Official Game Thread: Knicks at Hawks

[lethalweapon3]

“I’m mighty mighty! Just lettin’ it all hang out. Ow! I’m a…”

 

The New York Knicks did get blown out in Boston on Monday, yes. But Julius Randle had a pretty nice game! For himself.

His 25 points came largely from earning trips to the charity stripe and converting (10-for-11 FTs, 5-for-11 2FGs, 2-for-8 3FGs) versus the Celts. But even those field-goal values dragged his percentage up from 33.9 FG% (25.8 3FG%) 70.1 FT%.

Correction: up TO that percentage, as Randle and the Knicks await the Hawks’ arrival from Motown for a game tonight at State Farm Arena (7:30 PM Eastern, Bally Sports Southeast and 92.9 FM, MSG Network in NYC).

The NBA’s Most Turned Least Turned Most Turned Least Improved Player is righting the ship. Despite a nice game, for him, with a season-high nine assists plus 12 boards and 3-for-7 3FGs on October 27, during the Knicks’ last victorious visit to Atlanta, Randle’s first six games were at atrocious 27.1/22.5/61.8 shooting splits, as New York slipped to 2-4 to start the season.

Julius has since upped his efficiencies while averaging 24.5 PPG over the last four games with shooting splits of 42.7/30.8/78.8, which isn’t that bad. For him. Thank goodness, though, for Randle and Knicks Nation that their most consistent source of criticism has stepped it up.

In winning three-straight for New York (5-5) before missing the Boston game due to a migraine, R.J. Barrett has matched Randle’s 22.6 PPG on the season, while posting splits (48.7/50.0/84.8) far more appropriate for an All-Star-tier stretch-four like Randle. R.J. dished out a season-high six assists and sunk three triples in helping Jalen Brunson (career-high 8 threes) and the Knicks escape Atlanta with the six-point winning margin last month.

Knicks team prez Leon Rose likely had to restrain his head coach, Tom Thibodeau, from wresting away the phone and calling in their pick for the reigning NCAA champion and NABC Defensive Player of the Year on 2019’s Draft Night. But for that, Barrett might have landed in New Orleans, or Atlanta, or Minnesota, and the Maple Mamba may have been granted several more seasons to turn his all-around game into one that’s syrupy sweet.

Instead, it’s Barrett, not De’Andre Hunter, that drew all the daily ire in The Post and on Mad Dog Radio, up until his latest breakout. And it’s Hunter, the soon-to-be 26 year-old that’s 2.5 years Barrett’s senior, who has been blessed with a longer leash, even from a former All-Star as recently as a few hours ago.

“Dis da kid who I think gon’ be an All-Star,” chimed-in Charles Barkley during this morning’s late-night highlight reel of Hawks-Pistons on TNT’s Inside the NBA. “De’Andre Hunter. I love his game,” as the replay shows Da Kid canning a wide-open three, created off a Saddiq Bey drive-and-dish. Why, thank you, Sir Charles. Would someone kindly check to see what’s in Chuck’s mug, and make mine a double?

As it stands, there are just two lottery draftees left from the star-crossed 2019 NBA Draft with a lower efficiency than Hunter’s .042 Win Shares per-48 (as per bball-ref), now that he’s been surpassed by Barrett’s .046. Those two players are former teammates of Hunter’s -- Lakers revelation Cam Reddish (.025 WS/48), Atlanta’s ballyhooed pick at #9 who now teams up with #8 pick Rui Hachimura, and Jarrett Culver (minus-.001), the #6 pick who, like Hunter, was praised for being a collegiate defensive stalwart.

Only Culver (minus-4.5) and last-in-the-lottery Romeo Langford (minus-3.4) fail to meet or exceed Hunter’s minus-3.4 Box Plus/Minus. As disastrous as Detroit’s doomed experiment was, with #15 pick Sekou Doumbouya (minus-1.8 VORP), you will not find, in either the first or second rounds of that draft, an NBA player with a lower Value Over Replacement Player than De’Andre’s minus-2.4. He and Bruno Fernando (each at minus-0.01) are the sole Hawks this early in the season with a negative VORP.

Numbers like those might tempt, me, were I an NBA owner, to just say, "Y'know what? I'mma just put my kid in charge of player personnel, thanks for your service." The guy who picked Hunter now serves in a cushy consultant role in D.C., while the staff he left behind have to be the ones spinning straw.

Culver, and Doumbouya, have been Outside The NBA for some time now, and no one asks Romeo, “Wherefore Art Thou?” anymore. Yet “starting, at forward, from Virginia, De’Andre Hunter!” is the sure-as-rain refrain we will continue to hear before home-game tipoffs.

With all that said, it’s still unfair to classify Hunter, the #4 pick Atlanta’s prior regime traded up to acquire, as a classical draft bust. I propose more of a draft burp. We’re only feeling the internal congestion more, now that the current management regime locked themselves down to a four-year, $95 million extension for De’Andre that kicked in last month. And unless there's those that could've foreseen a Trae-Garland backcourt pairing as a boon, there's nobody else that the Hawks could've traded up to acquire that could've fared significantly better.

No one around Gotham at the moment is bellyaching over the $107 million contract Barrett signed the same month as Hunter in 2022, and for good reason. His role, as New York’s “most undeniable offensive force” (as stated recently in SI’s Knicks coverage) is as clear as it has ever been, especially given Randle’s undulations. Hunter’s role as the most undeniable defensive force for Atlanta, when sharing the court with Dejounte Murray and Clint Capela, is quite debatable. Fortunately for the Hawks (6-4), few around the NBA media-verse, least of all The Chuckster, are interested in engaging in such a debate.

De’Andre had a nice game last night, for him, with 16 points, five boards, five dimes, and just one TO. But his net effect was +2 plus/minus, in a game with a favorable 126-120 outcome. He also led the way for the Hawks with 27 points (8-for-8 FTs) and six rebounds versus the Knicks a few weeks ago. While his plus/minus was the best among Hawk starters, it was still a minus-1 in the unfavorable 126-120 outcome.

It's the intervening disappearing-act games that really depress his value, over replacements or anyone else. 26 minutes in Mexico City, with nary a rebound to show for the trouble. He did nab a pair of defensive rebounds a couple days before in OKC, matching the number of baskets he made at the other end (2-for-13 FGs, no steals, blocks or assists over what was a season-high 33 minutes) in Atlanta’s loss to the Thunder.

Even Detroit rappers will tell you Dre shouldn’t be forgettable, and last night’s production was a modest improvement, for him, over the last Hawks home game. He chipped in during his season-high 35.6 minutes against the heat with 4-for-11 shooting (bagel-for-4 on threes), one steal, one block, and five assists (3 TOs). He did make all his free throws, though. Both of them, to be exact.

Hunter, we are told, makes things easier on the Hawks by helping guard the guys Trae Young cannot, while also covering scoring threats, like Barrett and Randle, from the 2-through-4 position. So perhaps he’s stretched too thin to be of any palpable impact. Plus, he’s been laden with injury stints, and who is going to expect a fella face-guarding while playing through a(nother) dislocated finger to be among the league leaders in deflections (2.1 per-36, behind Bogi’s 3.8, Dejounte’s 3.0, Trae’s 2.9, Bey’s 2.4, and Jalen’s 2.2) and steals?

I’d love to tell you precisely what I need out of Hunter, among the league’s Who Wants To Be a 20-Millionaire winners who too frequently serve up parting-gift efforts. But I really struggle with that, and this lowly fan is nobody’s GM. Unfortunately for Landry Fields and company, Barkley isn’t one, either. As Hunter’s draft-worst net-negative value obscures his asking price, it has been hard for Landry to field calls seeking an upgrade. He cannot do what Atlanta did with Cam, and flip De’Andre’s looks-the-part raw potential into some future value or cap relief.

The Hawks also don’t want to call too much attention to their dilemma by moving Bey, the player denied an extension deal who we’re led to believe is a substantial defensive downgrade, back into the starting unit, only this time with Jalen Johnson.

So I’m left to act like Miss More in the lawyer commercials. If Hunter is so essential in pairing up with the Hawks’ star guards, I need more than +0.7 (net points per 100 possessions) in his two-man lineups with Murray, which is actually not bad, for him (minus-0.8 w/ Dejounte last season, in his largest pairing). I’ll need even more than +3.8 with Young (+2.3 last season), particularly when Saddiq is at +3.1 in-and-out of coach Quin Snyder’s starting units, with Trae, and +9.2 with Murray. Bey has been net-positive in all 2-Man Hawk combos exceeding 100 minutes this season, including his lowest net with Hunter (+0.6).

Hunter picks things up, à la Barrett (still listed as questionable for tonight) for Errant Julius in New York, and no one is stressing about Young’s early shooting marks (career-lows of 40.0 2FG%, 29.4 3FG%). Trae will come around, eventually, and there is little reason to doubt that. When Trae does make his turn, though, will De’Andre be around that corner, too?

Further, when either of Murray or Young is unavailable, I need Hunter (14.0 PPG, down from 15.4 last season) to be the one who elevates his offensive production (including his passing) and picks up the slack. I need to see the take-charge player that Miami needed to goad with P.J. Tucker just to slow his roll in the 2022 Playoffs. Looking the part, passing the eye test, and chipping in, is no longer enough for this fifth-year full-time starter.

De’Andre has been able to get away with, “psshh, at least he’s not R.J. Barrett,” but no longer. Perhaps he can become the sixth-man extraordinaire who helps keep Kobe Bufkin’s man out of the paint while capably guarding reserves 2-through-4, too. But the Hawks, and its fans, deserve more. We want to come away from Hawks games like tonight’s, and look back upon Hunter’s impact as if it’s, “Good for him!” Not simply, “Good. For him.”

 

Let’s Go Hawks!

~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

Barrett (Questionable, migraine) is the only player listed on the Knicks' Boo-Boo Report as of 1:30 PM. Hawks have their usual shortlist of suspects (Kobe, Mo G) with Trae back for tonight. Trent Forrest remains with the team while Seth Lundy and Miles Norris are with the Skyhawks.

~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

"ha-HAAAA!"

~gusj0hns0n

[JayBirdHawk]

All I gotta say is 'we cannot lose another home game to the Knicks'. That home opener was AWFUL!

 

[JayBirdHawk]

I'm assuming Wes plays in this game since he didn't play last night. He was on a 10 minute restriction his previous first game back. Need his toughness.

[lethalweapon3]

41 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

"ha-HAAAA!"

~gusj0hns0n

Ha-haaaa!

~m0i

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

migraine

I had one of dem minegrains earlier your preview is making it feel better.. let me read on.. 

 

4 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

“Dis da kid who I think gon’ be an All-Star,”

ok I feel a lil better Chuck is funny

 

4 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

see what’s in Chuck’s mug, and make mine a double?

 

 

4 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

ballyhooed

 

4 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

Sekou Doumbouya

Jamaaliver @JayBirdHawk @kg01

 

4 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

current management regime locked themselves down to a four-year, $95 million extension for De’Andre that kicked in last month.

Oooohhhh fml  

4 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

Even Detroit rappers will tell you Dre shouldn’t be forgettable,

 
 

4 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

He did make all his free throws, though. Both of them, to be exact.

 

4 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

particularly when Saddiq is at +3.1 in-and-out of coach Quin Snyder’s starting units, with Trae, and +9.2 with Murray. Bey has been net-positive in all 2-Man Hawk combos exceeding 100 minutes this season, including his lowest net with Hunter (+0.6).

People can’t read this and wonder why I wanted to start Bey>Hunter to start the season. Or was it JJ  

You are the man @lethalweapon3 thanks I’m all ready! 
 

Go Hawks!!!

ps Vegas has KNICKS-1.5 I typed in HAWKS- … then went to site and saw Knicks were actually the fav, ohhhkay.

 

pee pee es Hawks rollin with the statement jerseys and the Knicks got the associations tonight!

 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Spud2nique

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

Ha-haaaa!

~m0i

Wait Wally is stepping in for Jax? Nobody tell Haliburton he’s doing nuff already that kid, gramps kid  

[lethalweapon3]

RYAN ARCIDIACANO GAME ON TAP!

~lw3

[BrazilianHawk]

I wish they would play a little D tonight. Just a little bit. 

GO HAWKS! 

[Spud2nique]

Hawks by 10 per 2K 

Welcome back daddy! Not @macdaddy he’s always here I meant daddy o Teal!  

When was the last time the Hawks backcourt exceed 30+ each? 

I’ll take a combined 66 from our backcourt but I also like the balance a lot. Whatever clicks just do it baby let’s get a win!

[Spud2nique]

6 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Hawks by 10 per 2K 

Welcome back daddy! Not @macdaddy he’s always here I meant daddy o Teal!  

When was the last time the Hawks backcourt exceed 30+ each? 

I’ll take a combined 66 from our backcourt but I also like the balance a lot. Whatever clicks just do it baby let’s get a win!

I knows this is a video game but Hunter went 3-12 and 1-7 from downtown. Please don’t let him do this again tonight.  

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Vegas has KNICKS-1.5 I

Ok now it’s Hawks -1.5 

 

3 point swing.. just for RJ I guess. whoyda thunk it.

[Final_quest]

9 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I knows this is a video game but Hunter went 3-12 and 1-7 from downtown. Please don’t let him do this again tonight.  

Video game Hunter knows what you really think about him.  

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[HawksNWaffles]

Let's goooo 

[terrell]

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

All I gotta say is 'we cannot lose another home game to the Knicks'. That home opener was AWFUL!

 

Im worried about Robinson controlling the paint.. Hawks have to rebound better....Dont give up a ton of offensive rebounds PLEASE..Attack the glass.. Dont wait on the ball to land in your hands.. smh

Play Bruno if you have to(no clue why we didnt sign another 3rd BIG)..

Edited November 16, 2023 by terrell

[terrell]

49 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Hawks by 10 per 2K 

Welcome back daddy! Not @macdaddy he’s always here I meant daddy o Teal!  

When was the last time the Hawks backcourt exceed 30+ each? 

I’ll take a combined 66 from our backcourt but I also like the balance a lot. Whatever clicks just do it baby let’s get a win!

Trae took 31 shots and shot over 50%?

No way... lol

Edited November 16, 2023 by terrell

[terrell]

8 minutes ago, terrell said:

Im worried about Robinson controlling the paint.. Hawks have to rebound better....Dont give up a ton of offensive rebounds PLEASE..Attack the glass.. Dont wait on the ball to land in your hands.. smh

Play Bruno if you have to(no clue why we didnt sign another 3rd BIG)..

And we give up an offensive rebound to Mitchell on the 1st possession.. smfh

[terrell]

Gotta hit those Dre..

And another offensive rebound for Mitchell.. Geez