The Official NBASupes, Sothron, and theCampster Insider Thread - NBA 2022-23 Season

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Kawhi basically faked an injury for nearly season to force his way out. Trae has committed venial sins, Kawhi committed a mortal sin.

I had to look this up 

Venial Sin: (in Roman Catholicism) a relatively slight sin that that does not entail damnation of the soul

[Final_quest]

11 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

That's all fine but are we a better team because of it?   Because as a fan that's what i care about.  Not collecting cash for a guy who's worth $5 billion.  

In the short run, no.  Over time we could come out A LOT better having made this trade, though.   

For one we are able to play AJ more and he could easily end up better than Huerter.  That first round pick is highly likely to convert and after the Murray trade we needed to restock our draft capital.  We do understand that a "future" draft pick doesn't play on our team today?  Picks are a top trade asset in the league, definitely the most versatile.  If we are ever gonna land another star player, picks are the most likely commodity to have available that makes it happen. 

If you know you will have a log jam at one position is that the time to give up $40M to be perhaps slightly better?  While also giving up an opportunity to obtain the only commodity every single team in the league wants?  I still think we got a decent return for a player like Huerter.  I don't see anyone outside of star players getting a return of more than one first rounder.  

As a fan I am excited about having an extra pick to make us A LOT better, and I see wisdom in waiting to pay tax in this case.  It's not just about making the owner money.  Our assets are a lot more flexible now.  

 

[Diesel]

25 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I had to look this up 

Venial Sin: (in Roman Catholicism) a relatively slight sin that that does not entail damnation of the soul

Sin is sin...

I joke...

[bleachkit]

29 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I had to look this up 

Venial Sin: (in Roman Catholicism) a relatively slight sin that that does not entail damnation of the soul

I thought you were Catholic?

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I thought you were Catholic?

Nope

[macdaddy]

31 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

In the short run, no.  Over time we could come out A LOT better having made this trade, though.   

For one we are able to play AJ more and he could easily end up better than Huerter.  That first round pick is highly likely to convert and after the Murray trade we needed to restock our draft capital.  We do understand that a "future" draft pick doesn't play on our team today?  Picks are a top trade asset in the league, definitely the most versatile.  If we are ever gonna land another star player, picks are the most likely commodity to have available that makes it happen. 

If you know you will have a log jam at one position is that the time to give up $40M to be perhaps slightly better?  While also giving up an opportunity to obtain the only commodity every single team in the league wants?  I still think we got a decent return for a player like Huerter.  I don't see anyone outside of star players getting a return of more than one first rounder.  

As a fan I am excited about having an extra pick to make us A LOT better, and I see wisdom in waiting to pay tax in this case.  It's not just about making the owner money.  Our assets are a lot more flexible now.  

 

Well we've all been over this and over it but i stand by the fact that we had ample time to get under the LT meanwhile we started the season with Bogi out (and still not back in form) and one of the worst shooting teams in the league.  Huerter is having a career year.  I don't think there's much agreement around the league that that was a good move by the Hawks. 

[Final_quest]

7 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Well we've all been over this and over it but i stand by the fact that we had ample time to get under the LT meanwhile we started the season with Bogi out (and still not back in form) and one of the worst shooting teams in the league.  Huerter is having a career year.  I don't think there's much agreement around the league that that was a good move by the Hawks. 

For sure, and it's pretty easy for me to move forward and leave things in the past.  Main problem with trading Huerter half way through the season is he would have transitioned from a starter to a bench player.  Would his value have held?  

Glad Huerter is having success.  Glad we got Griffin.  Hope we get something really worthwhile with that pick, and I hope it's in a deal for a star player.  

[bleachkit]

25 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Nope

Ok my mistake 

[Wretch]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

 or pushing another player in a live game.

Wait...are you speaking hypothetically or did this actually happen? And forgive my dumb da dumb dumbness...but I'm really missing something here.

Are you speaking hypothetically and are you talking about a teammate?  Or you just talking about him getting into it with the opps.

If it's the latter and/or hypothetical, I don't care at all about it. If it's the former, when TF did that happen??? 

[Sothron]

44 minutes ago, Wretch said:

Wait...are you speaking hypothetically or did this actually happen? And forgive my dumb da dumb dumbness...but I'm really missing something here.

Are you speaking hypothetically and are you talking about a teammate?  Or you just talking about him getting into it with the opps.

If it's the latter and/or hypothetical, I don't care at all about it. If it's the former, when TF did that happen??? 

last game. He pushed Tyler Hero when Trae was on the ground holding his ankle and still holding onto the ball. hero tries to grab the ball and Trae pushed him. He got a technical foul. It was stupid. He shouldn't have gotten a tech IMO but he still got one. He does hot headed things like this a lot actually. Won't give the ball up because he's arguing with a ref and he gets delay of game or a tech. 

55 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Ok my mistake 

You might be thinking of myself? I am an Orthodox Christian, still not Roman Catholic but in the same ballpark I guess.

[Final_quest]

2 hours ago, Sothron said:

I love the kid. Don't get me wrong. He's a superstar. He is the first superstar we've had since Nique and he's absolutely demanding to be treated as such. As I mentioned above we've never had to deal with that in Hawks history. I mean EVER. So I'm worried there will be a fan pushback that's probably more critical than it should be. Trae is exactly what a modern superstar is in today's game for all the good and bad. But he shouldn't be treated more harshly as a result. He should be held accountable for things that are just frankly stupid like missing team planes or pushing another player in a live game.

When it comes to Trae, I agree he's far from perfect in character.  Like so many other superstars.  Wilt Chamberlain flew in a private jet after missing the team's flight all the time.  I read that he would waive at his teammates in the air some times.  Alpha dogs do not usually play nice.  

The cool thing about Trae is he is obsessed with the game.  He's gonna piss some people off at times.  Par for the course.

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, Sothron said:

last game. He pushed Tyler Hero when Trae was on the ground holding his ankle and still holding onto the ball. hero tries to grab the ball and Trae pushed him. He got a technical foul. It was stupid. He shouldn't have gotten a tech IMO but he still got one. He does hot headed things like this a lot actually. Won't give the ball up because he's arguing with a ref and he gets delay of game or a tech.

I'm not gonna fault him on this one at all.  You injure a guy you check to see if he's ok, you don't try and grab the ball.

The delay of game thing - yes. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

Ok my mistake 

I'm Episcopalian - so close.

[Atlantaholic]

4 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

A hard cap would solve nothing, and create even more problems for teams who are bad at managing talent.  Because all it would take is for a franchise to give a max contract to a guy who is just "good", and not "impactful" on a nightly basis.  It would also destabilize the mid level talent on teams. You'd see more Kent Bazemore type contracts, because in any given season, he might be the best free agent available for a specific price.

This is why the NFL is so volatile.  Teams lose very good players all the time, then forced to overpay a good, but non-star player.  Look what happened to the Tennessee Titans.  Because of the hard cap, they lost their top 2 receivers ( AJ Brown and Julio Jones ).  And they lost them because they decided to pay Ryan Tannehill big money 3 years ago.

I think out of all of the salary caps, the NBA is the best.  The hard cap is brutal in the NFL, while the unlimited cap in MLB encourages teams to either spend out of control, or cut the payroll to the bare bones.  The NBA salary cap is player friendly, while also giving the owners the option to either not go over the cap and be compensated a little for doing so, or going way into the Luxury Tax to pay and keep your own players.

Of course, but then those players went to other teams that improved. Parity in the NFL is unrivaled compared to any of the other big leagues. it's relatively rare to see a team go 3 years without a playoff berth wheras in the NBA it happens all the time and that's with a much larger playoff field. Not sure how punishing teams for not spending money inteligently is going to incentivize teams to not spend money inteligently. 

[MarylandHawk]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

In the short run, no.  Over time we could come out A LOT better having made this trade, though.   

For one we are able to play AJ more and he could easily end up better than Huerter.  That first round pick is highly likely to convert and after the Murray trade we needed to restock our draft capital.  We do understand that a "future" draft pick doesn't play on our team today?  Picks are a top trade asset in the league, definitely the most versatile.  If we are ever gonna land another star player, picks are the most likely commodity to have available that makes it happen. 

If you know you will have a log jam at one position is that the time to give up $40M to be perhaps slightly better?  While also giving up an opportunity to obtain the only commodity every single team in the league wants?  I still think we got a decent return for a player like Huerter.  I don't see anyone outside of star players getting a return of more than one first rounder.  

As a fan I am excited about having an extra pick to make us A LOT better, and I see wisdom in waiting to pay tax in this case.  It's not just about making the owner money.  Our assets are a lot more flexible now.  

 

I actually agree with this.  Schlenk was all about creating value anywhere he could. They cashed in on Kevin’s value. I prefer AJ and a 1st rounder over Kevin. If Bogi was healthy from the start like folks expected, no one would care about what Kevin was doing. 

[warcore]

Let the Kings be happy about the Kevin trade.... maybe it'll give them a false sense of security negotiating with us going forward. They're a great franchise to have a good working relationship with. 

We got AJ. Get over Kevin. 

[Wretch]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

last game. He pushed Tyler Hero when Trae was on the ground holding his ankle and still holding onto the ball. hero tries to grab the ball and Trae pushed him. He got a technical foul. It was stupid. He shouldn't have gotten a tech IMO but he still got one. He does hot headed things like this a lot actually. Won't give the ball up because he's arguing with a ref and he gets delay of game or a tech. 

You might be thinking of myself? I am an Orthodox Christian, still not Roman Catholic but in the same ballpark I guess.

Makes sense.  I missed the last game so that's why I was clueless I guess.  I love that Trae plays with fire and aggression...but the chip on his shoulder is no longer necessary.  That's beneath him now.  He has made it to the top of the mountain as an NBA player and he's at the head of the class in terms of both talent and statistics. 

He's destroying records left and right...so it's no longer a question of stats or really even improving his game - he's a legit beast on the court.  He just has to win.  If it's not a question of talent, then the best thing he can do now for wins, individually is grow up, coalesce with the team, and take ownership of it. 

Why shouldn't he?  He's the heart and soul of what we're trying to do.  He's the face of the franchise. The identity has to start with him.  If he's going to be loud and full of fire and aggression, and shoot the ball the way he does, then he's got to own the leadership out there.  Not to mention he's a point guard.  It should come naturally to him.

As it were, it will be stupidly awkward for a guy like DJM to be the leader of this team...while Trae shares token leadership and does what he wants on and off the court.  All of this boils down to maturity and honestly, that should probably come sooner than later.

[bleachkit]

7 hours ago, sturt said:

Hold up. No. Disagree. People can get fined, even if there's some honest misunderstanding on something like this. There could be more to the story. Or there might not. Let's see if someone asks Trae about it, and how he responds.

No. Teams do not just haphazardly, willy-nilly fine their superstar player. Trae did something that was a clear affront to the team, in this case not fly back with the team, thus the fine. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by bleachkit

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, Wretch said:

Makes sense.  I missed the last game so that's why I was clueless I guess.  I love that Trae plays with fire and aggression...but the chip on his shoulder is no longer necessary.  That's beneath him now.  He has made it to the top of the mountain as an NBA player and he's at the head of the class in terms of both talent and statistics. 

He's destroying records left and right...so it's no longer a question of stats or really even improving his game - he's a legit beast on the court.  He just has to win.  If it's not a question of talent, then the best thing he can do now for wins, individually is grow up, coalesce with the team, and take ownership of it. 

Why shouldn't he?  He's the heart and soul of what we're trying to do.  He's the face of the franchise. The identity has to start with him.  If he's going to be loud and full of fire and aggression, and shoot the ball the way he does, then he's got to own the leadership out there.  Not to mention he's a point guard.  It should come naturally to him.

As it were, it will be stupidly awkward for a guy like DJM to be the leader of this team...while Trae shares token leadership and does what he wants on and off the court.  All of this boils down to maturity and honestly, that should probably come sooner than later.

I'd say a combination can work.  Jordan is the prototypical example of a superstar who got a ton of mileage out of never letting that chip fall from his shoulder.  He would invent grievances to motivate him and it was a core part of what made him great.  Trae does need to mature into more of a true leader but I don't think he necessarily needs to drop the chip from his shoulder to be successful.  This is why coaches don't want their players to trash talk the other team before the game - they know that being slighted will motivate the other team and fear they will play better for it.  

As a human being, I hope Trae doesn't obsess over things like Jordan has done and use that resentment to drive himself but as an athlete some of these guys do exactly that to great success.

4 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

No. Teams do not just haphazardly, willy-nilly fine their superstar player. Trae did something that was a clear affront to the team, in this not fly back with the team, thus the fine. 

That is also how I interpret this.  It is hardly an unprecedented thing in basketball but I don't like seeing it in Trae.

[Wretch]

29 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'd say a combination can work.  Jordan is the prototypical example of a superstar who got a ton of mileage out of never letting that chip fall from his shoulder.  He would invent grievances to motivate him and it was a core part of what made him great.  Trae does need to mature into more of a true leader but I don't think he necessarily needs to drop the chip from his shoulder to be successful.  This is why coaches don't want their players to trash talk the other team before the game - they know that being slighted will motivate the other team and fear they will play better for it.  

As a human being, I hope Trae doesn't obsess over things like Jordan has done and use that resentment to drive himself but as an athlete some of these guys do exactly that to great success.

That is also how I interpret this.  It is hardly an unprecedented thing in basketball but I don't like seeing it in Trae.

So my argument is that it's not necessary. Surely he can compete and win (and has done so to great effect thus far) playing with something to prove.  For Trae though, my fear is that his chip will ultimately hinder him.  It has been a while since I watched MJ, but I don't recall him being distracted by being provoked - it only focused him more so than he already was. 

I'll stop short of saying that Trae gets distracted by provocation.  I'll just...watch him going forward.  All the same, I think we can agree that more focus is desirable to just more fire in his response to adversity.