2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, bird_dirt said:

And speaking of selling while the value is high, now would be a good time to sell Bogi. I know most don’t want him to go as he’s our best deep shooter in a shallow pool.

He's not just our best shooter, he's our most consistent shooter.   He's over 40% with it.  Good teams don't dump good shooters.  I guess this is the time to decide what we are going to be.  Are we going to be a good team that values it's best assets or will we be a team that pays more attention to the LT than what's on the floor. 

 

 

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, Marvin24Williams said:

When we trading JC? No offense to JC stans but its time to hand JJ the keys to the starting 4 spot to see what he can do 

The fact that we didn't rush to send JC away for a first round pick or even 2 2nd round picks should tell you how we really feel about JJ.  He's a fan favorite and he's talented but I don't know if he's starter material. 

 

[bird_dirt]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

He's not just our best shooter, he's our most consistent shooter.   He's over 40% with it.  Good teams don't dump good shooters.  I guess this is the time to decide what we are going to be.  Are we going to be a good team that values it's best assets or will we be a team that pays more attention to the LT than what's on the floor. 

 

 

I understand all that. I’m just saying, dude always misses significant time. 
IIRC, last offseason the team was going to trade either him or Kevin, and Kevin was traded bc Bogi was hurt and a negative asset at the time. 
He’s not hurt now, he’s not currently a negative asset. If we would ever consider trading him, now is the time to do it. He could be a piece used in something bigger. 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[sturt]

7 hours ago, terrell said:

Playin team regardless last season. With or without Kevin Huerter... Yall wanted more D they got it with the Holidays... Kev was like a free pass sign on D.. His "banner" season was helped by starting off on fire when he got there.. His numbers tailed off as the season went on.. They were playing Monk over him in crunchtime and end of games..

Think you must've been sleeping through the several discussions here preseason and the first few weeks into the 22-23 schedule... ie, JDay's defensive slide from the past 3 seasons since his peak was illuminated by almost any set of defensive measures a person chose to look at. It was argued that, though plausible, we shouldn't expect that trend to reverse at age 33.

And it didn't.

ANYTHING KVon would have given us would have been more than JDay could. Substantially.

We literally gave up KVon for NO on-court benefit.

And again, salt in that wound, that deal eventually cost us five 2nd round picks to make up something of what JDay couldn't do for us.

Them's just the facts, my friend.

[terrell]

15 minutes ago, sturt said:

Think you must've been sleeping through the several discussions here preseason and the first few weeks into the 22-23 schedule... ie, JDay's defensive slide from the past 3 seasons since his peak was illuminated by almost any set of defensive measures a person chose to look at. It was argued that, though plausible, we shouldn't expect that trend to reverse at age 33.

And it didn't.

ANYTHING KVon would have given us would have been more than JDay could. Substantially.

We literally gave up KVon for NO on-court benefit.

And again, salt in that wound, that deal eventually cost us five 2nd round picks to make up something of what JDay couldn't do for us.

Them's just the facts, my friend.

Of course I didnt like the return, but I had no problem with trading Kevin. I like him but he's not worth paying the tax it would have cost. I also don't have any issues with Tony not wanting to go into the tax level for a .500 team. Realistically, would anyone do that with their own money? It's easy to overspend when you're not accountable or it's not your money.

Edited June 25, 2023 by terrell

[Spud2nique]

6 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

....whaaaaattt!!! They gotta be lying on Morey.

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

12 hours ago, terrell said:

Did it though? I saw him on the bench ALOT in the 4th and in crunchtime.. 

Yall go overboard with this Huerter stuff.. lol

Give me Bey or Bogi anyday over Kev for this squad..

 

Hawks are 90 - 71 with Bogi in the lineup in the past 3 years.  That 56% win percentage is tops on the team within that time period.

The problem . . . is that with Bogi playing 161 out of 236 games, he's only played in 68% of the games.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

This is not fake. 

 

It may not be fake, but it's ridiculous.

Why in God's name would Cleveland even consider doing that?

Tobias is the homie ( Vol for Life ), but damn . . I wouldn't even give up Evan Mobley for Tobias.

 

At this point in his career, Tobias reminds me of 2005 Al Harrington.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, sturt said:

Think you must've been sleeping through the several discussions here preseason and the first few weeks into the 22-23 schedule... ie, JDay's defensive slide from the past 3 seasons since his peak was illuminated by almost any set of defensive measures a person chose to look at. It was argued that, though plausible, we shouldn't expect that trend to reverse at age 33.

And it didn't.

ANYTHING KVon would have given us would have been more than JDay could. Substantially.

We literally gave up KVon for NO on-court benefit.

And again, salt in that wound, that deal eventually cost us five 2nd round picks to make up something of what JDay couldn't do for us.

Them's just the facts, my friend.

 

On the flip side, had Kevin stayed, none of us would be drooling about the potential that AJ Griffin could bring to this team, which is potentially a higher level shooter/scorer than Kevin was.

I agree that we shouldn't have traded him just to get under the tax, but it may be a blessing in disguise if AJ really pans out.

[theheroatl]

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

On the flip side, had Kevin stayed, none of us would be drooling about the potential that AJ Griffin could bring to this team, which is potentially a higher level shooter/scorer than Kevin was.

I agree that we shouldn't have traded him just to get under the tax, but it may be a blessing in disguise if AJ really pans out.

As of this day I would make the switch of KH to AJ 100/100 times

[theheroatl]

6 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

So now people want Tobias Harris more than Ayton. Ayton is on the JC level of value now.

[JayBirdHawk]

4 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

It may not be fake, but it's ridiculous.

Why in God's name would Cleveland even consider doing that?

Tobias is the homie ( Vol for Life ), but damn . . I wouldn't even give up Evan Mobley for Tobias.

 

At this point in his career, Tobias reminds me of 2005 Al Harrington.

Tobias Harris has had a very long nondescript career. For a guy being paid as well as he has, he has done nothing memorable. I can't think of one thing.

2 hours ago, theheroatl said:

So now people want Tobias Harris more than Ayton. Ayton is on the JC level of value now.

He has a very large $39 million dollar EXPIRING contract.

[JeffS17]

8 hours ago, terrell said:

Realistically, would anyone do that with their own money?

Yes, honestly, I would.  If I had billions, I would pay the tax for a better team.  Of course, I would never be in that position because of ideological differences I likely have with Ressler

[JeffS17]

The biggest issue with the Heurter trade is he was on a really team friendly contract (with potential to look even better in a year or two given his development), so no matter how you cut it, it was a bad move for winning basketball.  You build contenders not only with great players but also great contracts (especially true if your owner— read: our owner, is stingy). It’s rare to have guys on team friendly contracts that arent either: rookie scale contracts, vet minimums, or elite players on maxes. We had that and traded him away.

[kg01]

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

The biggest issue with the Heurter trade is he was on a really team friendly contract (with potential to look even better in a year or two go en his development), so no matter how you cut it, it was a bad move for winning basketball.  You build contenders not only with great players but also great contracts (especially true if your owner— read: our owner, is stingy). It’s rare to have guys on team friendly contracts that arent either: rookie scale contracts, vet minimums, or elite players on maxes. We had that and traded him away.

I agree with your sentiment (cinnamon?) but, after seeing his playoff performance, I'm wondering if it ends up being 'ok' that we're forced to find alternatives in his role.

The trade, and the reasons for it, were/are bad.  But we're probably better off, in a strange way.

On a total other note, my stomach is troubled by @Sothron's patent refusal to heed my hostage demands.  He needs to get me Naz Reid if he ever wants to see this plush unicorn I stole from his man(sic) cave again.  I've already sent a tuft of rainbow fur as 'proof of life'.  What more does he want? 

[JayBirdHawk]

15 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

....whaaaaattt!!! They gotta be lying on Morey.

 

 

Ok....maybe this was Morey's response to Tobias' AgentDad. 

 

 

[Spud2nique]

24 minutes ago, kg01 said:

cinnamon?)

 Jeff a stripper now oooorrrr..  Cinnamon?

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

OK . . . so here's my take on our situation, and please poke all kinds of holes in my thought process if you disagree.   Part 1:

 

 

(1) The Hawks, barring any trades, pretty much have 7 players that are GUARANTEED to be here for the next 2 seasons:  ( Trae, Clint, John, Bogi, De'Andre, AJ, JJ ).  Kobe Bufkin will be the 8th, regardless if he's on the Hawks or in College Park.  But I can't guarantee him being on the "big" squad for his first 2 years.

 

(2) We also have 3 players ( technically 4 with Clint ), that can be offered some sort of contract extension by us this offseason.  Of the guys eligible for an extension, I only see possibly Okongwu accepting anything we offer. And if he hits RFA next summer, we'll match anything that's reasonable.  Is he a 20 mill a year player?

 

(3) DJ will definitely hit the market for any deal offered to him under 25 mill per yer.  Even if it's a deal 30+ mill a year, I think he'll decline. Some of you have indicated that he'll go back to San Antonio to play with Wemby.  So what kind of number keeps DJ in Atlanta?

The Spurs are absolutely set up to offer a big time offer to any free agent they want next summer.  DJ could very well be their guy.  And that would SUCK for us. It may also be the main reason why the front office picked Bufkin in the 1st round.

 

(4) If Bey has an outstanding shooting year, he'll be in high demand as well.  It'll be very interesting to see if Landry and the staff believe in Saddiq enough to give him some sort of extension before the start of the season.  Is he a 20 mill per year player?  And if so, does Ressler pay him that, even though we didn't win more than 40 games last season?  Hawks were 12 - 13 with Saddiq on the squad last year.

 

 

Part 1 conclusion: 

I think there's a HIGH PROBABILITY that we run this back with the same squad next season.  It makes no sense for the Hawks to just give away players, especially with the uncertainty that Murray or Bey may be lost if they test free agency next season.   Even with Collins and Capela, they have proven to be at the very least a solid defensive frontline that can give you timely offense.

What I think Quin SHOULD DO, and I was even saying this before Nate got fired, is to go ahead and throw AJ and JJ right into the fire and increase their minutes.  If we can't get our "vets" like Collins and Hunter to consistently raise their level of play, we really need to see if the kids can do it.

We already began this process with Okongwu, by playing him similar minutes to Capela.  Maybe we need to start doing the same with AJ and JJ as well.   Collins played 30 minutes a game last season.  Maybe that drops to 26 min, in order for JJ to get a solid 20 - 24 minutes a night.  The same goes for AJ. 

If these are the 10 guys we're going with, we need to see what the kids can do, and fast. There are too many critical decisions that have to be made, without us seeing if the kids can adequately fill some of these vacant holes that may be coming next summer.