A quick word on other games.....

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

AYYYYYEEEE WHERE @benhillboy AT?

 

Come and take your d!ck.

Warms my cold, ded heart to see Kial Lowry get banged around this game.  Jokic gave him the patented, Serbian bear slap to the wrist to strip the ball a few minutes ago.  Love it. 

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, kg01 said:

Jeff Green

Love uncle Jeff at the end telling them not to play around and seal it. Real vet.

[JeffS17]

My biggest takeaway from the playoffs this year, and especially the conference finals and finals, is that they are truly letting them play defense.  An entire season of touch fouls to drive the highest scoring averages the league has ever seen only to flip the script 180 degrees in the playoffs and let them play -- that has to be tough to adjust to as a player, but it's also the #1 reason I will continue to promote eFG% as the better indicator of playoff success over TS%.  Gotta make shots in the playoffs and the fouls that you get in the regular season do not translate.  The big picture fallacy of number crunching and citing a bunch of regular season stats is that the playoffs are truly a different game being played.

[macdaddy]

11 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

My biggest takeaway from the playoffs this year, and especially the conference finals and finals, is that they are truly letting them play defense.  An entire season of touch fouls to drive the highest scoring averages the league has ever seen only to flip the script 180 degrees in the playoffs and let them play -- that has to be tough to adjust to as a player, but it's also the #1 reason I will continue to promote eFG% as the better indicator of playoff success over TS%.  Gotta make shots in the playoffs and the fouls that you get in the regular season do not translate.  The big picture fallacy of number crunching and citing a bunch of regular season stats is that the playoffs are truly a different game being played.

Well the conspiracy theorist in me says this is the case only because Miami is there.  But at least they aren't getting to the line like crazy on the offensive end and allowed to assault on the defensive end so I'd say it's been fair for the most part.  Other than the fact that they are built to win a battle where they can play super physical.  Denver is doing great in that regard too though.   

If the calls were going like regular season then i think it's a Denver sweep. 

[AHF]

Jokic averaged 6 FTA/gm in the regular season.  In the pre-Finals playoffs, he averaged 7 FTA/gm.  In the Finals, he is averaging 9.3 FTA/gm.  

In the regular season, Denver averaged 22.4 FTA/gm.  In the Finals, they are averaging....23 FTA/gm.

Denver has 22 more points from the free throw line than Miami in the series.

Denver has scored 21 more points overall than Miami.

So the series +1 point to Miami overall without free throws but +21 to Denver with free throws and Denver is up 2-1.  But we are supposed to pretend like free throws aren't important? 

Why are we looking to ignore the impact of free throws? 

[JeffS17]

40 minutes ago, AHF said:

Jokic averaged 6 FTA/gm in the regular season.  In the pre-Finals playoffs, he averaged 7 FTA/gm.  In the Finals, he is averaging 9.3 FTA/gm.  

In the regular season, Denver averaged 22.4 FTA/gm.  In the Finals, they are averaging....23 FTA/gm.

Denver has 22 more points from the free throw line than Miami in the series.

Denver has scored 21 more points overall than Miami.

So the series +1 point to Miami overall without free throws but +21 to Denver with free throws and Denver is up 2-1.  But we are supposed to pretend like free throws aren't important? 

Why are we looking to ignore the impact of free throws? 

I mean, that is such a wildly reductive take you've made here that I'm surprised you would make it...you're usually more thoughtful with how you present statistics.

And you've pretty much missed the entire point of my post.  The free throws being awarded in the playoffs are a completely different variety than the free throws awarded in the regular season -- that is the nuance of using stats to support arguments without watching the games (not an accusation, just that you can only glean that from watching the games).  So when we praise "getting to the line" as a skill in the regular season, it's not always something that will translate to the playoffs.  Obviously Trae is the premier example of this: how many times did we see him get stuffed at the rim this post season looking for driving bump fouls?  Only to be incredulous at the no-whistle because he had been getting it all year.  Gotta make shots in the playoffs (or be able to force more black and white fouls) when more physicality is allowed

[AHF]

7 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

I mean, that is such a wildly reductive take you've made here that I'm surprised you would make it...you're usually more thoughtful with how you present statistics.

And you've pretty much missed the entire point of my post.  The free throws being awarded in the playoffs are a completely different variety than the free throws awarded in the regular season -- that is the nuance of using stats to support arguments without watching the games (not an accusation, just that you can only glean that from watching the games).  So when we praise "getting to the line" as a skill in the regular season, it's not always something that will translate to the playoffs.  Obviously Trae is the premier example of this: how many times did we see him get stuffed at the rim this post season looking for driving bump fouls?  Only to be incredulous at the no-whistle because he had been getting it all year.  Gotta make shots in the playoffs (or be able to force more black and white fouls) when more physicality is allowed

Trae’s ability to get to the line remains very important in the post-season.  He averaged 7 per game which was right on par with Jokic in the first round.  Let’s not pretend he can’t get to the line or that we don’t scratch our heads in the regular season at calls that aren’t made.  

I’m not opposed to nuance.  Looking at how reliable Trae’s scoring from the line is is a totally fair subject.  
 

My issue is you are advocating completely ignoring free throws by relying on a stat that pretends they don’t exist.  That is what makes no sense.  Free throws are critical and highly relevant in both the regular season and post-season.  If a guy can’t get to the line in the playoffs that is extremely relevant but that isn’t Trae.  He remains a league leader (not saying the top guy but among the elite) in ability to get to the line in the playoffs.

[Diesel]

My take from the Playoffs is this...

 

3pters are important, but sometimes, you need a player who can just go get it...

Boston had all those great three point shooters, but nobody who could just go get it when they needed it. 

[Gray Mule]

FREE THROWS!!  The reason they are called free throws.  You get to shoot them without any defense trying to stop you!  (Free from defensive pressure).

 A slam dunk!  Wow!  Two points!  Two made free throws.  What happened?  I wasn't watching...  

Reaction seems to be so different, yet they count the same.  Please!  Make your free throws!!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

19 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

My biggest takeaway from the playoffs this year, and especially the conference finals and finals, is that they are truly letting them play defense.  An entire season of touch fouls to drive the highest scoring averages the league has ever seen only to flip the script 180 degrees in the playoffs and let them play -- that has to be tough to adjust to as a player, but it's also the #1 reason I will continue to promote eFG% as the better indicator of playoff success over TS%.  Gotta make shots in the playoffs and the fouls that you get in the regular season do not translate.  The big picture fallacy of number crunching and citing a bunch of regular season stats is that the playoffs are truly a different game being played.

 

Imagine being the only pro league that tightens up its rules, just because it's the playoffs. 

That would be like baseball having a smaller strike zone in the playoffs, or NFL refs not calling pass interference calls in the playoffs, that are frequently called in the regular season.  It gives the refs way too much power over the game.  They can easily manipulate games with the no-calls.

It also means that you can't have players on your team that's not mentally tough.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

14 hours ago, Diesel said:

My take from the Playoffs is this...

 

3pters are important, but sometimes, you need a player who can just go get it...

Boston had all those great three point shooters, but nobody who could just go get it when they needed it. 

 

Tatum was the guy who could "go get it".  Brown can too, at times.  When Tatum got hurt in Game 7, Brown became the main guy, but failed.  And the others couldn't make shots.

[Diesel]

11 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Tatum was the guy who could "go get it".  Brown can too, at times.  When Tatum got hurt in Game 7, Brown became the main guy, but failed.  And the others couldn't make shots.

I don't blame the series on Tatum getting hurt in game 7.  Sure, it's terrible that he got hurt but that's not where the blame goes.   The blame goes that you guys are head and shoulders better than Miami and they took you to a game 7.... and you barely got into that.... they should have closed you out in 6. 

There were moments in that series, where Tatum just didn't show up.   He's not the guy who can go get it.   He's the frontrunner.   He looks good at time.  He gives you flashes of a guy who can go get it but he doesn't always get up for the bell.   The bell sounds and he's still down.    The one thing to admire about Brown is that he has "that dog" in him.   He is not as talented as Tatum.  But I saw him outworking Tatum throughout their playoff Journey.   Tatum has uber talent, but I don't know if he has a killer instinct about him.   He doesn't have a Mamba mentality.  He's not a dog... so you rely on his talent and in the thick of the fight, you're looking for him.  That's going to always be a problem until he fixes it. 

Boston hides a lot based on the success of their top two.  Guys like White and Smart can "eat" easier because defenses don't gameplan for them.  What Miami figured out is that if we put the ball into Brown's hands and isolate Tatum, we will win.  This went along with everybody else missing 3 pters.   Boston didn't have the guy who could go get it.    

Miami did the same to Trae in 2022.  Isolated Trae.. made "the others" have to beat them.  The way our offense was set up, it wasn't going to happen.. especially with no Clint and no JC.  Love Kev but they put Kev in the same position that Brown was in... and Kev was spastic with the ball in his hands and forced to run the offense.   The only thing that worked for us was Hunter.   Hunter was left so wide open that he had to score.  But Spoelstra knew that Hunter couldn't get nobody else going. 

That's my concern about going out and getting Brown. I don't know if it's a championship move.   Not because he's turnover prone, that can be fixed.   He's inefficient and not the type of player to get others going.   The reason we crushed Miami in the playin is because we limited them to 1 shot and we had two guys who could run the offense.  

 

 

 

 

 

[benhillboy]

On 6/7/2023 at 10:55 PM, Spud2nique said:

AYYYYYEEEE WHERE @benhillboy AT?

 

Come and take your d!ck.

Huh?!  Sometimes I wonder about you spud.  You on medication?

 

Seriously though it ain’t over till it’s over. heat better make something shake tonight tho.

Jimmy scoring on Murray while playing good defense on him in spots was supposed to be a thing.  It’s not lol.  His 113 to 124 rating in the series is flat out abysmal.  He and Bam’s nonexistent range shooting and space creation going to do them in again it looks like along with poor size depth.  

I’ve always been indifferent to Murray but I won’t utter a bad word toward him ever again. His improvement defensively and on the glass was all Joker needed.  That and Braun’s apparent coming out party.

Ultimately losing to Jokic certainly isn’t anything to be embarrassed about.  Mutherf&@ker’s impact is damn near omnipotent.  It’s amazing he turned Aaron Gordon from a defensively unaware dunker to a super efficient two-way front court mate.  
 

I’m slick tired of watching him already.  You can tell he’s bored with a league that will never catch up to his acumen.  How can he take many in the NBA community seriously when they actually think Embiid is in his class?  In a couple years he’ll be 30, probably making plays telepathically at that point on some Professor X sh*t.  There’s simply no answer for his shooting touch and height-vision combo.  Basketball fans should rejoice that he took his conditioning seriously.  Ton of credit to Malone and staff for developing the closest thing to Wilt.

Edited June 9, 2023 by benhillboy

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

I don't blame the series on Tatum getting hurt in game 7.  Sure, it's terrible that he got hurt but that's not where the blame goes.   The blame goes that you guys are head and shoulders better than Miami and they took you to a game 7.... and you barely got into that.... they should have closed you out in 6. 

There were moments in that series, where Tatum just didn't show up.   He's not the guy who can go get it.   He's the frontrunner.   He looks good at time.  He gives you flashes of a guy who can go get it but he doesn't always get up for the bell.   The bell sounds and he's still down.    The one thing to admire about Brown is that he has "that dog" in him.   He is not as talented as Tatum.  But I saw him outworking Tatum throughout their playoff Journey.   Tatum has uber talent, but I don't know if he has a killer instinct about him.   He doesn't have a Mamba mentality.  He's not a dog... so you rely on his talent and in the thick of the fight, you're looking for him.  That's going to always be a problem until he fixes it. 

Boston hides a lot based on the success of their top two.  Guys like White and Smart can "eat" easier because defenses don't gameplan for them.  What Miami figured out is that if we put the ball into Brown's hands and isolate Tatum, we will win.  This went along with everybody else missing 3 pters.   Boston didn't have the guy who could go get it.    

Miami did the same to Trae in 2022.  Isolated Trae.. made "the others" have to beat them.  The way our offense was set up, it wasn't going to happen.. especially with no Clint and no JC.  Love Kev but they put Kev in the same position that Brown was in... and Kev was spastic with the ball in his hands and forced to run the offense.   The only thing that worked for us was Hunter.   Hunter was left so wide open that he had to score.  But Spoelstra knew that Hunter couldn't get nobody else going. 

That's my concern about going out and getting Brown. I don't know if it's a championship move.   Not because he's turnover prone, that can be fixed.   He's inefficient and not the type of player to get others going.   The reason we crushed Miami in the playin is because we limited them to 1 shot and we had two guys who could run the offense.  

 

 

This is a very good post Diesel.

[benhillboy]

The best Jimmy Butler defenders in the league I think were/ are Wes Matthews and Jae Crowder (fellow Marquette guys, ironically on the same team that Butler eliminated in Round 1.  Crowder’s minutes were suspect but hey). They literally fight him over some beefs they had in college lol.  I saw Butler once smack into Matthews trying to make a cut, he slick got a concussion.

Denver has done an excellent job as a team not biting on his fakes and hezis (and covering all his aforementioned cuts). He usually has 11 attempts in one game, that’s for the series smh.

Edited June 9, 2023 by benhillboy

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, benhillboy said:

omnipotent

it ain’t over technically but it’s over. I’m just wondering if you’re gonna bow out like a man or a lil … I digress 

[Spud2nique]

54 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

The best Jimmy Butler defenders in the league I think

Is Trae. 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, benhillboy said:

The best Jimmy Butler defenders in the league I think were/ are Wes Matthews and Jae Crowder (fellow Marquette guys, ironically on the same team that Butler eliminated in Round 1.  Crowder’s minutes were suspect but hey). They literally fight him over some beefs they had in college lol.  I saw Butler once smack into Matthews trying to make a cut, he slick got a concussion.

Denver has done an excellent job as a team not biting on his fakes and hezis (and covering all his aforementioned cuts). He usually has 11 attempts in one game, that’s for the series smh.

What I've noticed about Butler is that if he doesn't have it going, he separates himself from the game.  If the ball comes to him, he quickly gets rid of it.  I don't tihnk it's always about who is defending him, I believe it's about if he can go in his trick bag and make somebody fall for it.  When people play him straight up and don't fall for the trick bag, you watch Jimmy go into the shell.  Announcers are like " Butler has to get something going."  And Butler is continuously getting rid of the ball.  He needs that like Trae needs a long three pointer. 

[kg01]

The defense by this DEN unit without Jokic is making me swoon.

Watching Bum Adebayo unable to body KCP in the post is just icing. 

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

What I've noticed about Butler is that if he doesn't have it going, he separates himself from the game.  If the ball comes to him, he quickly gets rid of it.  I don't tihnk it's always about who is defending him, I believe it's about if he can go in his trick bag and make somebody fall for it.  When people play him straight up and don't fall for the trick bag, you watch Jimmy go into the shell.  Announcers are like " Butler has to get something going."  And Butler is continuously getting rid of the ball.  He needs that like Trae needs a long three pointer. 

What you're describing is a frontrunner, my guy. 

[kg01]

"Whycome Gave Vinsent and Cody Martin ain't makin' 30 points no mo?" - Heet fans