Official Game Thread: Knicks at Hawks -- The Home Opener!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Trae is already keeping receipts and taking down the names of those who are with him, and those who have already jumped ship.

The one thing I know about Mr. Young, is that he ALWAYS figures it out.  And once he figures it out, he becomes a MONSTER.

In the past 2 games, Trae is 3 - 14 from 3, and a ridiculously low 5 - 21 from 2.   He has gone 2 - 14 on shots in the paint the past 2 games.  When you watch his shots on video, he's forcing a lot of things going to the rim and not finishing.  On his 3s, most are short . . except his deep 3s in which he takes his time and knocks it down.

If I didn't know any better, I'll say that Trae's struggles are simply a concentration and fatigue issue with running this new system.  He's exerting more energy and effort on defense ( even if it's not translating into stops ).  That may be affecting some of his offense on the other end. 

But I think most of his struggles on offense is trying to force the layups going to the rim and not being completely decisive on what he wants to do.  He's missing floaters and layups that he's made his whole entire life.  These are concentration issues and are fixable.  He might be better suited trying to knock down a few 15 foot jumpers ( ala Chris Paul ), if guys aren't letting him get to the rim.

Even with the turnovers, it's him just playing too fast within this offense and getting caught in no man's land driving to the basket. He just needs to slow down a bit and not play at 100 mph.  The same thing goes for Murray.  It's simple adjustments to his game that he will figure out.  He always figures it out.

When Trae breaks this mini slump, it's probably going to be dramatic and he's going to explode for 35+ points with a bunch of 2s in the paint and deep 30+ foot threes.

And it might come Sunday.

[terrell]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

That's too much for KAT. His future contract is really tough. 

That said, I still don't believe trading Murray is the answer. He makes the team legit better. 

That said, I would never trade Trae if I am targeting KAT.

The pairing is what you want. 

I love Murray's game. He does need to fully buy in but in many possessions, he does. I just rock with his game more than Trae. 

I still say, if I had to choose between the two for an upgrade that's not just a pairing piece for Trae, it would be Trae. For all of the good Trae does, it's so hard to find the right pieces to fit him. With Murray, we just need a legit #1 option scorer like Ant or Mitchell and we straight. I wish MIN would consider a trade for Trae for Ant. That's who we need. 

lol Minnesota would hangup quicker than LF could say hello.....

[terrell]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I've said this in the past, with Trae, the most important player is the 5 man. Nothing else matters. When it was him and JC, it worked because there was no defensive expectations and we had guys who can shoot around them 2-4. Of course, this didn't equal wins. 

I still say the post COVID season was fool's gold because no one has time to prepare for us after we fired LP and the 1/5 PnR was a killer. In fact, we had games with Bogi, Snell and Solo next to Clint and winning by 20+. It wasn't real. 

 

With Trae, the 2 and 3 don't matter on offense. They will never be consistent next to him. Now, I know Quin scheme is trying to fix that issue but it's not going away when it matters most, I feel.

I wouldn't waste time looking for 2s. I would just get a couple Garrison Matthews and spend no money at the 2. If I land anyone, I would love a player like Grimes who can defend and doesn't need many touches. Prime Danny Green is the ideal 2 for Trae. As long as they can make open 3s and do the little things. They can't be Cam Reddish or Ben McLemore. They gotta know how to play NBA basketball. 

3s only matter for defense and of course they have to be versatile on D Offensively, as long as they can shoot an open 3, fine. The ideal 3 for Trae is really Ron Artest but someone Herb Jones will do. Hunter is okay in this role but he's not ideal. 

4s don't matter but defense and they gotta be able to space the floor. Spacing is key for Trae. 

Everyone has to have a tad bit of PDS in them with Trae as teams can sellout to guard him.

The 5 is where Trae needs the offensive superstar. He doesn't even need them to be an elite passer. He just needs to set screens, score at will, shoot, and they must protect the paint. Rim protection isn't a requirement for Trae but paint protection is as a starter. 

I remember saying a while back that

"Im gonna be old and gray and the Hawks are still going to be looking for the right pieces that fit around Trae".. smh

That shit rhymes too.. lol

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by terrell

[terrell]

4 hours ago, Plainview1981 said:

They're not going to want to trade Trae because of the marketing factor. That was clearly the main point in getting him in the first place.

How long will that marketing shit last though if hes not making All star games, All NBA's etc????

Most people I know are already fed up.. lol

Young kids like flashy though so... Yeah

Edited October 28, 2023 by terrell

[terrell]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

It's easier to build a contender around Murray. Trade Trae for an elite #1 option. 

Contender status right then and there. 

D. Mitchell and Edwards come to mind. The issue is obviously landing them.

To where? Lakers? 

What other teams needs a Trae Young on it right now?

Cavs arent stupid. And Wolves would laugh at that offer..

[NBASupes]

Trae Young reminds me most of Josh Smith more than any Hawk ever. 

Their intelligence is through the roof. 

They both know where you and everyone should be on offense. Even as I get on him for the offense, I watched both games and the preseason and I already think he has a mastery over the offense. Smoove was like that. Smoove knew the offense better than all of our players. Al told me directly, Josh was our smartest player. Woody told the media that Smoove is the smartest player he's ever coached and Smoove HS teammate, Rajon Rondo praised Smoove for his intelligence. 

The issue with both of them is, that don't have any feel for the game on the unselfish aspects of the game. Zero. 

Horford didn't always be in the right positions but he always adjusted at an elite level and would abandon the scheme to protect a player or the team on the fly. He knew how adjust like an elite NFL route runner like Travis Kelce when Mahomes breaks because the defense is excellent on that possession and he does it a lot, possession by possession, consistently. 

Smoove can't do that. Neither can Trae. They run the offense like you drew it up but they can't adjust. Zero ability to adjust. It's easier on the ball for Trae than off the ball because of his elite abilities but off the ball, you see it clearly. Smoove was the same way. 

I don't know how Trae can have a long career without this. If you look at the guys who lack it, their careers ended as quick as their physical decline. 

Trae like Smoove have extreme gifts and they will be fine in their primes but I am not sold on Trae as a horse, long term. I don't know if you can win a title around Trae. Trae likely needs to be your #2. And #3-4 have to be really good too. Well, at least #3. #4 and #5 can be more of specialists. 

I definitely think Trae as an offensive juggernaut raises our ceiling but his issues really lower our floor. Finding players who can protect Trae but elevate Trae could be fairly difficult. 

To me, he's clearly 3rd behind Al and Nique of Atlanta Hawk players. He's ahead of Iso Joe and Murray who are in the next tier. Clearly ahead of Deke and Blaylock who are in the 3rd tier. I'll put Pistol Pete in that tier as well as Millsap. Pistol should be with Trae and Nique talent and ability wise but his struggles in Atlanta are well noted.

We never had a true superstar in Atlanta. Al is easily the best player in my eyes and a beast but he at his best is a 3rd option on a contender even though he raises the floor of your team, significantly. Nique and Trae are easily the faces and best offensive players we have had. Both are roof raisers. Both can really ball and are fun to watch when used correctly. 

[terrell]

3 hours ago, bleachkit said:

The marketing thing is so overrated. Build a winner. Stop worrying about who is "marketable." 

Its an insult to black people thinking we 'd rather have Trae than Luka just because he isnt the same race.. smfh

Ill never get over that trade.. Its like it was yeaterday when I was screaming at my television.. lol

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

it's him just playing too fast within this offense and getting caught in no man's land

This 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

Its an insult to black people thinking we 'd rather have Trae than Luka just because he isnt the same race.. smfh

Ill never get over that trade.. Its like it was yeaterday when I was screaming at my television.. lol

It's just not true. They were going to draft Luka and Tony wanted Luka but draft capital ya'll. Let's just keep it a buck. This one is on Travis and then he tried to bail on Trae by trying to trade him. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The biggest reason to start Jalen Johnson, is to be able to get Trae, DJ, and Hunter easier shots at the basket.  All 3 of them are having to work for their shots, because we don't have guys that naturally move the ball and find the open man. 

Trae still racks up the assists because he's always in attack mode and will shoot or pass with a purpose.  DJ can do it, but he's more attacking to score in the halfcourt offense, than pass.  The only other guy who passes with purpose, is JJ.  The Hawks had 28 assists last night. Trae, DJ, and JJ had 20 of them.

I get that Quin feels that he needs Bey in the lineup for spacing purposes. But Bey is a limited player on both offense and defense. He's a hustle guy, but he also needs to be set up for most of his shots.  JJ can create his own offense, and he's a good enough passer to make that extra pass to an open shooter. He's a much more versatile piece to put in this lineup, and should be starting without question.

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The biggest reason to start Jalen Johnson, is to be able to get Trae, DJ, and Hunter easier shots at the basket.  All 3 of them are having to work for their shots, because we don't have guys that naturally move the ball and find the open man. 

Trae still racks up the assists because he's always in attack mode and will shoot or pass with a purpose.  DJ can do it, but he's more attacking to score in the halfcourt offense, than pass.  The only other guy who passes with purpose, is JJ.  The Hawks had 28 assists last night. Trae, DJ, and JJ had 20 of them.

I get that Quin feels that he needs Bey in the lineup for spacing purposes. But Bey is a limited player on both offense and defense. He's a hustle guy, but he also needs to be set up for most of his shots.  JJ can create his own offense, and he's a good enough passer to make that extra pass to an open shooter. He's a much more versatile piece to put in this lineup, and should be starting without question.

I don't believe this is what will happen. I believe based on past experiences is JJ will end of doing a lot of standing around and when he gets touches, it's in tough spots for him like in the corner at the 3 pt line and when we do run actions for him. Teams will adjust and just playing the passing lanes and just protect the rim. He hasn't shown any ability to create his shot. His a slasher like Barrett but Barrett has superior ball handling and body control to get to his spots easier. 

What he's doing isn't groundbreaking, he's just doing it against backups. It's easier against backups, NBA starting 4s are superior in general. Maybe not for the Hornets or Knicks but for most, he would get cooked. Think JJ on Giannis or Paolo. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by NBASupes

[terrell]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

I think you need to not consider a Nate offense when you talk about this team.   The Nate offense was reliant on floor spacers.  That's why it worked when we had Gallo, Bogi, Kev,  Snell and JC (hitting threes).  Those floor spacers would open the floor for 1-5 PNR and PNPs...   Well, we've lost those guys with the exception of Bogi.  And Snyder is not doing that. 

Snyder is going to bring his version of a motion offense.   Or maybe some of the Mike Brey high Low motion offense.   So all these commentaries on how we need floor spacers... this and that...  That doesn't really fit with what we're doing.  That's Nate offense thinking.   That's why JJ is our most lethal player and he can't hit a three pointer.   Reason being is that he excels in a motion offense. He does the thing that our wings have to learn.. Get and go. 

What the Snyder-Brey offense requires is thinking the game.  So when I look at JJ and Bey and Dre, these are guys who have the ability to be great in a Snyder-Brey offense.   DJ too.  But they have to unlearn a lot of the things from LP and Nate. 

Trae and Bogi can adapt to anything we put them into.   You see Trae missing shots but putting up 12 assists.  Trae has to understand that his value is not putting up a 50 piece.   It would be nice but that's not what will make this team work. His value is being opportunistic in  scoring but primarily running the offense and getting everybody looks. 

Think about last night...

• Mitchell Robinson and Hartstein controlled the paint.
• Knicks were highly efficient from three. 
• Brunson could score when he wanted to...
• And at the end, we were right there and we had put up 120 points. 

 

The difference between last year and this year so far..  Last year, our offense would go for stretches not being able to score.  We are still learning the new offense but we haven't had long droughts.

I'm encouraged. 

 

 

 

Robinson.. Another player Schlenk passed on for Hubba Bubba Spellman.. smh

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

Robinson.. Another player Schlenk passed on for Hubba Bubba Spellman.. smh

Robinson wasn't going to be the fit. He didn't fit Travis scheme. 

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Trade Trae for an elite #1 option. 

HA! NEVERRRRRR!!!  

[terrell]

15 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It's just not true. They were going to draft Luka and Tony wanted Luka but draft capital ya'll. Let's just keep it a buck. This one is on Travis and then he tried to bail on Trae by trying to trade him. 

Well Ive heard different stories.. Whoever it was was a dumbass regardless..

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Robinson wasn't going to be the fit. He didn't fit Travis scheme. 

Oh yeah I forgot good Defense doesnt fit the scheme.. smh

If Mitch didnt fit, why in the hell did he think CC would?

Edited October 28, 2023 by terrell

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The biggest reason to start Jalen Johnson, is to be able to get Trae, DJ, and Hunter easier shots at the basket.  All 3 of them are having to work for their shots,

Said this after game 1.....

On 10/25/2023 at 10:17 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

.....my point still stands, I'm concerned about the front courts ability to iniate offense for others. 

I'm saying JJ should start 

Jalen's ability to get a rebound and initiate the offense will also help.

[OldTimeHawk]

good thing is the threshhold for making the playoffs is kinda low which gives us time to see who fits . This team has talent but dang they almost provide an escort to the basket..

 

[Bonkers]

11 hours ago, Bonkers said:

Jalen Brunson's career FG% is 49.2%

 

Lawd I'd love to have an efficient PG like that

I'm gonna keep quoting this so people know what a steady, efficient PG looks like

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, terrell said:

Well Ive heard different stories.. Whoever it was was a dumbass regardless..

Oh yeah I forgot good Defense doesnt fit the scheme.. smh

If Mitch didnt fit, why in the hell did he think CC would?

Capela is a movement big. Elite screen setter. Elite roller. At that time, Mitchell was working on his range and he was 235 out of college which he didn't play. Mitchell like D. Jordan really excelled in the NBA but they weren't good prospects. 

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I believe based on past experiences is JJ will end of doing a lot of standing around and when he gets touches, it's in tough spots for him like in the corner at the 3 pt line and when we do run actions for him. Teams will adjust and just playing the passing lanes and just protect the rim. He hasn't shown any ability to create his shot

The biggest difference is Jalen's ability to make reads and plays out of these situations......I trust that. There are options to what he can do once he puts the ball on the floor.