2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[ABH]

30 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

This is where a poster lectures you about the importance of strong veteran leadership in the locker room, even if they don't contribute on the court in any meaningful way. 

Rather sign Vince back 

[Sothron]

Wes matthews is a great, great locker room guy and a veteran leader that gets accountability from people. He also is highly respected. We need that. It can't be nothing but young guys on the roster.

This isn't NBA 2k...

[RedDawg#8]

1 minute ago, Sothron said:

Wes matthews is a great, great locker room guy and a veteran leader that gets accountability from people. He also is highly respected. We need that. It can't be nothing but young guys on the roster.

This isn't NBA 2k...

Agreed. We’re building a team. We have gone from one of the youngest teams in the NBA to at least middle of the pack with Mills and Matthews.

Experience matters. Most of your contenders are going to be in the top 10 of age. This league is not for young guys if you want to win.

[Diesel]

9 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Some good points there Soth. Strong. Got me twisted. I love Siakam but not at the expense of OO and AJ and now you got me thinking all day middies in DJ and Siakam is redundant. Then again, a lot of players have lots of crossover as far as skillset on their respective teams. 

That's the thing... I have never found anything to really love about Siakam's game.  He's a high usage player.   He's awkward when you watch him.    Last Season, FVV took all of the fan hate and blame for Toronto but the truth is Siakam was sucking up all the ball.   Sure, he's a good passer for his size but not a game changer in that aspect.   His shooting from outside scares nobody.  Is he better than JC... Sure.. .when JC has a busted hand and foot.   JC is able to stretch the floor.  Still, his skillset is above average in the paint but we have players who will be in the paint.  It's hard to believe he's a target. 

[Diesel]

25 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Wes matthews is a great, great locker room guy and a veteran leader that gets accountability from people. He also is highly respected. We need that. It can't be nothing but young guys on the roster.

This isn't NBA 2k...

I was wondering what was the full impact of losing JC.  Like him or not, JC did assume the role of leader for the Hawks.  even thought he was not experienced enough to have experienced everything, guys did look up to him.   I look at the signing of both Mills and Matthews as getting some elder statesmen in here.  Guys who can have a different voice than the coach.  The coach shouldn't always have to police the lockerroom.  I don't see Popp policing the lockerroom, I don't want to see Quin doing it either.   Therefore, you bring in respected voices.   Vince and Solo were that at one time.   Now, it looks to be Pat and Wes. 

 

[JeffS17]

10 hours ago, Sothron said:

I have legit fit concerns with him. This idea you can just take guys that are good and throw them together and the sum is better than the parts just doesn't work. Siakam has no real ability to stretch a defense. DJM already lives in the mid range. Trae loves his middie as well. So does Siakam. That's simply too many guys in too little space. OO or Capela can't shoot so. Having two out of three front court guys that can't hit threes or stretch a defense is not going to work.

 

I would agree with you if Nate was still our coach.  But he's not and I don't think looking at past habits is relevant now that we have Snyder.  He couldn't be further stylistically from Nate, and the shot select will reflect that going forward.  DJ can and will space the floor from three.  Trae will space the floor with his three point shot, and he will not be taking as many middies.  Capela will not even be on the roster.  OO will likely have a respectable corner three that pulls centers away from the paint (Quin started inspring confidence in him last year).  Bey would be our starting SF and would be a massive floor spacer if this trade went through.   

 

Siakam is not a great three point shooter, but this idea that everyone needs to be able to shoot the three to run a good offense has gotten out of hand.

 

First, you only need to hit open threes at a respectable clip (~35%) to space the floor.  Obv guys like Bogi are ELITE floor spacers because you effectively have to face guard him, but that is not required by everyone.  And some guys can space the floor without a respectable three, like Giannis, because you cannot let him drive into space and he forces the defense to pack the paint -- Siakam falls into this category by the way, albeit not to the same extent as Giannis.  Being able to dominate in the low post and draw doubles spaces the floor.  Being an elite screening center with no ability to shoot at all helps space the floor.  There are tons of actions and skill sets that can help create spacing that aren't spot up three point shooting.  And our offense is going to look a lot different under Quin than what we're used to seeing the last two years.  

 

And, of course, as always, it's important to mention that our defense improves with a Siakam trade which accounts for half the game.

[JeffS17]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

.......and so it continues!

 

 

 

2 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Maybe the Hawks should look elsewhere. Toronto is known to be a difficult and/or reluctant trading partner. There has to be something else out there that could improve our team. 

I feel like the news cycles and updates are manipulating how we feel about the player.  If there was no noise about this until late August, would everyone be opposed to it?  Or supportive like a lot were initially?  I don't put any weight into all the front office / siakam camp media jockying for leverage.  I still think he would make our team significantly better.  

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

First, you only need to hit open threes at a respectable clip (~35%) to space the floor. 

So you're suggesting:

Trae, DJ, Bey, Siakam, OO. 

• Trae - Below 35%
• DJ - Below 35%
• Bey - Above 35%
• Siakam - Below 35%
• OO - Doesn't take enough threes to matter. 

So one guy who shoots above 35% in your starting lineup.   Plus, Siakam sucks up the ball.   Sounds good for ball movement, but he's actually a Ball stopper.   That's why his teammates hate him.   They didn't have a bad offensive plan.  Nurse coached them to a Chip...

[Spud2nique]

28 minutes ago, Diesel said:

awkward

Decisive, aggressive but ok..

 

28 minutes ago, Diesel said:

but not a game changer in that aspect.

Doesn’t need to be with Trae and DJ, just aggressive to the hole and bust middies and some treys, he shoots treys smoothly.

29 minutes ago, Diesel said:

It's hard to believe he's a target. 

 

[JeffS17]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

So you're suggesting:

Trae, DJ, Bey, Siakam, OO. 

• Trae - Below 35%
• DJ - Below 35%
• Bey - Above 35%
• Siakam - Below 35%
• OO - Doesn't take enough threes to matter. 

So one guy who shoots above 35% in your starting lineup.   Plus, Siakam sucks up the ball.   Sounds good for ball movement, but he's actually a Ball stopper.   That's why his teammates hate him.   They didn't have a bad offensive plan.  Nurse coached them to a Chip...

I'm not going to respond to a post so reductive that it's suggesting Trae Young doesn't space the floor, when anyone with eyes can see defenders pick him up 35 feet from the basket.

[Spud2nique]

49 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Wes matthews is a great, great locker room guy and a veteran leader that gets accountability from people. He also is highly respected. We need that. It can't be nothing but young guys on the roster.

This isn't NBA 2k...

I have wanted wiley (not Morlon) vets but I was thinking like between the ages of 28-34, he’s 37. If he stays healthy though he’s a 2 way role player and a tough one at that.

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, Wretch said:

My receipt for the record.

I have almost zero interest in adding another starter with a some-timey 3pt shot, going into his 30s, on a rental that requires a max extension.  Cap and Hunter are too rich for my tastes on it.

I want KAT and/or a cold blooded sniper in the starting lineup.

I would only trade AJ in a blockbuster star package and to a lesser extent JJ...but we have to give to get.  So to me, everything is negotiable. Anybody can get it for the right price. 

Of all the young talent, OO is the bait I'd dangle. I'd be interested in seeing noteworthy offers out there for him.

Come here… 

[macdaddy]

20 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I have wanted wiley (not Morlon) vets but I was thinking like between the ages of 28-34, he’s 37. If he stays healthy though he’s a 2 way role player and a tough one at that.

Exactly.  How many used up vets have we tried over the years.  Sure we don't know their influence in the locker room but for a roster spot you want them to at least be serviceable.  No one was really listening to Rondo (remember when he played for us) because he barked a lot of orders then came in and threw passes that hit the bottom of the backboard.  

But i'll wait and see on Patty and Wes.  I like both of them but just would  have rather had guys that still seem capable.  I hope that i'm surprised. 

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Exactly.  How many used up vets have we tried over the years.  Sure we don't know their influence in the locker room but for a roster spot you want them to at least be serviceable.  No one was really listening to Rondo (remember when he played for us) because he barked a lot of orders then came in and threw passes that hit the bottom of the backboard.  

But i'll wait and see on Patty and Wes.  I like both of them but just would  have rather had guys that still seem capable.  I hope that i'm surprised. 

I feel significantly more confident in Patty being a contributor than Wes.  If Wes knows his role is to mentor players and be an emergency option, then I'm ok with him on the roster over someone like Martin who will basically never play anyway and won't make a peep in the locker room.  Vince was exactly what I'd hope for from Wes.

[Atlantaholic]

3 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Maybe the Hawks should look elsewhere. Toronto is known to be a difficult and/or reluctant trading partner. There has to be something else out there that could improve our team. 

Hilarious you posted this right before the Wes Mathews move was posted on the thread.

Wish granted?

 

[Spud2nique]

7 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Patty and Wes. 

71 years old. Combined. Maybe it’s shelve them for 40 games and play them sporadically during the year and hope they don’t get injured before the end of April.

[Atlantaholic]

8 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Exactly.  How many used up vets have we tried over the years.  Sure we don't know their influence in the locker room but for a roster spot you want them to at least be serviceable.  No one was really listening to Rondo (remember when he played for us) because he barked a lot of orders then came in and threw passes that hit the bottom of the backboard.  

But i'll wait and see on Patty and Wes.  I like both of them but just would  have rather had guys that still seem capable.  I hope that i'm surprised. 

I legit blacked out all memory of Rondo ever being a Hawk. 

[Mikey]

11 hours ago, Sothron said:

I have legit fit concerns with him. This idea you can just take guys that are good and throw them together and the sum is better than the parts just doesn't work. Siakam has no real ability to stretch a defense. DJM already lives in the mid range. Trae loves his middie as well. So does Siakam. That's simply too many guys in too little space. OO or Capela can't shoot so. Having two out of three front court guys that can't hit threes or stretch a defense is not going to work.

 

Literally first 5 games with Quin, Onyeak was shooting 3s... he has the ability to shoot and has worked on his game that.

Trae does not love the middy at all lol. He is a three and floater guy who added an in between game. DJ shot 35% on good volume last year and did better in th playoffs. They all can shoot stop acting like these guys are ben simmons out there.

[Spud2nique]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

feel significantly more confident in Patty being a contributor than Wes.

Yup same. Wes is strong and goes hard but his body been breaking down more than Mills but both getting to that Father Time thingy.

[JeffS17]

15 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Literally first 5 games with Quin, Onyeak was shooting 3s... he has the ability to shoot and has worked on his game that.

Trae does not love the middy at all lol. He is a three and floater guy who added an in between game. DJ shot 35% on good volume last year and did better in th playoffs. They all can shoot stop acting like these guys are ben simmons out there.

Don't forget Bey who would start at SF if this trade went through.