The Official NBASupes, Sothron, and theCampster Insider Thread - NBA 2022-23 Season

[marco102]

1 hour ago, shakes said:

and who the hell rents a private plane for what has to be a 30 minute flight at most?

 

Between that and the $10+ million home I wouldn't be surprised if 10 years from now Trae is one of those rich athletes that somehow went bankrupt.

Not true at all.  Trae's father has mentioned several times that he doesn't even live off of his NBA contract.  He uses that money to invest and uses his endorsements as income to live day to day. 

 

31 minutes ago, Wretch said:

So.... 

Now that we are pretty sure where we stand with our HC, my radar cleared up...and with all of this internal stuff coming out, my focus has shifted to our star.  I'm keeping an eye on his personality and maturity.  Could be me overthinking and overanalyzing.  It may not mean anything at all in the end...but I'm starting to get a vibe about him. 

Obviously, Trae is the franchise.  Still, we have all seen enough NBA basketball to know how the different personalities of franchise players affect the game - good and bad.  I'm not saying this is a definite thing, I'm not speculating on a specific outcome, and I'm absolutely not calling it negative.  I'm just taking notes now and sticking a pin in this for later:

• Trae goes to the front office and demands help and Schlenk scrambles to get it done
• JC and Trae clashing in 2021
  • Rumors that JC wasn't the only one (Hunter/Bogi)
• Trae reportedly putting his foot down on a Capela trade
  • Blocking(?) a move for Ayton
• Altercation with Nate during practice
  • "Injured" Trae curiously not with the team on the sideline afterwards
• Reports that coaches, players, front office people pushing Trae to take on more of a leadership role
  • ALL of us coming to a consensus regarding a desire to see on-court maturity from him
• Dejounte's comments...
  • The noise in our organization is quite different in ATL vs San Antonio
  • Deflected the Nate/Trae talk saying something to the effect of "whatever is going on between them"
• Schlenk's Trae trade talk report/rumor
  • Travis "headed to" an advisory role (relieved of duty in effect)
  • Air quotes from JC about it
• Earlier reports in December that things were TOXIC in Atlanta
  • Same report suggests that some players don't like Trae
• Trae fined for by the Hawks for not communicating and chartering the private Jet
  • Trae flying alone after the loss
• @Sothron reporting from insiders that he's very unforgiving
  • To the point of it sounding like a character flaw
• @NBASupes being left with a sour impression of him after meeting him in person

I know there is drama in every organization and every locker room.  I know very well that Trae is our franchise and I will die on that hill defending his talent.  I'm not saying what people think I might be saying.  I've ONLY put together a list here of things we pretty much already know - a lot of which is confirmed.  I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING PEOPLE... 

These are just notes.  If this were analogous to security event logs that I analyze every day, I would build correlations with this data to trigger alert conditions. 

Don't come for me.  I'm not saying anything LOL...  Just that my antennas are up, there MIGHT be a pattern, and it's worth keeping an eye on.

In the last few weeks, there has been a change in Trae on the court. He's playing tougher defense and looks like he's more encouraging towards his teammates.  He's only 24 and has to learn how to be a leader.  All the bad you listed above may be true. I hope he's learning and will grow from him. 

Growing pains to be a better leader, I hope. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Trae wasn't healthy in that series.   I'm not excusing it because it's bs but knowing Trae he wanted to start resting and getting treatment on that ankle.    I hope that was the excuse anyway.  

I think he was healthy in Game 1 and 2.  But in Game 3, he definitely did something to his ankle that limited his mobility.

To me, I think he was just highly frustrated with what Miami was doing to him. Unless he just had something that couldn't wait, he shouldn't have left his team.   This, combined with the mini blow up he had with Nate that resulted in a no-show at the game that night, that's twice he's exhibited some immaturity from a team support standpoint.

Can't be a frontrunner all the time.  That's easy to be a team guy when you're winning.  But when you're losing, your mental state will be tested the most.  The lack of a good vet on this team that can stay in Trae's ear and get his respect, is missing right now.  Looks like Vince Carter served that role when he was here. Solo as well, to a certain extent.

It would be great to have a good vet guard on this team, like a Mike Conley, that can be in Trae's ear to keep his emotions in check.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, terrell said:

Wasnt his wife pregnant at the time?

Maybe that's it.. Who knows though. He seems to be able to do anything he wants to do..

7 1/2 mos pregnant.  She had her baby around the 1st of June I believe.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, shakes said:

and who the hell rents a private plane for what has to be a 30 minute flight at most?

 

Between that and the $10+ million home I wouldn't be surprised if 10 years from now Trae is one of those rich athletes that somehow went bankrupt.

 

It depends on where he went on the plane.  Just a lot of speculation about all of this, until he clears it up . . if he even wants to clear it up. 

[Wretch]

4 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Game 2 was the game in which he had 10 turnovers, with most of them coming in that infamous 3rd quarter.  It was also the night in which Bogi got red hot in the 4th quarter.  I think he had almost 20 points in the quarter.

Trae's wife was 7 months pregnant at the time, so who knows if it had something to do with that.  We won't know unless Trae or someone in the organization talks about it.

My view on Trae, is that he doesn't necessarily WANT to be the leader of the team, especially from a rah rah perspective.  As he's says, "he just wants to hoop."  Unfortunately for him, when you make almost 40 million a year, you must show some sort of leadership abilities, whether it be on the court or off.  Most important, you must lead by example.  John and Dejounte seem like they're the verbal leaders on the team.  So Trae should take on the "lead by example" role.

Agreed and let me add my take on Trae being a leader...

First, let me say...ya'll, I will die on this hill and I am ready to argue lol. 

He can't not take ownership... He's too good.  He needs the ball too much.  He is asking for specific players.  He's very vocal about his game.  He is too engaged with opposing players and fans and the media.  He has too much fire. 

He's the franchise and he has to take ownership of it.  It's not optional.  It comes with the territory in some form.  I would add though North, that if Trae was the "quiet" type...he could just lead by example.  We know he's not though.  He's got a lot of fire and I personally LOVE IT.  By that same token though, he can't just be quiet when it's time to lead the charge.  I think he has to fully own it man.

Honestly...how can you be loud and demanding (on and off the court), and RIGHTFULLY so I have to add, but then shoulder little to no responsibility for it?  Has there ever been such a player?  (Legitimately asking as I can't think of any off the top of my head)

[JayBirdHawk]

On 1/16/2023 at 12:06 AM, NBASupes said:

Atlanta is offering two 2nds and Holiday for a rotational big that can help us

Justin Holiday ($6.2 mil) and 2nd(s) for Naz Reid ($1.9 mil) and Bryn Forbes ($2.2 mil). Saves us $2.1

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Atlantaholic said:

Don't understand why there isn't just a hard cap. I mean I understand (players don't want it) but I don't like it. 

 

A hard cap would solve nothing, and create even more problems for teams who are bad at managing talent.  Because all it would take is for a franchise to give a max contract to a guy who is just "good", and not "impactful" on a nightly basis.  It would also destabilize the mid level talent on teams. You'd see more Kent Bazemore type contracts, because in any given season, he might be the best free agent available for a specific price.

This is why the NFL is so volatile.  Teams lose very good players all the time, then forced to overpay a good, but non-star player.  Look what happened to the Tennessee Titans.  Because of the hard cap, they lost their top 2 receivers ( AJ Brown and Julio Jones ).  And they lost them because they decided to pay Ryan Tannehill big money 3 years ago.

I think out of all of the salary caps, the NBA is the best.  The hard cap is brutal in the NFL, while the unlimited cap in MLB encourages teams to either spend out of control, or cut the payroll to the bare bones.  The NBA salary cap is player friendly, while also giving the owners the option to either not go over the cap and be compensated a little for doing so, or going way into the Luxury Tax to pay and keep your own players.

[bleachkit]

4 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

A hard cap would solve nothing, and create even more problems for teams who are bad at managing talent.  Because all it would take is for a franchise to give a max contract to a guy who is just "good", and not "impactful" on a nightly basis.  It would also destabilize the mid level talent on teams. You'd see more Kent Bazemore type contracts, because in any given season, he might be the best free agent available for a specific price.

This is why the NFL is so volatile.  Teams lose very good players all the time, then forced to overpay a good, but non-star player.  Look what happened to the Tennessee Titans.  Because of the hard cap, they lost their top 2 receivers ( AJ Brown and Julio Jones ).  And they lost them because they decided to pay Ryan Tannehill big money 3 years ago.

I think out of all of the salary caps, the NBA is the best.  The hard cap is brutal in the NFL, while the unlimited cap in MLB encourages teams to either spend out of control, or cut the payroll to the bare bones.  The NBA salary cap is player friendly, while also giving the owners the option to either not go over the cap and be compensated a little for doing so, or going way into the Luxury Tax to pay and keep your own players.

Nothing is perfect, but I agree the NBA has a better model than baseball. NFL's hard cap works because the teams have so many players and turnover is natural. In the NBA where a handful of stars make a huge difference, that model probably wouldn't work. 

[MarylandHawk]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

This biggest reason Tony does not want to pay the tax is simple.  He wants his share of the tax payment by the 10 or so teams that have to pay the tax. 

10 teams were tax payers last year total ~$676 million dollars.  Divide that by the 20 non-tax paying teams that is $33.8 million. Tony is not passing up on $30+ million to pay $5 million in tax.

The luxury tax money, which is the penalty for illegally exceeding the salary cap, is collected by the NBA and then re-distributed equally among teams that did not pay luxury tax.

Not good business or basketball if you aren’t sure your team can contend for a chip and generate more than 40 million extra dollars doing so. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

55 minutes ago, Wretch said:

So.... 

Now that we are pretty sure where we stand with our HC, my radar cleared up...and with all of this internal stuff coming out, my focus has shifted to our star.  I'm keeping an eye on his personality and maturity.  Could be me overthinking and overanalyzing.  It may not mean anything at all in the end...but I'm starting to get a vibe about him. 

Obviously, Trae is the franchise.  Still, we have all seen enough NBA basketball to know how the different personalities of franchise players affect the game - good and bad.  I'm not saying this is a definite thing, I'm not speculating on a specific outcome, and I'm absolutely not calling it negative.  I'm just taking notes now and sticking a pin in this for later:

• Trae goes to the front office and demands help and Schlenk scrambles to get it done
• JC and Trae clashing in 2021
  • Rumors that JC wasn't the only one (Hunter/Bogi)
• Trae reportedly putting his foot down on a Capela trade
  • Blocking(?) a move for Ayton
• Altercation with Nate during practice
  • "Injured" Trae curiously not with the team on the sideline afterwards
• Reports that coaches, players, front office people pushing Trae to take on more of a leadership role
  • ALL of us coming to a consensus regarding a desire to see on-court maturity from him
• Dejounte's comments...
  • The noise in our organization is quite different in ATL vs San Antonio
  • Deflected the Nate/Trae talk saying something to the effect of "whatever is going on between them"
• Schlenk's Trae trade talk report/rumor
  • Travis "headed to" an advisory role (relieved of duty in effect)
  • Air quotes from JC about it
• Earlier reports in December that things were TOXIC in Atlanta
  • Same report suggests that some players don't like Trae
• Trae fined for by the Hawks for not communicating and chartering the private Jet
  • Trae flying alone after the loss
• @Sothron reporting from insiders that he's very unforgiving
  • To the point of it sounding like a character flaw
• @NBASupes being left with a sour impression of him after meeting him in person

I know there is drama in every organization and every locker room.  I know very well that Trae is our franchise and I will die on that hill defending his talent.  I'm not saying what people think I might be saying.  I've ONLY put together a list here of things we pretty much already know - a lot of which is confirmed.  I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING PEOPLE... 

These are just notes.  If this were analogous to security event logs that I analyze every day, I would build correlations with this data to trigger alert conditions. 

Don't come for me.  I'm not saying anything LOL...  Just that my antennas are up, there MIGHT be a pattern, and it's worth keeping an eye on.

 

Noted.   And definitely grounds for concern.

Having said that, I can probably name on one hand the stars that really don't have any noticeable character flaws

• Curry
• Giannis
• Jokic
• Tatum . . . haven't heard too much from him
• Morant . . he's the darling of Memphis right now

Everyone else . .  lol

• Luka made his coach walk away
• Durant dang near gave an ultimatum to fire the coach AND the GM
• Kyrie . . lol
• Chris Paul . . known a-hole personality who teammates aren't fond of, and has demanded 2 trades.
• Harden . . demanded a trade . . twice in the last 3 years
• Lebron . . he dang near runs any team he's on, and he's gotten rid of a coach before ( Blatt )

Trae's stuff looks tame, compared to those guys.

• Jimmy Butler . . multiple run-ins with teammates and coaches

[Diesel]

30 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I think he was healthy in Game 1 and 2.  But in Game 3, he definitely did something to his ankle that limited his mobility.

To me, I think he was just highly frustrated with what Miami was doing to him. Unless he just had something that couldn't wait, he shouldn't have left his team.   This, combined with the mini blow up he had with Nate that resulted in a no-show at the game that night, that's twice he's exhibited some immaturity from a team support standpoint.

Can't be a frontrunner all the time.  That's easy to be a team guy when you're winning.  But when you're losing, your mental state will be tested the most.  The lack of a good vet on this team that can stay in Trae's ear and get his respect, is missing right now.  Looks like Vince Carter served that role when he was here. Solo as well, to a certain extent.

It would be great to have a good vet guard on this team, like a Mike Conley, that can be in Trae's ear to keep his emotions in check.

If I'm not mistaken, his girl was pregnant at that time.   Tydus was born on June 2...  So April 22 to June 2 means that she was about 7 months pregnant.   At any rate.. water under the bridge. 

 

 

[Diesel]

25 minutes ago, Wretch said:

Honestly...how can you be loud and demanding (on and off the court), and RIGHTFULLY so I have to add, but then shoulder little to no responsibility for it?  Has there ever been such a player?  (Legitimately asking as I can't think of any off the top of my head)

 

yeah... MJJ.  The voice on the court.   Off the court, he speaks just like Trae does... 

[Wretch]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Noted.   And definitely grounds for concern.

Having said that, I can probably name on one hand the stars that really don't have any noticeable character flaws

• Curry
• Giannis
• Jokic
• Tatum . . . haven't heard too much from him
• Morant . . he's the darling of Memphis right now

Everyone else . .  lol

• Luka made his coach walk away
• Durant dang near gave an ultimatum to fire the coach AND the GM
• Kyrie . . lol
• Chris Paul . . known a-hole personality who teammates aren't fond of, and has demanded 2 trades.
• Harden . . demanded a trade . . twice in the last 3 years
• Lebron . . he dang near runs any team he's on, and he's gotten rid of a coach before ( Blatt )

Trae's stuff looks tame, compared to those guys.

• Jimmy Butler . . multiple run-ins with teammates and coaches

I'm seeing a distinct difference between those two groups...  How would you compare the collective ego of the first group to the second?  To be clear, they all get excited when playing and get pumped up.  I'm saying, if you were to balance those two groups on a humility scale, the 2nd group would tilt it to the floor.  2nd group is also a lot more outspoken.  

It is early for Trae.  He's a lot younger than most of these guys.  But if you had to line him up against one group or the other, on humbleness/humility/quietness, where would you put him?Y  'know what, let me shut up and back away from this...lol Before ya'll even start on me. 

I'mma throw one more stone before I go though (not related to leadership). 

So back in December, we had "rival executives" fueling rumors that Trae would ask for a trade.  Now reports are slowly bubbling up into the national spotlight that the Hawks, or at least Travis, bounced around the idea of trading Trae.  Said GM is now also curiously "relieved of duty."

K. I'm out now.  Let me get my Wretched behind back down to Lurkerville.

[macdaddy]

Kawhi's exit from the Spurs was filled with drama and then there's this:

Report: Some Clippers 'Bristled' at Kawhi Missing Games, Being Late for Flights | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report

 

[Wretch]

10 minutes ago, Diesel said:

 

yeah... MJJ.  The voice on the court.   Off the court, he speaks just like Trae does... 

[Final_quest]

3 hours ago, macdaddy said:

We can't have Huerter I'm strapped for cash.

Yeah, but why do you think guys like Ressler have tons of cash?  They make business decisions to net $40M rather than pay Kevin Huerter to ride the bench after you just committed to Hunter and DJM with Bogi and AJ Griffin as their backups.  

[Sothron]

Since people have asked me I'll just say this: I have lost some respect for Trae from hearing what I've heard from not just my sources but from what we all hear from the media and frankly from Trae's own words and actions.

We in some ways have been very blessed as Hawks fans. Our one true superstar player in living memory, Nique, is a true class act and would fall on his sword for his team, the Hawks organization and the city of Atlanta and the fans. I have met multiple NBA players either active or retired and very few are as genuine and good people as Nique is. 

His statue in front of the arena IMO is not just what he did on the court but how he carried himself and to a literal degree the Hawks franchise. That man set not just a gold standard for any future Hawks superstar but the platinum standard. He is almost impossible to follow.

Between Nique and Trae we had some good players. Deke is beloved. Hard working, classy guy. Steve Smith, SAR, Joe Johnson, Horford, Millsap even Josh Smith as much hate as he got on here. All of them were and are basically good to great people individually and did things the right way. Josh is the only somewhat dubious and that's solely from his wanting to shoot long two's or three's when he shouldn't and that's just a basketball issue NOT a team issue.

Then we get to Trae. And I try to be fair. I love that kid's talent. I love his "f***  you" attitude. I love that he genuinely wants to win IN Atlanta and make this franchise special. And then there's the generational gap. I am in my forties and Trae is not. There's a generational gap between what I consider how a leader should act and how basically all NBA superstar players 30 and under act. 

Let's just say there is a difference. Trae is not worse than anyone in that category...but he isn't really better either. @Wretchis correct that I have labelled Trae's inability to forgive as a character flaw. That is exactly what it is. The not getting on the team plane in the playoffs is a horrible look. Skipping a game because he got into it with Nate is horrible. Some of his frankly childish moments from time to time in games is a cause for concern because there's something called emotional maturity and I don't think Trae is as emotionally mature as his calendar age.

I love the kid. Don't get me wrong. He's a superstar. He is the first superstar we've had since Nique and he's absolutely demanding to be treated as such. As I mentioned above we've never had to deal with that in Hawks history. I mean EVER. So I'm worried there will be a fan pushback that's probably more critical than it should be. Trae is exactly what a modern superstar is in today's game for all the good and bad. But he shouldn't be treated more harshly as a result. He should be held accountable for things that are just frankly stupid like missing team planes or pushing another player in a live game.

[macdaddy]

7 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Yeah, but why do you think guys like Ressler have tons of cash?  They make business decisions to net $40M rather than pay Kevin Huerter to ride the bench after you just committed to Hunter and DJM with Bogi and AJ Griffin as their backups.  

That's all fine but are we a better team because of it?   Because as a fan that's what i care about.  Not collecting cash for a guy who's worth $5 billion.  

[JayBirdHawk]

24 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Since people have asked me I'll just say this: I have lost some respect for Trae from hearing what I've heard from not just my sources but from what we all hear from the media and frankly from Trae's own words and actions.

We in some ways have been very blessed as Hawks fans. Our one true superstar player in living memory, Nique, is a true class act and would fall on his sword for his team, the Hawks organization and the city of Atlanta and the fans. I have met multiple NBA players either active or retired and very few are as genuine and good people as Nique is. 

His statue in front of the arena IMO is not just what he did on the court but how he carried himself and to a literal degree the Hawks franchise. That man set not just a gold standard for any future Hawks superstar but the platinum standard. He is almost impossible to follow.

Between Nique and Trae we had some good players. Deke is beloved. Hard working, classy guy. Steve Smith, SAR, Joe Johnson, Horford, Millsap even Josh Smith as much hate as he got on here. All of them were and are basically good to great people individually and did things the right way. Josh is the only somewhat dubious and that's solely from his wanting to shoot long two's or three's when he shouldn't and that's just a basketball issue NOT a team issue.

Then we get to Trae. And I try to be fair. I love that kid's talent. I love his "f***  you" attitude. I love that he genuinely wants to win IN Atlanta and make this franchise special. And then there's the generational gap. I am in my forties and Trae is not. There's a generational gap between what I consider how a leader should act and how basically all NBA superstar players 30 and under act. 

Let's just say there is a difference. Trae is not worse than anyone in that category...but he isn't really better either. @Wretchis correct that I have labelled Trae's inability to forgive as a character flaw. That is exactly what it is. The not getting on the team plane in the playoffs is a horrible look. Skipping a game because he got into it with Nate is horrible. Some of his frankly childish moments from time to time in games is a cause for concern because there's something called emotional maturity and I don't think Trae is as emotionally mature as his calendar age.

I love the kid. Don't get me wrong. He's a superstar. He is the first superstar we've had since Nique and he's absolutely demanding to be treated as such. As I mentioned above we've never had to deal with that in Hawks history. I mean EVER. So I'm worried there will be a fan pushback that's probably more critical than it should be. Trae is exactly what a modern superstar is in today's game for all the good and bad. But he shouldn't be treated more harshly as a result. He should be held accountable for things that are just frankly stupid like missing team planes or pushing another player in a live game.

My hope is that Trae understands his role in all of this and he comes out better for it. Lead by example (since he is not the vocal type) so your teammates will ALWAYS have your back.

...and with that I am 

 

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

Kawhi's exit from the Spurs was filled with drama and then there's this:

Report: Some Clippers 'Bristled' at Kawhi Missing Games, Being Late for Flights | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report

 

Kawhi basically faked an injury for nearly season to force his way out. Trae has committed venial sins, Kawhi committed a mortal sin.