The Official NBASupes, Sothron, and theCampster Insider Thread - NBA 2022-23 Season

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Milwaukee would never do that.  Lopez would be a good look on this team, even if he doesn't rebound.

Depends...  Milwaukee have to think about reupping Lopez after this season.   They may not want the hassle.   Moreover, they had interest in Bogi before we snagged him.   He's better than Grayson Allen. 

 

 

[JeffS17]

5 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

If Trae's DRaptor is ( -1.5 ) . . . and Ayton's DRaptor is ( -2.0 ) . . . does that make Deandre the WOAT defensively?

The metric only really works comparing teammates imo, but I do appreciate the comment lol

[Threezus]

10 hours ago, Diesel said:

Got a trade thought for those of you who want to see OO at PF...

 

How about:

Bogi/JJ to Milwaukee..

Lopez/Connaughton to the Hawks...

We get to roll Lopez to the BU C.    OO goes to BU PF.   They get a ball handling Shooter and an up and coming 4. 

 

We get rid of Bogi's no defense butt and terrible iso game  while gaining a legit quality backup big that can shoot the rock from deep.   Would hate to lose JJ upside i like him a good bit but i might pull this trigger.  I REALLLLLLY don't want bogi on this team and have been begging to get him off it for 2 years now.

[Diesel]

45 minutes ago, Threezus said:

We get rid of Bogi's no defense butt and terrible iso game  while gaining a legit quality backup big that can shoot the rock from deep.   Would hate to lose JJ upside i like him a good bit but i might pull this trigger.  I REALLLLLLY don't want bogi on this team and have been begging to get him off it for 2 years now.

The only problem is that the ownership would have to make resigning Lopez a priority.   This is part of the reason I think Milwaukee considers it. 

 

[Diesel]

You think Milwaukee will flip Serge Ibaka for Frank the Tank??

[Final_quest]

5 hours ago, Threezus said:

We get rid of Bogi's no defense butt and terrible iso game 

Take a look at the AJ Griffin thread.  Bogi is literally 7th best in the league  in self creation shots at 57%.  You’re not seeing this correctly.  He is under control and doesn’t force much of anything.  
Between he and AJ, they can create their own looks in the flow of a game, FGM 57%.  

[JTB]

5 hours ago, Final_quest said:

Take a look at the AJ Griffin thread.  Bogi is literally 7th best in the league  in self creation shots at 57%.  You’re not seeing this correctly.  He is under control and doesn’t force much of anything.  
Between he and AJ, they can create their own looks in the flow of a game, FGM 57%.  

That’s very interesting! He’s 7th in the league among all players?

can you share the source?

[JTB]

11 hours ago, Diesel said:

You think Milwaukee will flip Serge Ibaka for Frank the Tank??

I think bud would do it in heartbeat since he loves shooting big men.

I think ibaka can still be productive with the right big men in place. He’d definitely help with a wall defense here as a rotational big man .

[Final_quest]

12 minutes ago, JTB said:

That’s very interesting! He’s 7th in the league among all players?

can you share the source?

I literally just noticed it when the post/tweet was actually about AJ Griffin:


Basically means between AJ and Bogi we have 2 high level shot creators off the bench.  How else was Bogi averaging 17 points off the bench last year?  He and Gallo were our best shot creators outside of Trae.  

[marco102]

16 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I literally just noticed it when the post/tweet was actually about AJ Griffin:


Basically means between AJ and Bogi we have 2 high level shot creators off the bench.  How else was Bogi averaging 17 points off the bench last year?  He and Gallo were our best shot creators outside of Trae.  

Yeah, I noticed that too, but didn't mention it in my post.  Bogi's been stellar with his midrange game.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

31 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I literally just noticed it when the post/tweet was actually about AJ Griffin:


Basically means between AJ and Bogi we have 2 high level shot creators off the bench.  How else was Bogi averaging 17 points off the bench last year?  He and Gallo were our best shot creators outside of Trae.  

 

This is why the ISO ball that we play, doesn't bother me as much as it does others.  In the playoffs, you do need some ISO players that are able to create their own offense and score the basketball.  Ball movement is very important to get good shots.  But when defenses clamp down, you need people who can create their own shot.

This is why we can put up high point totals playing this way. The next level we probably need to get to as a team, is to feed the hot hand.  If Bogi is hot, get him the ball.  If AJ is hot, get him the ball.  If Dre is hot, get him the ball. 

If Trae or Dejounte has it going, it's OK that they're scoring the basketball and not getting it to others, as long as we're extending a lead or getting back into a game.  And if people are having an off night, go ahead and dial it back a little to see if you can get the ball to someone who is playing well.

At the end of the day, our issue really is on the defensive side of the ball, specifically the offensive rebounds we give up that lead to 2nd chance points.  It's only offense when we're not stopping people, which means we may have to score 120 to win a game.

[marco102]

Just now, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

This is why the ISO ball that we play, doesn't bother me as much as it does others.  In the playoffs, you do need some ISO players that are able to create their own offense and score the basketball.  Ball movement is very important to get good shots.  But when defenses clamp down, you need people who can create their own shot.

This is why we can put up high point totals playing this way. The next level we probably need to get to as a team, is to feed the hot hand.  If Bogi is hot, get him the ball.  If AJ is hot, get him the ball.  If Dre is hot, get him the ball. 

If Trae or Dejounte has it going, it's OK that they're scoring the basketball and not getting it to others, as long as we're extending a lead or getting back into a game.  And if people are having an off night, go ahead and dial it back a little to see if you can get the ball to someone who is playing well.

At the end of the day, our issue really is on the defensive side of the ball, specifically the offensive rebounds we give up that lead to 2nd chance points.  It's only offense when we're not stopping people, which means we may have to score 120 to win a game.

You see what you want to see.  ISO is fine as part of the offense.  The problem was ISO was the offense before this recent streak.  The Hawks are moving the ball so much better and making that extra pass to the open man with the better shot. 

If you don't think the offense is better than the earlier part of the season, I don't know what to tell you.    It sure as hell isn't better because they are taking more ISO shots.  In fact, it's better because they've moved away from the isolation that it's gotten so much better.  Miami came back on the Hawks because Spolestra saw it was smart to make the Hawks mismatch hunt and go ISO.  The offense cratered and the heat made a come back.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

You see what you want to see.  ISO is fine as part of the offense.  The problem was ISO was the offense before this recent streak.  The Hawks are moving the ball so much better and making that extra pass to the open man with the better shot. 

If you don't think the offense is better than the earlier part of the season, I don't know what to tell you.    It sure as hell isn't better because they are taking more ISO shots.  In fact, it's better because they've moved away from the isolation that it's gotten so much better.  Miami came back on the Hawks because Spolestra saw it was smart to make the Hawks mismatch hunt and go ISO.  The offense cratered and the heat made a come back.

You simply have to make shots or draw fouls when you play ISO ball.  One thing I've always said about the Hawks is that getting someone a wide open shot, isn't necessarily the best offensive play.  If that guy can't shoot, it ends up as a missed shot ( see John Collins before the new year ).  But if you know you have a guy who can get you a bucket, or some points in a possession, that's the only thing that matters.

Murray's rise in these last 5 or so games, is strictly coming off of ISO basketball.  You know that, right?  What you don't want to be ISO, are the 3 point looks.  This is why Trae gets so much heat for his 3s.  A lot of them come off the dribble with him sometimes not being in rhythm.  Ball movement is best when you're trying to knock down the 3.  But to set up that ball movement at times, you need ISO players who can draw that extra man to them.

People are going to start game planning to stop Murray's FT line jumper. Once they do, watch and see how Murray gets the ball to the open man so they have great looks. Trae can find the open man around the hoop, or swing it to the open guy in the corner.  His issue is just getting the ball out of his hands faster.  But even in his case, we DO need his ISO offense for him to set up the floater or to draw fouls on the other team.

[Final_quest]

Another different stat that shows Bogi as one of the best ISO players statistically.  This is from NBA.com isolation efg% leaders:

So, Bogi being a "terrible" iso player is not true at all.  Statistically he is one of the best.  

[marco102]

17 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

You simply have to make shots or draw fouls when you play ISO ball.  One thing I've always said about the Hawks is that getting someone a wide open shot, isn't necessarily the best offensive play.  If that guy can't shoot, it ends up as a missed shot ( see John Collins before the new year ).  But if you know you have a guy who can get you a bucket, or some points in a possession, that's the only thing that matters.

Murray's rise in these last 5 or so games, is strictly coming off of ISO basketball.  You know that, right?  What you don't want to be ISO, are the 3 point looks.  This is why Trae gets so much heat for his 3s.  A lot of them come off the dribble with him sometimes not being in rhythm.  Ball movement is best when you're trying to knock down the 3.  But to set up that ball movement at times, you need ISO players who can draw that extra man to them.

People are going to start game planning to stop Murray's FT line jumper. Once they do, watch and see how Murray gets the ball to the open man so they have great looks. Trae can find the open man around the hoop, or swing it to the open guy in the corner.  His issue is just getting the ball out of his hands faster.  But even in his case, we DO need his ISO offense for him to set up the floater or to draw fouls on the other team.

Murray's offense is coming off him attacking the seams.  That's not what I mean by ISO.  ISO is when someone is dribbling dribbling and then taking contested shots.  Murray is getting the ball while the defense is overloaded on one side and making quick decision to get to his midrange. 

That to me isn't iso.  That's playing within the offense and taking what the defense gives you.

[marco102]

14 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Another different stat that shows Bogi as one of the best ISO players statistically.  This is from NBA.com isolation efg% leaders:

So, Bogi being a "terrible" iso player is not true at all.  Statistically he is one of the best.  

Aaron Holiday is the best isolation player?  

[Final_quest]

14 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Aaron Holiday is the best isolation player?  

No, in his extremely limited isolation opportunities he has a high success rate.  0.3 possessions in 41 games equates to about 12 isolation plays total for the season in his case.  He's probably shot 10/14 or something like that.  

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

You see what you want to see.  ISO is fine as part of the offense.  The problem was ISO was the offense before this recent streak.  The Hawks are moving the ball so much better and making that extra pass to the open man with the better shot. 

If you don't think the offense is better than the earlier part of the season, I don't know what to tell you.    It sure as hell isn't better because they are taking more ISO shots.  In fact, it's better because they've moved away from the isolation that it's gotten so much better.  Miami came back on the Hawks because Spolestra saw it was smart to make the Hawks mismatch hunt and go ISO.  The offense cratered and the heat made a come back.

 

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

You simply have to make shots or draw fouls when you play ISO ball.  One thing I've always said about the Hawks is that getting someone a wide open shot, isn't necessarily the best offensive play.  If that guy can't shoot, it ends up as a missed shot ( see John Collins before the new year ).  But if you know you have a guy who can get you a bucket, or some points in a possession, that's the only thing that matters.

Murray's rise in these last 5 or so games, is strictly coming off of ISO basketball.  You know that, right?  What you don't want to be ISO, are the 3 point looks.  This is why Trae gets so much heat for his 3s.  A lot of them come off the dribble with him sometimes not being in rhythm.  Ball movement is best when you're trying to knock down the 3.  But to set up that ball movement at times, you need ISO players who can draw that extra man to them.

People are going to start game planning to stop Murray's FT line jumper. Once they do, watch and see how Murray gets the ball to the open man so they have great looks. Trae can find the open man around the hoop, or swing it to the open guy in the corner.  His issue is just getting the ball out of his hands faster.  But even in his case, we DO need his ISO offense for him to set up the floater or to draw fouls on the other team.

I think it's the ISO in conjunction with pace that makes a difference. Its offense early in the shot clock vs playing against a set defense and just standing running the clock then shooting.

[JTB]

If we keep winning and happen to catch up and be in play for the 3rd - 5th seed….I believe the next big update we get from our insiders is that there are plans to keep the team in place at least until the summer. Hell even Mcmillian may have a chance at keeping his job with this staff.

 The the last time all started to go well though …schlenk said he regretted “staying intact” the next year when we sucked ass.

 

Im talking hypothetically of course but since chemistry is being figured out and the team is playing waaayyy better and Mcmillian and his staff are coaching better, JC is getting offensive opportunities..….no moves may be embraced by Resseler, Trae, or our GMs unless a superstar talent is in reach and even then you have to make sure you don’t kill your depth when you do that.

 

crazy how much winning can (or could) start resolving shit!

[JayBirdHawk]

I want to hear from the insiders regarding what happened with the players behind the scenes and why they've suddenly put it together. Team meeting? A come to Jesus moment? A talk with Nate and or management to clear the air? @Sothron @NBASupes @thecampster