not afraid to speak up.  He appears to be the captain of the defense when he's on the floor.

If anyone knows that this is not true, please feel free to correct this.

[marco102]

12 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

I don't "know" this but I believe that it's true because I've heard it more than once.  One of the reasons that the Hawks win games when Capela is playing is that his voice is heard on defensive sets by the other players on the team.  He is not bashful.  He's not afraid to speak up.  He appears to be the captain of the defense when he's on the floor.

If anyone knows that this is not true, please feel free to correct this.

John took on that role while Client has been out.  That's why the defense went to hell when John was in foul trouble all those games. 

OO has a lot of talent on the defensive end, but the leap John has made as a team defender and communicator makes him  a better player on both ends right now.