Official Game Thread: Pacers at Hawks -- IST Game #3

[Atlantaholic]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

No awareness from DJ - regarding time on clock and score.

 

 

Not even looking to kick is criminal. 

[NBASupes]

11 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

It's not just motor. He has some of the worst handles in the NBA at SF, he's one of the least effective passers too. Defensively I feel like he is mostly effective against other longer slower players at the wings. Smaller quicker players which are the majority of guys at SG and SF cook him. 

Hunter is literally the least cooked person on our team. It's clear the hate of Hunter has anyone just making a basket on him making ya'll think he's Trae. Whereas Trae is constantly cooked and offenses attack him []. 

[]

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

But whatever, pointless to make this about Hunter. He isn't the main issue. The team is just not good enough in the loaded east top to bottom. Trae is still our best player but while at his best he's been a top 10 player, right now he's around top 25. The Hawks are deep, but lack size and defense and the top two stars just don't measure up compared to the really good teams top guys. Sad facts. 

I'm not going to go with that. 

We are 13 games into a new offense and new defense and we're showing that we can be hella good.   You can't look at 86 points in a half and say we suck.  if you do then FY.  I think we're good enough we just got to get to the place where we are consistently bringing it.   In order to bring it, it means that we have something to bring... and we do. 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

All I know is Trae had the games biggest defensive stop................

[NBASupes]

That Murray miscue hurts. 

[JeffS17]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Hunter is literally the least cooked person on our team.

I actually think it's Jalen if we're talking about blow bys, specifically.  But Jalen is not making good enough or quick enough rotations.  Trae isn't getting paid to play high level defense so the expectation isn't the same.  Almost no elite offensive PGs in the league are good defenders: Trae, Hali, Mitchell, Brunson, Simons, Dame, Luka, etc....

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I'm not going to go with that. 

We are 13 games into a new offense and new defense and we're showing that we can be hella good.   You can't look at 86 points in a half and say we suck.  if you do then FY.  I think we're good enough we just got to get to the place where we are consistently bringing it.   In order to bring it, it means that we have something to bring... and we do. 

 

We suck on defense. That's the problem. We got way too much offense again and not enough defense. 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I actually think it's Jalen if we're talking about blow bys, specifically.  But Jalen is not making good enough or quick enough rotations.  Trae isn't getting paid to play high level defense so the expectation isn't the same.  Almost no elite offensive PGs in the league are good defenders: Trae, Hali, Mitchell, Brunson, Simons, Dame, Luka, etc....

Mitchell and Simons are 2s, But they way are way better on D than Trae outside of Dame. And they are way smarter and better shooters than Trae. Trae tonight mentally was fine. He definitely wasn't the reason for this lost on offense but he was on defense. We gave up like 150-something points. That's crazy. We really play bad defense. It wasn't even this bad last year. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by NBASupes

[Carmine]

So glad I didn't watch this game, this team isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

All I know is Trae had the games biggest defensive stop................

He was horrible on D for most of the night so we can give him that stop. He also saved Hunter big miscue too. I like this year's Trae. He's still terrible on D but he's makes plays now on D. The effort is there. That's all you can ask for with his size and lack of tools and length. Even the Hield contest that Hield drilled was in Buddy shot pocket. He had some moments. 

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I actually think it's Jalen if we're talking about blow bys, specifically.  But Jalen is not making good enough or quick enough rotations.  Trae isn't getting paid to play high level defense so the expectation isn't the same.  Almost no elite offensive PGs in the league are good defenders: Trae, Hali, Mitchell, Brunson, Simons, Dame, Luka, etc....

Exactly! When you are supposed to be good at something.......let it show night in night out.

[dalamchops]

not sure why quin suddenly decided to trap every possession in the 2nd half. This carlisle coached team was too disciplined to fall victim and continuously exploited us for wide open shots. 

on the opposite end the pacers traps worked to perfection, we were extremely slow to pass out of the double team and could not take advantage. 

we were simply outcoached

[Diesel]

One of our problems all night was Obi Toppin. 

Baseline scoring.

 

[terrell]

11 hours ago, NBASupes said:

We suck on defense. That's the problem. We got way too much offense again and not enough defense. 

Well If [] Dre and Capela can't even make this an average defense why play them?

Go all offense .

The defense can't get any worse.... 

[Diesel]

Just now, dalamchops said:

not sure why quin suddenly decided to trap every possession in the 2nd half. This carlisle coached team was too disciplined to fall victim and continuously exploited us for wide open shots. 

on the opposite end the pacers traps worked to perfection, we were extremely slow to pass out of the double team and could not take advantage. 

we were simply outcoached

The halfcourt trap was effective for stopping Haliburton in the 4th. 

In the 4th he was like 0 points, 2 assists and 2 or 3 turnovers.

We should have used it in the third when he was lighting us up. 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

15 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

We suck on defense. That's the problem. We got way too much offense again and not enough defense. 

The problem is the guys who are supposed to be the defenders on this team aren't consistent enough.

We do not have one top line defender to be what Trae is to the offense.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, dalamchops said:

not sure why quin suddenly decided to trap every possession in the 2nd half. This carlisle coached team was too disciplined to fall victim and continuously exploited us for wide open shots. 

on the opposite end the pacers traps worked to perfection, we were extremely slow to pass out of the double team and could not take advantage. 

we were simply outcoached

I was telling @TheNorthCydeRises that the reason this works against Trae is because he's short and weak and doesn't want to get the ball out quickly. 

Hali gets it out fast and always makes the right read and he's tall so he can see the entire floor. It made us look stupid and it killed our defense even though it was already dead. 

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

The problem is the guys who are supposed to be the defenders on this team aren't consistent enough.

We do not have one top line defender to be what Trae is on offense.

Man, you keep telling yourself this but it doesn't make it true

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, terrell said:

Well If your boy Dre and Capela can't even make this an average defense why play them?

Go all offense .

The defense can't get any worse.... 

You can't save a defense where you got one guy constantly out of position off the ball, one guy constantly being targeted for actions because he's small, the other being overaggressive too much. Ain't much Clint or Dre can do in that situation. Add the scheme is more complex and it's extremely difficult 

[Atlantaholic]

21 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I'm not going to go with that. 

We are 13 games into a new offense and new defense and we're showing that we can be hella good.   You can't look at 86 points in a half and say we suck.  if you do then FY.  I think we're good enough we just got to get to the place where we are consistently bringing it.   In order to bring it, it means that we have something to bring... and we do. 

 

This core hasn't played defense in like over 160 games man. This ain't it. If Trae has a lot more games like this one tonight we will have a shot at the 6th or 5th seed, and if not it's the playin for the third season in a row. Trae-DJM is not a good fit defensively and offensively it isn't great enough to justify the ass defense we'll consistently play. If we are married to this pairing than we need to fill the team with better defenders but it's tough because we also need great shooters around Trae, and great shooters are usually not great defenders and vice-versa.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Man, you keep telling yourself this but it doesn't make it true

Where do our defensive players rank?