Official Game Thread: Hawks at Bucks

[lethalweapon3]

“What's this? An endless loop of Hawks late-game inbound replays? Do you expect me to talk?”

 

Jason Kidd needs somebody to write some positive [redacted], so I’ll give it a shot.

Kidd inherited Giannis Antetokounmpo when Larry Drew got the heave-ho in Milwaukee. In so doing, the new Bucks owners’ handpicked head coach declared their big bag-o’-bones the team’s newest… point guard.

He’ll teach the Greek Freak everything he knows, the soon-to-be Hall of Famer thought to himself. Within a season, Kidd declared Giannis was the Bucks’ newest… shooting guard. Not much about Antetokounmpo screamed, “long-range shooting superstar” (hang in there, coach, I’m getting there). But the potential of allowing him to drive from the perimeter to create offense, particularly with the space generated from defenders willfully sagging, was too enticing an experiment not to conduct.

Next, bearing some gristle on those bony shoulders after some time in the weight room, Giannis would move into the frontcourt as Milwaukee’s newest… small forward (fare thee well, Jabari Parker). It would be enough to earn the Bucks’ franchise-face his first All-Star appearance in the midst of his fourth pro season and, at season’s end, Most Improved Player honors. Sharing the wing with supersized sniper Khris Middleton wouldn’t hurt, either. But by the end of the 2016-17 season, they were all still waiting to enjoy their first opening-round playoff series victory.

Same, by the end of 2018, although by mid-season, Kidd was pushed out to help ownership woo Atlanta’s Mike Budenholzer from the transfer portal. Interim coach Joe Prunty took the girthier Giannis and plugged him into a power forward role, where the latter would average double-digit rebounds for the first time in his career.

The next season, Bud and incoming stretchy center Brook Lopez helped max out Giannis’ potential at the 4-spot by uncluttering the paint. Antetokounmpo would exceed 60 percent on two-point shots along the way to the first of two straight league MVP awards, and his burgeoning defensive prowess would be rewarded in 2020 with DPOY as well. By 2019, Milwaukee reached the conference finals. By 2021, Giannis earns his first NBA ring, and Finals MVP.

Unfortunately for him, his particular skillset couldn’t compensate for injuries and gradual slippage by his co-star, Middleton, and no one else on the Bucks could, either. After missing out on the conference finals in 2022, then the second-round in 2023, Budenholzer hits the skids.

Now, Adrian Griffin takes charge. And with that, Atlanta Hawks fans, I’d like to formally introduce to you and the NBA to Mr. Giannis Antetokounmpo, the once and future Milwaukee Bucks… center.

As Prunty, now an assistant under Griffin for the Bucks (13-6, incl. 8-2 over last 10 games), is aware, Giannis has been trotted out as a mismatch creator and a dynamic, disruptive force, consistently, at every position on the NBA floor, except one. Well, technically, five. He gets to enjoy his final year in his twenties beginning four days from now, and I suspect the evolution under Griffin’s watch has already begun.

Kidd did all he could to maximize Antetokounmpo’s ball-handling and floor-directing skills, which proved to be of benefit to him long-term (is that positive enough for you, Jase?). But the guy averaging a career-high 4.1 TOs/game, to “just” 4.7 APG (down from 5.7 last season, lowest since 2015-16), does not a point guard or even point-forward make. Besides, that’s why Damian Lillard is here.

Bobby Portis is Avis, he tries hard. But he need not be slinging his wingspan around as a backup at the 5-spot any more than Giannis at this point. Unlike his arms, Brook Lopez’s tooth is growing long. While he is protecting the rim as best he can (2.7 BPG, eclipsing last year’s career-high of 2.5), corralling defensive boards and getting back in transition (MIL 5^th-most opponent fastbreak points per-36; ATL 3^rd) are no longer his strong suits.

That was made evident on Thursday, as the Bulls wouldn’t need a pregame players-only meeting to dominate the glass in a 120-113 OT win over the Bucks in Chicago. Giannis led the way with 14 rebounds for Milwaukee (incl. 6 of their 9 O-Rebs). Yet Lopez and Portis found themselves outworked by Nikola Vucevic (29-and-10) and Andre Drummond (10-and-14 in 13.5 bench minutes), and Bropez couldn’t get stretch an arm out far enough to dissuade Alex Caruso from sinking a game-tying fadeaway three at the close of regulation. Chicago also didn’t need either the injured Zach LaVine nor last-minute scratch DeMar DeRozan to blitz the Bucks 20-11 on the fastbreak.

Milwaukee’s reservations have long been to protect Giannis from getting into foul trouble by placing him as far away from the pivot spot as possible. But Griffin will find that Giannis can create more havoc for opponents from the dunker’s spot these days. Perhaps contracting defenses enough to help Lillard (41.8 FG%, down from 46.3% w/ POR last season; 32.9 3FG%) and Middleton (31.6 3FG%; 31.5% in 33 games last season) find their range more consistently. Also, cutting down on his floor mileage (2.44, compared to Nikola Jokic’s 2.31, and Joel Embiid’s 2.25, per Second Spectrum), could pay dividends over 82 games.

As it stands, Antetokounmpo is the sole NBA player averaging over 29 PPG and 10 RPG while shooting over 50 percent from the field. That latter value actually exceeds 60 percent right now, and that’s largely because Coach AG is compelling GA (7.3 feet average shot distance, lowest since 7.2 in 2014-15, as per bball-ref) to abdicate settling for three-pointers (10.0% of his FGAs, lowest proportion since 2014-15, incl. zero corner 3FGAs to date) he shouldn’t have to make.

Giannis is averaging 1.3 SPG and 1.4 BPG right now, without having full-time duties at center. It used to be just voter fatigue, in recent seasons, holding him back from getting looks from a plurality of MVP voters. Now, unless you’re a super-soaking scorer at the other positions, you must be a dominant center, a la Embiid or Jokic, to stand out and draw the positive pub.

Despite the uniqueness of Antetokounmpo’s production thus far, it’s Jokic and Embiid once again getting the MVP attention; NBA.com’s Michael Wright has only now moved Giannis up into the fifth rung of his MVP ladder, with the usual suspects at 1 and 2, and Giannis looking up at Luka and SGA in a tie for third place.

Embiid has been blessed with the breakout performance of his co-star, Tyrese Maxey, Jokic to a lesser extent by the consistent fullcourt offense of Michael Porter, Jr. Yet neither the Nuggets nor Sixers have demonstrably better records than the Bucks, and Antetokounmpo has had to endure the acclimation of new second-banana Lillard and former Jazz-Laker sixth-man Malik Beasley to his starting lineup.

Lillard and Beasley have given the Bucks’ offense some respectability, but at the expense of the once-vaunted team defense (115.0 D-Rating, 20^th in NBA, down from 4^th last season). The departure of key role players, in the process of making moves to acquire Lillard, is also pressing back-of-the-line Bucks (MarJon Beauchamp, Andre Jackson, A.J. Green, and elder statesmen Pat Connaughton and Cam Payne) into prime-time plays they may not yet be fully ready for.

While the Bucks were struggling with the shorthanded Bulls, the Hawks needed a full 40 minutes of The Reign of Trae-ror just to keep the Spurs from notching a first victory in its past 13 games. A far more impressive Hawks victory came back in late October, here at Fiserv Forum. Atlanta throttled Dame Nickel and all of Milwaukee’s backcourt contributors, particularly in the first half, and Trae Young’s 20 points led a balanced scoring effort (8 Hawks in double-digits, plus a pair of AJ Griffin threes in front of his Paw-paw), leaving Buck defenders not knowing where to turn.

The Hawks’ 127-110 victory, their first of the season back on October 29, set the bar for what coach Quin Snyder’s 9-9 club could look like when they bother to dig in defensively (season-high 15 steals; 14 in the win @SAS) and spread the offensive wealth (season-high 32 assists). A repeat performance tonight (8 PM Eastern, Bally Sports Southeast and 92.9 FM in ATL, BS Wisconsin) is a bit of an ask to close out this five-game road swing. But it can help Atlanta if they keep a defender near Giannis whenever he gets his touches outside the paint, allowing him to occasionally forget his ideal position.

Speaking of centers, an advisory word to Tim McMahon: go scribble something nice about the Mavs’ teenaged center Dereck Lively’s stats. That ought to cheer Coach Kidd up, for a minute or two. “Hey, coach, how’s THIS for data?”

 

Let’s Go Hawks!

~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

Same stuff, different day for the Hawks' side of the Boo-Boo Report.

Villa Rican forward Jae Crowder remains Out after mid-November surgery to address groin and abdominal tears. Speedy rookie Andre Jackson has been dealing with back spasms and is listed as Questionable, although he did make it to the third quarter of Thursday's game in Chicago.

Milwaukee's October loss to the Hawks is their sole defeat thus far at Fiserv (8-1 at home), where they've won their past seven. Atlanta's victory also pulled the all-time series head-to-head into a 117-117 deadlock.

Try to keep Dame (8.4 FTs/game. 2nd in NBA) off the free throw line, but also don't let him sink 15 threes tonight. That would move Lillard into 5th all-time in made three pointers with former Buck/Hawk Kyle Korver (2.450 3FGs). 15 assists from Lillard would move the NBA75'er into the Top-60 in all-time dimes dropped, ahead of Jeff "Hi Kids!" Hornacek.

At the risk of a jinx, the Hawks (75) are 8 games away from surpassing Coach Bud and the Bucks' Feb. 2019 - Feb. 2020 streak of triple-digit scoring tallies (83). First place, appropriately, is damn-the-torpedoes Doug Moe's 1981-1982 Nuggets (136). 

~lw3

[JayBirdHawk]

Final game of the 5 game roadie. We are 2-2 so far.

[Spud2nique]

The dirty south be puttin lw3 ina hall of fame {fame.. fame fame fame}  

I’m goin big like the Cavs! Cap and OO letttttt goooo!!!

[Spud2nique]

Trae went 47/21/5/3 wow  

 

HAWKS BY 15! He flirted with Mookie’s 23 dimes once again. One of these days… the superstar is gonna go some outlandish superstar ish.

Go Trae Go Hawks!!!!

[HawksNWaffles]

Victory is guaranteed.....

 

[BrazilianHawk]

Hawks might be the most unclutch team in the History of the NBA... losing 99-98 at the end of the 3rd, then this... 

 

 

 

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

End of the 5 game roadtrip in 8 days. 2-3.

 

 

 

[benhillboy]

8 minutes ago, BrazilianHawk said:

Hawks might be the most unclutch team in the History of the NBA... losing 99-98 at the end of the 3rd, then this... 

 

 

 

 

 

I was flipping in my chair at the shots Bogi was missing in the fourth.  Two straight “open” looks (by his standards), both flat and short.  Then a perfect rhythm look that rimmed out.

But anyway, the Hawks were expected to lose by 7 and they did.  On to the next one in this epic quest for mediocrity.  When this team is finally deconstructed I’ll look back and marvel at how consistently they alternated wins and losses and how they failed to cover the spread in an eventual loss as an underdog 70-something times in a row.  I’m not sure but it may be more and still ongoing.

Edited December 3, 2023 by benhillboy

[JayBirdHawk]

On 12/2/2023 at 3:41 AM, Sothron said:

Saddiq Bey is the worst defensive forward I might have ever seen. Keep in mind his draft profile was as a gritty tweener 3 & D floor wing. That was his FLOOR. He is so bad on defense you can't write enough about it.

 

On 12/1/2023 at 11:17 AM, kg01 said:

Defensive instincts are so lacking for certain guys it's crazy........ I be watching Bey like, "dude go over there.  No, not there.  THERE!  STOP WATCHIN THA BAWL!!!"  

Another Bey special:     

 

......he ends up guarding no one. Just lost on where to be and what to do.

[JayBirdHawk]

Trae and DJ finally had a good game together except the last 5 minutes when they both struggled 

 

 

 

[Spud2nique]

I thought it was a good loss overall and we played well. No loss is a good loss but we were in it the entire time and we were running really well in transition. Playing a team like the Bucks that well on the road and coming up short the way we did, I’m not mad at all. 
 

Leep gettin it Hawks, next one is ours.

Go Hawks!!!

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Trae and DJ finally had a good game together except the last 5 minutes when they both struggled 

One of the better losses to me if there is such a thing. We run beautifully in transition and the offense looks really set up nicely.

Key in on D.

Trae has become a pretty crafty lil defender, improved immensely our lil mitten  

[Spud2nique]

17 hours ago, HawksNWaffles said:

Victory is guaranteed.....

 

whyyyy are we playing against teen wolf’s dad? Yo wtf??? Brahhhh, this is gonna give me nightmares  

[benhillboy]

21 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Another Bey special:     

 

......he ends up guarding no one. Just lost on where to be and what to do.

As poor as he is on that end I cant knock Bey too tough, he has the best 100 possession rating of any non-center on the team and an on/off net second to only Jalen.  His True Shooting, loose ball hustle, and offensive rebounding pay significant dividends.

And I just realized he’s only making $4.5 mill.  He’s an exceptional value.

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

As poor as he is on that end I cant knock Bey too tough, he has the best 100 possession rating of any non-center on the team and an on/off net second to only Jalen.  His True Shooting, loose ball hustle, and offensive rebounding pay significant dividends.

And I just realized he’s only making $4.5 mill.  He’s an exceptional value.

Our greatest struggle at the moment is defense and getting back door cut is one if them.

Yes he's making $4.5 mil but was asking for $20 mil this past offseason.

[benhillboy]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Our greatest struggle at the moment is defense and getting back door cut is one if them.

Yes he's making $4.5 mil but was asking for $20 mil this past offseason.

I hear you, I don’t follow all the contract talks.  I like Bey but he done bumped his mf head with that one.  Lilliard is clocking $60 milly as he chaperoned Trae to a layup on a slow break so it’s all relative lol.  I don’t know how Adrian Griffin didn’t chew him like a stick of Trident after that one it was so egregious.

Edited December 3, 2023 by benhillboy

[theheroatl]

Our defense is putrid and I’m starting a picket line until it is fixed by swapping personnel via trade

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, theheroatl said:

Our defense is putrid and I’m starting a picket line until it is fixed by swapping personnel via trade

Right behind ya there cowboy  

[Packfill]

The Bucks shot almost 60% from the field.  That should not happen.

The Bucks took 12 fewer shots overall versus the Hawks.