Official Game Thread: Knicks at Hawks -- The Home Opener!

[Plainview1981]

I can't stand watching Trae play. He has already peaked. 

[NBASupes]

Lol, look at this post from Hawks Reddit

Quote

And Trae is my favorite player, but he isn't f***ing Stephen Curry just because he shoots from half court.

 

Either let him dominate the ball like he used too or trade him and have some bullshit equal offense.

 

At least when he had the ball in his hands all the time, it was an easy lay-up, a dunk or a 3 majority of the time.

 

The Hawks needed a wing scorer, like a Booker, Tatum, Lavine or Jaylen Brown - not another f***ing PG.

 

It seems like the Hawks FO let the criticism of Trae from r/NBA and RealGM get to their heads.

 

The 2021-2022 Hawks had a top offense due to Trae's elite scoring and passing combo combined with floor spacing from Gallo, Bogi and Huerter, plus the finishing of Collins and Capela.

 

The offense f***ing worked.

 

It worked last year too, the Hawks finished top 7 even with Trae's down year because that slow spread pick and roll shit - your turn my turn shit worked because AJ and Bogi were snipers, then Bey come along.

 

Dejounte and Trae do too much standing around while the forwards play patty cake in the half court, yeah it looks pretty until you realize Trae and Dejounte man isn't even paying attention to them. Then their off-ball movement is bullshit. They just catch and go into a pick and roll - you might as well just let them bring the f***ing ball up.

 

Play AJ more. I much rather see AJ, JJ, Bogi and Bogi. I don't even know what the hell is the point of Deandre Hunter.

 

[NBASupes]

I've said this in the past, with Trae, the most important player is the 5 man. Nothing else matters. When it was him and JC, it worked because there was no defensive expectations and we had guys who can shoot around them 2-4. Of course, this didn't equal wins. 

I still say the post COVID season was fool's gold because no one has time to prepare for us after we fired LP and the 1/5 PnR was a killer. In fact, we had games with Bogi, Snell and Solo next to Clint and winning by 20+. It wasn't real. 

 

With Trae, the 2 and 3 don't matter on offense. They will never be consistent next to him. Now, I know Quin scheme is trying to fix that issue but it's not going away when it matters most, I feel.

I wouldn't waste time looking for 2s. I would just get a couple Garrison Matthews and spend no money at the 2. If I land anyone, I would love a player like Grimes who can defend and doesn't need many touches. Prime Danny Green is the ideal 2 for Trae. As long as they can make open 3s and do the little things. They can't be Cam Reddish or Ben McLemore. They gotta know how to play NBA basketball. 

3s only matter for defense and of course they have to be versatile on D Offensively, as long as they can shoot an open 3, fine. The ideal 3 for Trae is really Ron Artest but someone Herb Jones will do. Hunter is okay in this role but he's not ideal. 

4s don't matter but defense and they gotta be able to space the floor. Spacing is key for Trae. 

Everyone has to have a tad bit of PDS in them with Trae as teams can sellout to guard him.

The 5 is where Trae needs the offensive superstar. He doesn't even need them to be an elite passer. He just needs to set screens, score at will, shoot, and they must protect the paint. Rim protection isn't a requirement for Trae but paint protection is as a starter. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

It's easier to build a contender around Murray. Trade Trae for an elite #1 option. 

Contender status right then and there. 

D. Mitchell and Edwards come to mind. The issue is obviously landing them.

[Plainview1981]

26 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It's easier to build a contender around Murray. Trade Trae for an elite #1 option. 

Contender status right then and there. 

D. Mitchell and Edwards come to mind. The issue is obviously landing them.

They're not going to want to trade Trae because of the marketing factor. That was clearly the main point in getting him in the first place.

[bleachkit]

45 minutes ago, Plainview1981 said:

They're not going to want to trade Trae because of the marketing factor. That was clearly the main point in getting him in the first place.

The marketing thing is so overrated. Build a winner. Stop worrying about who is "marketable." 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Watching the game. Knicks size stands out with Robinson on the court. Brunson also a big small man like Lowry. They definitely bring a toughness you see instantly. 

They are made in Thibbs image... They don't even need Randle.  He's no longer the focus.   Barrett has stepped into the place that he was supposed to be.  He's like a PF out there.   But Mitchell controlled the game.    The fact that he controlled and they hit so many threes and we were still in it... We're going to get it together. 

 

[JTB]

9 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The collective groan of the crowd shook the building 

Yup! I was able to go to the game to watch in suite seats (first time for me in suite sections)….when Capela missed the easy oop to tie the game that was the biggest upset with the groans I’ve seen in person at a game in a long while from fellow hawk fans.

Then walking out talking and hearing others complain about Capela was in full effect lol….that missed shot from Capela seem to be the last thing on everyone’s mind around me….Trae and Murray were so terrible I thought that would be the topic.

 

anyways I think Quinn has some changes to make early on. 

[JTB]

51 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

The marketing thing is so overrated. Build a winner. Stop worrying about who is "marketable." 

Lol go to the games…it definitely ain’t overrated bruh!…hawks fans love ice Trae including myself but I will admit when he’s having a terrible ass game.

I don’t think he need to be traded I think we aren’t seeing the same offensive scheme we saw in preseason. Trae and Murray dribbling too much and not trusting their teammates.

[JTB]

42 minutes ago, Diesel said:

They are made in Thibbs image... They don't even need Randle.  He's no longer the focus.   Barrett has stepped into the place that he was supposed to be.  He's like a PF out there.   But Mitchell controlled the game.    The fact that he controlled and they hit so many threes and we were still in it... We're going to get it together. 

 

I agree I think it says a lot that despite our two best players playing awful …we were still in the game.

[theheroatl]

2 minutes ago, JTB said:

I agree I think it says a lot that despite our two best players playing awful …we were still in the game.

We’ve definitely not been blown out and we are staying in games with clearly only half the cylinders clicking.

When teams crowd the paint DJ and Trae struggle.. 

[bleachkit]

5 minutes ago, JTB said:

Lol go to the games…it definitely ain’t overrated bruh!…hawks fans love ice Trae including myself but I will admit when he’s having a terrible ass game.

I don’t think he need to be traded I think we aren’t seeing the same offensive scheme we saw in preseason. Trae and Murray dribbling too much and not trusting their teammates.

I like Jalen Brunson's game better. Just steady and rock solid. Trae is too much sizzle not enough steak. 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

With Trae, the 2 and 3 don't matter on offense. They will never be consistent next to him. Now, I know Quin scheme is trying to fix that issue but it's not going away when it matters most, I feel.

I wouldn't waste time looking for 2s. I would just get a couple Garrison Matthews and spend no money at the 2. If I land anyone, I would love a player like Grimes who can defend and doesn't need many touches. Prime Danny Green is the ideal 2 for Trae. As long as they can make open 3s and do the little things. They can't be Cam Reddish or Ben McLemore. They gotta know how to play NBA basketball. 

I think you need to not consider a Nate offense when you talk about this team.   The Nate offense was reliant on floor spacers.  That's why it worked when we had Gallo, Bogi, Kev,  Snell and JC (hitting threes).  Those floor spacers would open the floor for 1-5 PNR and PNPs...   Well, we've lost those guys with the exception of Bogi.  And Snyder is not doing that. 

Snyder is going to bring his version of a motion offense.   Or maybe some of the Mike Brey high Low motion offense.   So all these commentaries on how we need floor spacers... this and that...  That doesn't really fit with what we're doing.  That's Nate offense thinking.   That's why JJ is our most lethal player and he can't hit a three pointer.   Reason being is that he excels in a motion offense. He does the thing that our wings have to learn.. Get and go. 

What the Snyder-Brey offense requires is thinking the game.  So when I look at JJ and Bey and Dre, these are guys who have the ability to be great in a Snyder-Brey offense.   DJ too.  But they have to unlearn a lot of the things from LP and Nate. 

Trae and Bogi can adapt to anything we put them into.   You see Trae missing shots but putting up 12 assists.  Trae has to understand that his value is not putting up a 50 piece.   It would be nice but that's not what will make this team work. His value is being opportunistic in  scoring but primarily running the offense and getting everybody looks. 

Think about last night...

• Mitchell Robinson and Hartstein controlled the paint.
• Knicks were highly efficient from three. 
• Brunson could score when he wanted to...
• And at the end, we were right there and we had put up 120 points. 

 

The difference between last year and this year so far..  Last year, our offense would go for stretches not being able to score.  We are still learning the new offense but we haven't had long droughts.

I'm encouraged. 

 

 

 

[Diesel]

18 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I like Jalen Brunson's game better. Just steady and rock solid. Trae is too much sizzle not enough steak. 

Brunson is underappreciated.  He is a strong scoring machine.  He's very similar to young Lowry except he can get to the basket when he wants to.   We put Dre on him and he was not bothered.    BUT.....

He doesn't hit 8 three pointers if we're not so concerned with Randle. 

 Even though he's an elite one on one player, you have to put somebody on him at all times. 

 

 

[Plainview1981]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

Lol go to the games…it definitely ain’t overrated bruh!…hawks fans love ice Trae including myself but I will admit when he’s having a terrible ass game.

I don’t think he need to be traded I think we aren’t seeing the same offensive scheme we saw in preseason. Trae and Murray dribbling too much and not trusting their teammates.

This kind of shows that it isn't all about numbers. Trae can get Nash like assist numbers, but he is not going to run a team oriented offense. Neither is Murray.

Both need a guard that can create some. but still just be able to shoot when need be. The losses of Kevin and Gallo have hurt Trae. I know Gallo wasn't a guard, but he could play like one when needed.

The Hawks needed a more aggressive version of Huerter, not another ball stopping SG.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Plainview1981

[NekiEcko]

***Okay this might get me kick off the forums for a while, but I think I have to say it because sometimes you have to go there**

I BELIEVE THIS FANBASE IS ONE OF THE WORST BI-POLAR ONES IN ALL OF SPORTS PERIOD AND I AM A SPURS FAN (FOOTBALL, THAT IS) AND THEY ARE VERY SPECIAL PEOPLE.

I get it, we are playing him max money, he is the face of the team, we brought in an Elite Coach to coach him up, we traded for a backcourt all-star for 50/50 shots (draft picks) and everything else.  Here is my itch about it, there is 14 other players on this roster, and even know that Trae deserve some criticism about his play right now (IT IS ONLY TWO GAMES PEOPLE. JUST TWO).  If Capella hit those two bunnies, we will be talking about something else.  There are other things as why Bey only had four shots, or why our defense gave up 100 points in three quarters.  

At the end of the day, it is better to see these problems now versus when they down the home stretch with a play-in spot on the line.  We all need to practice patience because like my man Kyon, if you don't you will have headaches and short tempers.

[Bonkers]

2 hours ago, bleachkit said:

The marketing thing is so overrated. Build a winner. Stop worrying about who is "marketable." 

Yea I don't know how you market being a flashy inefficient loser

[Gray Mule]

HAWKS DID IT AGAIN!

Atlanta missed 6 free throws.  Lost the game by 6 points.

The losing formula:  Hawks played some great defense late in the game.  Six times,without a break, they had the ball and had the opportunity to tie with a 2 or take the lead with a 3.  They failed all 6 times.

Knicks PG had 31 points.  Hawks PG had 18 points.  

At this point of the season Hawks are no better than last year's team.  Still, the future looks bright in spite of all this.  Question:  When do we get to see some of the bench players who haven't played yet?  Perhaps one of them has the key to victory!  We hope!!

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

I think you need to not consider a Nate offense when you talk about this team.   The Nate offense was reliant on floor spacers.  That's why it worked when we had Gallo, Bogi, Kev,  Snell and JC (hitting threes).  Those floor spacers would open the floor for 1-5 PNR and PNPs...   Well, we've lost those guys with the exception of Bogi.  And Snyder is not doing that. 

Snyder is going to bring his version of a motion offense.   Or maybe some of the Mike Brey high Low motion offense.   So all these commentaries on how we need floor spacers... this and that...  That doesn't really fit with what we're doing.  That's Nate offense thinking.   That's why JJ is our most lethal player and he can't hit a three pointer.   Reason being is that he excels in a motion offense. He does the thing that our wings have to learn.. Get and go. 

What the Snyder-Brey offense requires is thinking the game.  So when I look at JJ and Bey and Dre, these are guys who have the ability to be great in a Snyder-Brey offense.   DJ too.  But they have to unlearn a lot of the things from LP and Nate. 

Trae and Bogi can adapt to anything we put them into.   You see Trae missing shots but putting up 12 assists.  Trae has to understand that his value is not putting up a 50 piece.   It would be nice but that's not what will make this team work. His value is being opportunistic in  scoring but primarily running the offense and getting everybody looks. 

Think about last night...

• Mitchell Robinson and Hartstein controlled the paint.
• Knicks were highly efficient from three. 
• Brunson could score when he wanted to...
• And at the end, we were right there and we had put up 120 points. 

 

The difference between last year and this year so far..  Last year, our offense would go for stretches not being able to score.  We are still learning the new offense but we haven't had long droughts.

I'm encouraged. 

 

 

 

I am just talking best fits around Trae period. I've said it before we hired Quin or any new coaches that Trae isn't a smooth transition to what Quin wants to do which is hybrid of a motion offense with heavy PnR actions which we still run a lot of even with Quin. Even you made a thread before we hired Quin about why a coach like Quin isn't the best fit for someone like Trae. 

We only played two games and JJ is coming off the bench, once he's starting, he's going to run into the same issues Bey is having with getting quality touches. Starting 4s are superior to backup 4s. Bey would whooping backup 4s asses too last year for us. Now he's starting and realizing, this shit is really difficult. I know we want to jump the gun on JJ but as I've said recently on the pod. Let him come off the bench. There is not enough quality of the ball with Murray and Trae on the court at the same time. Spacing is more valuable. That said, it's going to take time for Bey, he went from getting a lot of touches, most bad in Detroit to great touches in Atlanta to relegated. I seen this story a thousand times with the wings in Atlanta with Trae. It's a lot easier to come off the bench than to start. A lot easier. 

It requires more than just thinking, it will requires you to run the offense and see what the defense is doing, react with positive actions and even if it doesn't lead to a point, it opens things up for others. The best players for this system are guys like Dre who 2 to 4 years of college basketball. It's a scheme that protects the least skilled and helps guys that have great feel for the game and won in college and know how to play Basketball. 

As we both said in the past, this was never going to be a natural fit for Trae. That said, it's the best option he has. Going Yolo just doesn't work in the NBA on a consistent level.

Bogi issues is simply starting with Trae. He seems to go into massive slumps with Trae. But usually by the middle of the season, he adjust and he starts balling with Trae but then he usually gets hurt, massively regress, and becomes extremely inconsistent. 

The Knicks been getting the best of us since Trae been in Atlanta outside of the playoffs. Mitchell Robinson been in our ass since his rookie season. What they did is what they generally always do. Just that we did a much better Job with Randle yesterday than we normally do till the late 4th when the wheels fell off. 

I don't lose faith, I just watch ten games, usually twice each, then adjust expectations. As of right now, this team looks better than last year's team in the RS. But this team still looks overly dependent of Trae's scoring and I don't know how that can change. 

At the end of the day, watching the game and watching low lights, I don't think people realize how physical teams can play Trae and the rule change really nerfed Trae's offensive scoring. Then again, VC told Trae and all of us that the best of Trae is 20/12, I don't believe Trae wants to play that style. I also don't know if we have the personnel for it yet. That said, I would like to see better shot selection from Trae. Some of his attempts especially in the 4th was awful. It's easy to point at Murray missing a read and shooting a contested middy but it's not any better to take a 35 ft 3 with 17 seconds left in a 2 point game with 2 mins left either. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Like I said frustrating game, but I'm encouraged in some/most areas. Execution: the theme of Quin's presser.