With the #15 pick in the 2023 NBA Draft, the Hawks select.....

[Packfill]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Ratings of note in Sam Vecenie’s top 100:

10.  Derek Lively

11.  Kobe Bufkin

12.  Bilal Coulibaly

13.  Leonard Miller

14.  Cason Wallace

15.   Jalen Hood-Schifino

16.  Grady d*ck

17.  Kris Murray

18.  Jordan Hawkins

19.  Brice Sensabaugh

20.  Dariq Whitehead 

I am a little surprised that Bufkin and Miller are so high.  Miller intrigues me.

[KB21]

To add, he has his own tiers for the players.  I will focus on Tiers 4 and 5 for the Hawks purpose.  Tier 4 is Starter/All Star Tools swing.  Tier 5 is rotation player/upside swing.

Tier 4 goes from his 10th rated player to his 16th rated player.  Teir 5 goes from 17 to 36.  Lots of players in tier 5.  

Teir 4 players: Derek Lively, Kobe Bufkin, Bilal Coulibaly, Leonard Miller, Cason Wallace, Jalen Hood-Schifino, and Grady d*ck.

Teir 5 players: Kris Murray, Jordan Hawkins, Brice Sensabaugh, Dariq Whitehead, Noah Clowney, Nick Smith Jr, Jamie Jacquez Jr, Olivier-Maxence Prosper, Jett Howard, Keyonte George, Colby Jones, Ben Sheppard, Andre Jackson, Kobe Brown, Marcus Sasser, Sidy Cissoko, Julian Phillips, Rayan Rupert, Maxwell Lewis, and GG Jackson.

[bird_dirt]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

To add, he has his own tiers for the players.  I will focus on Tiers 4 and 5 for the Hawks purpose.  Tier 4 is Starter/All Star Tools swing.  Tier 5 is rotation player/upside swing.

Tier 4 goes from his 10th rated player to his 16th rated player.  Teir 5 goes from 17 to 36.  Lots of players in tier 5.  

Teir 4 players: Derek Lively, Kobe Bufkin, Bilal Coulibaly, Leonard Miller, Cason Wallace, Jalen Hood-Schifino, and Grady d*ck.

Teir 5 players: Kris Murray, Jordan Hawkins, Brice Sensabaugh, Dariq Whitehead, Noah Clowney, Nick Smith Jr, Jamie Jacquez Jr, Olivier-Maxence Prosper, Jett Howard, Keyonte George, Colby Jones, Ben Sheppard, Andre Jackson, Kobe Brown, Marcus Sasser, Sidy Cissoko, Julian Phillips, Rayan Rupert, Maxwell Lewis, and GG Jackson.

Yeah, but how does that translate into @NBASupes tiers? That’s what we’re really waiting on. 

[Blunt91]

Here is Jonathan Givony's latest mock.  He has some interesting info on the Hawks draft workouts.

 

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/37838983/2023-nba-mock-draft-why-scoot-henderson-play-no-2

 

 

 

[KB21]

1 minute ago, Blunt91 said:

Here is Jonathan Givony's latest mock.  He has some interesting info on the Hawks draft workouts.

 

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/37838983/2023-nba-mock-draft-why-scoot-henderson-play-no-2

 

 

 

These people really should stop with the what's Trae's future in Atlanta narrative.  He's not going anywhere!

[JayBirdHawk]

Yay or Nay?

 

 

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Yay or Nay?

 

 

Yes.  I think we can get similar talent at 21 that we can get at 15, and it may net a future first round pick.

[Blunt91]

1. San Antonio Spurs

Victor Wembanyama
Metropolitans 92
PF/C
Age: 19.4

 

While his fellow prospects in the first round play the cat-and-mouse game by conducting one-on-zero workouts, Wembanyama continues to test himself, now going up against Monaco -- one of the best teams in European basketball. Down 2-0 and with his team clearly overmatched talent-wise, Wembanyama still found a way to have a productive showing in Game 2, posting 19 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks and 2 steals. His stellar defense was on full display with the way he put a lid on the rim, hedged ball screens out to half court and switched onto smaller players on the perimeter. The Spurs dispatched their medical staff to France last week to conduct their due diligence, and with that successfully out of the way, everything looks on track for him to be the No. 1 pick and start restoring the proud franchise to relevance. -- Jonathan Givony

---

2. Charlotte Hornets

Brandon Miller
Alabama
SF
Age: 20.5

Scoot Henderson helped his standing in Charlotte with a highly impressive workout this past weekend in front of the Hornets' front office and coaching staff. He showed an impressive level of conditioning, intensity, explosiveness and shot-making that portend good things for him later. Still, many signs continue to point toward Miller being the pick at No. 2, both due to his clean roster fit as much as the front office's belief in his long-term talent. The Hornets have conducted due diligence in Tuscaloosa to help ease concerns around Miller's involvement in the Jan. 6 fatal shooting of Jamea Jonae Harris. The possibility of New Orleans (who are fans of Henderson) offering Brandon Ingram in a trade for the No. 2 pick could shake things up potentially on draft night, but it's still too early to say whether that is a realistic possibility. -- Givony

---

3. Portland Trail Blazers

Scoot Henderson
G League Ignite
PG
Age: 19.3

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The Trail Blazers are doing their due diligence by bringing in Amen and Ausar Thompson, Henderson, Cam Whitmore and others for private workouts. Portland will continue to explore trade opportunities until it is on the clock for this pick, but it seems the team will be pleased to select either Miller or Henderson. Henderson's outstanding workout in Charlotte indicates he's very much in play at No. 2 despite Miller continuing to be the favorite there. Miller will be in Portland soon to also make his case for being the No. 3 pick. -- Givony

---

4. Houston Rockets

Amen Thompson
Overtime Elite
PG/SG
Age: 20.3

At this point, Amen Thompson and Whitmore are the two names circulating as leading candidates at No. 4. One potential factor in the decision is James Harden's potential return to the Rockets -- a situation that rival teams have come to view as increasingly uncertain in recent weeks. Provided they can give Thompson the requisite role and runway to develop and realize his tantalizing upside, Houston can certainly justify a major swing here by betting on the mix of elite athleticism, size and playmaking skills that could turn him into a star and the type of dynamic point guard its roster lacks. Thompson has received strong reviews from teams on the workout circuit and it appears the questions surrounding his jump shot won't preclude him from hearing his name called early. -- Jeremy Woo

---

5. Detroit Pistons

Cam Whitmore
Villanova
SF
Age: 18.9

Whitmore is getting looks at No. 4 with Houston, but many around the league believe Detroit is a natural landing spot for him considering the Pistons' roster and the significant upside he offers. Whitmore is working out for teams across the top 10 -- including Portland, Houston, Detroit, Orlando, Indiana and Utah -- and making a strong impression with his shooting and explosiveness. His workout in Detroit on Monday gave him an opportunity to show the Pistons brass an opportunity to envision how he would fit in a backcourt with Cade Cunningham and Jaden Ivey. Some trade scenarios could be in play for the Pistons with the No. 31 pick as well, for example, packaging Bojan Bogdanovic for Tim Hardaway Jr. and the No. 10 pick, sources tell ESPN. -- Givony

---

6. Orlando Magic

Ausar Thompson
Overtime Elite
PG/SG
Age: 20.3

This Magic pick represents a key pivot point in the lottery with them weighing a wide range of candidates. While Ausar Thompson may hear his name called a couple picks after his twin brother, some teams prefer his scoring aggressiveness, defensive mindset and his comfort level without the ball. This is a difficult spot for Orlando, with none of the options a perfect fit alongside franchise players Paolo Banchero and Franz Wagner. The Magic could be justified in simply taking the biggest upside swing available here, then making a safer choice at No. 11. If Orlando goes a different direction, Thompson isn't expected to fall much further, as he's thought to be strongly in play for Indiana and Washington, as well. -- Woo

---

7. Indiana Pacers

Jarace Walker
Houston
PF
Age: 19.7

Walker is believed to have a narrow draft range consisting of Detroit at No. 5, Indiana at No. 7 and Utah at No. 9. He will also conduct a workout with Orlando that opens up opportunities for him at the No. 6 and No. 11 picks. With the Pacers believed to be actively seeking an explosive, defensive-minded power forward who can bring a physical presence and multi-positional versatility, Walker is a natural fit for their roster composition, standing 6-foot-8, 249 pounds with 7-2½ wingspan. The team has plenty of shot-creation and scoring with Tyrese Haliburton and Buddy Hield, but struggled defensively and on the glass due to their lack of physicality. Walker, Ausar Thompson (working out later this week) and Taylor Hendricks are said to be their top-two candidates. -- Givony

---

8. Washington Wizards

Anthony Black
Arkansas
PG/SG
Age: 19.3

The Wizards are believed to be primarily eyeing guards at this spot, as they enter what could be a full rebuild under new boss Michael Winger. Black's playmaking ability, defensive qualities and untapped upside as a 6-7 lead guard could make him an excellent player to build around, and he'd enter a situation that would give him plenty of room to grow into a high-usage role. NBA teams are constantly searching for the type of two-way perimeter versatility Black offers, and his range appears to begin as high as No. 6 with Orlando. He's conducted or will conduct workouts for teams throughout the lottery, including Houston, Utah and Dallas in addition to the Magic. -- Woo

---

9. Utah Jazz

Taylor Hendricks
UCF
PF
Age: 19.5

The Jazz appear to be in a similar position as Indiana, seeking a gifted forward with defensive versatility to pair with leading scorer Lauri Markkanen, with the top two candidates being Hendricks and Walker. Filling that need with their first pick, and then focusing on adding backcourt depth with their second pick, makes sense considering the number of guards and wings expected to be available later in the draft. However, that plan could change if Black happens to fall here. He's believed to be high on the team's draft board. -- Givony

---

10. Dallas Mavericks

Dereck Lively II
Duke
C
Age: 19.3

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This Dallas pick is believed to be available in trade scenarios, creating a pivot point where a range of players and teams could wind up in play at No. 10. Lively appears to have helped himself quite a bit in the pre-draft process, having shown improvement over the course of the year at Duke, and now recontextualized himself as the highest upside true center in a draft that's unusually thin at his position. His range is believed to begin with the Mavericks -- he could provide a long-term answer at center -- and his responsibilities would be made easy by playing alongside Luka Doncic. The Magic (No. 11), the Thunder (No. 12) and Hawks (No. 15) are also believed to have interest, and it seems unlikely Lively falls too far out of the lottery, if at all. -- Woo

---

11. Orlando Magic (via Chicago)

Gradey d*ck
Kansas
SG/SF
Age: 19.5

d*ck's draft range appears to be a little wider than initially anticipated, as he'll be conducting workouts with Orlando for this slot, as well as Oklahoma City (No. 12) and Toronto (No. 13). The pre-draft process, which mostly revolves around one-on-zero workouts in d*ck's case, doesn't necessarily capture his strengths: confidence, competitiveness and feel for the game, which are difficult to measure in drills. Nonetheless, getting a shooter of d*ck's caliber would be a significant boon for the Magic, who have plenty of opportunity on the wing and need to add as much floor spacing as they can to amplify the strengths of franchise stalwarts Banchero and Wagner. Should d*ck slide past Orlando, Toronto is believed to be a strong suitor. -- Givony

---

12. Oklahoma City Thunder

Kobe Bufkin
Michigan
PG/SG
Age: 19.7

Bufkin has quietly gathered a good deal of interest in the pre-draft process and is being extremely selective where he works out, with a lottery selection potentially on the horizon. The Thunder have plenty of young guards and can go in a number of directions at No. 12, but Oklahoma City rarely hesitates to grab the best talent on the board, and Bufkin has built a strong case to be the first player drafted among a large group of guards jockeying for position. He's a name to watch over the next week, with room to potentially rise higher. Washington and Utah appear to be candidates to select guards at No. 8 and No. 9. -- Woo

---

13. Toronto Raptors

Jalen Hood-Schifino
Indiana
PG/SG
Age: 19.9

Many around the NBA are curious to see if the Raptors will move up on draft night, as there's a sense that they could be significant trade players depending on how aggressively they want to get involved with the likes of Pascal Siakam and others. Should they stand pat, targeting a guard with considerable upside as a shot-creator -- such as Hood-Schifino -- makes sense. However, adding shooting to this roster will also be another significant priority. There's a big glut of players in this range (d*ck, Bufkin, Cason Wallace, Nick Smith Jr., Jett Howard), but Hood-Schifino's terrific physical traits along with the potential star power he offers could make him very attractive at this slot. -- Givony

---

14. New Orleans Pelicans

Bilal Coulibaly
Metropolitans 92
SG/SF
Age: 18.8

Coulibaly's strong performances in the playoffs alongside Wembanyama have helped to further solidify him as a player with a real lottery argument. Despite his unavailability to work out for teams, his stock appears to be in a good place. The Jazz and Thunder both sent decision-makers to Monaco this week to take another look at Coulibaly, where he bounced back from a difficult first game in the Pro A finals with a strong performance in Game 2. His physical tools, playmaking potential and two-way upside present a nice developmental bet for any type of roster construction. The Pelicans should have quite a few options at this slot, depending on which players fall here, and should be in position to deepen their perimeter options regardless. -- Woo

---

15. Atlanta Hawks

Cason Wallace
Kentucky
PG/SG
Age: 19.5

Wallace is a player with one of the biggest draft ranges of any prospect in the class, starting with Washington, Utah and Dallas in the top 10 and continuing through the late teens depending on how the night evolves. Atlanta hasn't had an easy time getting players into its building, as approximately 20 prospects strongly feel they will be selected in the lottery and a significant number of those insist on conducting one-on-zero workouts that are normally reserved for top picks. The Hawks' relatively crowded roster and uncertain direction moving forward makes it difficult to project how many minutes will be available for younger players in the short-term, which has complicated their sales pitch. A tough, defensive-minded combo guard such as Wallace, who can operate in various lineups, could make sense in either their present situation or a future one depending on how the franchise proceeds with Trae Young. -- Givony

[sturt]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Yay or Nay?

 

 

 

If

(1) we have no good trade on the table to upgrade a rotation spot w/ #15+Player X (... first option not available), and

(2) Cason Wallace, Derek Lively, and Bilal Coulibaly are all gone (as well as Anthony Black, which at this point appears to be a given)... so the best perimeter PG defenders are gone, and the best perimeter wing defender is gone, and the best rim protector is gone...

Then

Yes, trade back. I like the possibility that we can get two of the three seniors who've impressed me... Ben Sheppard, Jaime Jacquez, Marcus Sasser.

 

 

[shakes]

Don't trade back.  We don't need 2 players and despite what the guy says there's a much better chacne of getting someone good at #15 than there is at #20.   

 

 

[marco102]

On 6/8/2023 at 12:23 PM, KB21 said:

This is why taking a guy like Whitehead makes a lot of sense, despite the running joke that the Hawks only take falling Duke players.  This kid was considered a top 5 pick a year ago.  He had a foot injury and a rough freshman season.  It's a buy low opportunity for big upside.  I'm not usually one that buys into upside/hype, but I think the Hawks are in a position where they can swing for the fences.  

I'm in on Whitehead because of his age, upside, and team fit, but I'm also in on Lively for his defensive upside. 

Whitehead, even though injured, was a good defender and spot up three point shooter. He's supposedly 6'7" in shoes with a 6' 10" wingspan, and strong frame.  The Hawks need some help on with their perimeter defense and he has the potential to do that. If he turns back into his high school, playmaking, tough shot-making self, then we have a gem.  If he just turns into a great three and d player, that also fills a need for the team. 

@Spud2nique are you out on Dariq now? 

I've been busy with work so haven't been able to get to know prospects like previous drafts.

At 15, I'd be happy with a long list of players in no order. 

1. Dereck Lively

2. Dariq Whitehead

3. Leonard Miller

4. GG Jackson

5. Nick Smith Jr. 

6. Maxwell Lewis

7. Anthony Black (not likely there at 15)

8. Taylor Hendricks (not likely there at 15)

10. Kobe Bufkin - I've watched some scouting videos of him lately and he pops on the screen.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, shakes said:

there's a much better chacne of getting someone good at #15 than there is at #20.   

Fans tend to think of players in terms of a ranked board, but from what I've observed, teams start by putting the players into tiers of approximately equal value; then, within those tiers, teams will rank the players in each pool according to their desirability so that they're making those decisions more objectively, and not making those decisions in the heat of draft night.

So, it really depends on how the front office has developed their tiers. If at #15, all of a tier is gone, and the next tier consists of 8 players, you really shouldn't have a problem moving back and acquiring some more capital. If at #15, the last guy in a tier is the only one remaining, then you really need to assess just how much of a delta there is between that tier and the next before making a decision to take that player or to swing a trade that doubles your chances of landing talent in the next tier.

[bird_dirt]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

Yes.  I think we can get similar talent at 21 that we can get at 15, and it may net a future first round pick.

If nothing else, one of them could be a draft and stash Euro. Bring him in in a year or in 2025 when we don’t have a pick. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, bird_dirt said:

If nothing else, one of them could be a draft and stash Euro. Bring him in in a year or in 2025 when we don’t have a pick. 

Anyone worth the draft n stash?

[bird_dirt]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Anyone worth the draft n stash?

Rayan Rupert!

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

Yes.  I think we can get similar talent at 21 that we can get at 15, and it may net a future first round pick.

I think at #15, as we've seen, it's more likely that a player or two or three falls from the lottery where the Hawks are in an ideal position.

[Hawkmoor]

 

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Hawkmoor

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Yay or Nay?

 

 

Well, he said IF nobody slips, even if you count all the green room invitees, that’s up to 19 players invited that have “lottery aka top 14” talent. Somebody will drop. 
 

There will be a stream of 3-4 quality players at 15 that won’t be nearly good at 21 or 22 to me.

I think Nay.

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, marco102 said:

I'm in on Whitehead because of his age, upside, and team fit, but I'm also in on Lively for his defensive upside. 

Whitehead, even though injured, was a good defender and spot up three point shooter. He's supposedly 6'7" in shoes with a 6' 10" wingspan, and strong frame.  The Hawks need some help on with their perimeter defense and he has the potential to do that. If he turns back into his high school, playmaking, tough shot-making self, then we have a gem.  If he just turns into a great three and d player, that also fills a need for the team. 

@Spud2nique are you out on Dariq now? 

I've been busy with work so haven't been able to get to know prospects like previous drafts.

At 15, I'd be happy with a long list of players in no order. 

1. Dereck Lively

2. Dariq Whitehead

3. Leonard Miller

4. GG Jackson

5. Nick Smith Jr. 

6. Maxwell Lewis

7. Anthony Black (not likely there at 15)

8. Taylor Hendricks (not likely there at 15)

10. Kobe Bufkin - I've watched some scouting videos of him lately and he pops on the screen.

I am out on Whitehead. @warcore had me liking him but I’m not in love with multiple surgeries early it reminds me of Harry Giles, even if there’s great talent he’s starting off slow. Giles was in worse shape though I think he had multiple knee surgeries way early on despite the talent.

Nick Smith Jr. and Bufkin, they got game and I’m trying to hone in but they still aren’t on my original list which hasn’t expanded.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Anyone worth the draft n stash?

Oh god, let the next Jokic search begin, we about to have some sorry fat wannabe fake Jokers step in for auditions  

 

Good lord help us as a league. It’s gonna be like this