Official Game Thread: Hawks at Rockets

[Spud2nique]

10 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Capela 7/7 from the line tonight

 Rest of team 16/21

Capela be livin in that @HawksNWaffles world where anything goes, even a perfect night at the line for him. Ghosts, Goblins and CC goin perfect at the charity stripe  

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Gray Mule said:

Oscar Robinson now with the Hawks?

Gramps, this trap isn’t set for you!!! Dang it let me get another piece of !!!  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Trae's post game presser on things they need to do better..........."when I get trapped, they've gotta come to the ball so there isn't such a big gap".

Trae also has to stop holding the ball so long.  He's inviting the trap to come to him.  And if you notice, teams are using the half court line and the sideline as an "extra defender", to keep Trae confined to a very small area.

Our guys have to be more aware of what to do when a trap happens, including the ball handler.

[Mikey]

that was a damn good win right there last night. houston was 11-1 at home before yesterday L. They need to stop blowing leads so much but nice to see them take a punch back and still come out on top. Hopefully Jalen back Friday

[kg01]

32 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Trae's post game presser on things they need to do better..........."when I get trapped, they've gotta come to the ball so there isn't such a big gap".

It was jarring how bad they executed.  Like they literally fell asleep, collectively.  Really the first time I've seen it that bad.  And plus Bey's terribad pressure passing was .... *sigh*

Also the only thing I can point to that kept Brooks in the game was the Ben Taylor factor.  He had to swallow a pound of bile earlier in the game because we shockingly won a challenge and he had to announce it.  He had to get his get-back by only giving Brooks a flagrant-1 .... for something that was automatically flagged as a flagrant-2 just a few weeks ago. 

[Spud2nique]

Nice Trae! I mean Ice Trae..  

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

Nice Trae! I mean Ice Trae..  

Funny how folks try to suggest this is a product of 'how the game is played now'.  Well, if that's true, and thats all it is, point me to the other dudes doing it.  I'll wait. 

[Spud2nique]

Just now, kg01 said:

Funny how folks try to suggest this is a product of 'how the game is played now'.  Well, if that's true, and thats all it is, point me to the other dudes doing it.  I'll wait. 

I honestly don’t get it, Curry was small I don’t remember him gettin all this hate.. 

 

Did Trae do something to their mamas or sisters.. what the heck, what did he do to y’all, why the poking and hate at Trae, it’s lame.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

52 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Trae still having issues with shoulder but playing through it.

 

His interviews are getting a lot better too. 

Are we seeing the emergence of MVP Trae?

[AHF]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

The single game +/- tells a cumulative story though.

You can see exactly what happens in a game when a certain person, or personnel groupings, are on the floor together.

It has a lot more value than people give it credit for.

I am talking about use to asses a player.  For game flow with groupings, sure.  But you can have the best game of your career and a negative +\- in a given game depending on what happens with everyone else on the floor.  But large data shows meaningful information about the individual and where they are effective when viewed in context.  Not so much single game.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

12 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Nate tried to neuter him, limiting his 3pt shooting. 

Had him at a career low 6 three attempts a game.

[Jody23]

48 minutes ago, kg01 said:

It was jarring how bad they executed.  Like they literally fell asleep, collectively.  Really the first time I've seen it that bad.  And plus Bey's terribad pressure passing was .... *sigh*

Also the only thing I can point to that kept Brooks in the game was the Ben Taylor factor.  He had to swallow a pound of bile earlier in the game because we shockingly won a challenge and he had to announce it.  He had to get his get-back by only giving Brooks a flagrant-1 .... for something that was automatically flagged as a flagrant-2 just a few weeks ago. 

I believe I heard Bob Rathbun say "they don't have the stomach to throw him out" during the review which was kinda telling.  That should have been an automatic flagrant 2 and just about any other time, it would be.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

11 hours ago, Diesel said:

Plus minus is fool's gold.  Our players played well.   They made a run.  Expected.  We withstood... came back and won the game.   

If you don't expect a proud home team to make a run then you don't know basketball.   These guys had won the last 11 home games. 

In that stretch, they beat Sactown (2) New Orleans, Lakers, Indy,  Denver (2), and OKC...

We should feel good about this win...

They wanted to keep the game competitive. 

 

Too simplistic Diesel.

You have data that shows which players and player groupings are effective, and which ones are not.

There's nothing fools gold about it. The data is what it is.

It's not going to show you your direct impact on a game. But it will show you if your team is playing well while you're on the floor. It'll also show you which player groups play well or bad.

The data is what it is.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Don't believe them when people dismiss +/-.

Plus/Minus tells a story from game to game, but most important, about lineup groupings.

Nope.   +/- is not accurate.   In fact, it will always slight your starters because they have to play against the best competition. 

If we're in the 4th quarter.. the other team has emptied their bench early because they are down by +15...  Who is Quin putting on the court?

Before he reaches for Mathews, Bruno, and Mills...

Quin is going to have Bogi, OO, and Bey on the court.  Just to nurse the lead and give Trae, Cap, and DJ rest...   so therefore, you expect that those three playing against lesser opponents will have a higher + than -.   But does that tell the true story of the game.   NO.

 

+/- even fails to tell the story of the team that went toe to toe with the other team.. basket for basket with the other team's best players.  It gives no reward.  In fact, in some instances, it says that they failed.  It gives a -rating for a team that stood toe to toe with the best shots that the other team could give.  And rewards players for being able to score against the 2nd team. 

 

 

[dalamchops]

kinda crazy rewatching some OO clips last night, completely destroyed sengun in the 2nd half. Dude could not keep up with okongwu at all, and Sengun's one of my favorite centers right now.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Trae also has to stop holding the ball so long.  He's inviting the trap to come to him.  And if you notice, teams are using the half court line and the sideline as an "extra defender", to keep Trae confined to a very small area.

Our guys have to be more aware of what to do when a trap happens, including the ball handler.

Last night, Houston ran a delayed trap.. which is genius.  Udoka is a great defensive mind.  If you have not planned for the delayed trap, it will work... because you do come over the halfcourt line and it looks like a regular defense.  Then all the sudden, a second defender shoots out at you to trap the ball while everybody else moves up to cut off passing lanes.   I'm surprised more teams don't do it.   It requires that a PG has knowledge and vision.   It's the reason why I wouldn't want DJ being our PG only.  Unfortunately, DJ approaches most plays knowing what he wants to do.  His main problem as a PG is paying attention and reacting at the speed of the game.  DJ will never have a magician like game as a PG because that's not his thing.   He's a great OG though. 

Trae on the other hand is the real deal.   He sees plays as they happen in real time.   That's why he can do the no looks... the long passes... most of the time.. like before the half of last night's game... Trae had already calculated where OO was supposed to be and made the pass to the spot but nobody told OO.  We have one of those real life magicians like Magic, Stockton, Nash and Kidd.... And Trae may be better than all of them. 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

Nope.   +/- is not accurate.   In fact, it will always slight your starters because they have to play against the best competition. 

If we're in the 4th quarter.. the other team has emptied their bench early because they are down by +15...  Who is Quin putting on the court?

Before he reaches for Mathews, Bruno, and Mills...

Quin is going to have Bogi, OO, and Bey on the court.  Just to nurse the lead and give Trae, Cap, and DJ rest...   so therefore, you expect that those three playing against lesser opponents will have a higher + than -.   But does that tell the true story of the game.   NO.

 

+/- even fails to tell the story of the team that went toe to toe with the other team.. basket for basket with the other team's best players.  It gives no reward.  In fact, in some instances, it says that they failed.  It gives a -rating for a team that stood toe to toe with the best shots that the other team could give.  And rewards players for being able to score against the 2nd team. 

 

 

It will slight your starters if your starters as a group are sub psr, or aren't a great fit.

What is the most glaring things about our starting 5?

- No low post offense from Capela ( only scores on lobs and put backs )

- 12's lack of activity on the boards and hustle in general

- DJs inconsistent shooting and overdribbling

- Bey being undersized to play the 4 as a starter, and not getting enough shots ( which Trae spoke about after the press conference )

- Trae forcing passes in the middle, trying to get Capela touches, and overdribbling with that group, instead of free flowing like when he's with Bogi and Bey.

 

Go look at some other starting 5s around the league. See if they struggle or not.

The data is what it is.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

It will slight your starters if your starters as a group are sub psr, or aren't a great fit.

Not true...

 

So let's use this example from Miami vs Orlando night. 

When the starters logged most of their minutes, it was a back and forth game.  Miami reserves were better than Orlando reserves and developed a lead.  Miami starters came back in and nursed that lead but didn't extend it. 

So +/- makes it look like Miami starters are terrible.  Bam = -6.   18/7/2 on 46% shooting..  That's so terrible!!

Point is.. 

+/- is just a streak determiner...  Shouldn't be used to evaluate a player or a 3 man team.  Just tells you who was on the floor when the streak happened.   

Last night, Houston had a streak partially because of the ref's influence.  Missed call on one end and  an immediate B.S. call on Bogi for a flagrant... gives them a 8 point turnaround.   Had nothing to do with how well any one player was playing. 

 

 

[kg01]

14 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Last night, Houston ran a delayed trap.. which is genius.  Udoka is a great defensive mind.  If you have not planned for the delayed trap, it will work... because you do come over the halfcourt line and it looks like a regular defense.  Then all the sudden, a second defender shoots out at you to trap the ball while everybody else moves up to cut off passing lanes.   I'm surprised more teams don't do it.   It requires that a PG has knowledge and vision.   It's the reason why I wouldn't want DJ being our PG only.  Unfortunately, DJ approaches most plays knowing what he wants to do.  His main problem as a PG is paying attention and reacting at the speed of the game.  DJ will never have a magician like game as a PG because that's not his thing.   He's a great OG though. 

Trae on the other hand is the real deal.   He sees plays as they happen in real time.   That's why he can do the no looks... the long passes... most of the time.. like before the half of last night's game... Trae had already calculated where OO was supposed to be and made the pass to the spot but nobody told OO.  We have one of those real life magicians like Magic, Stockton, Nash and Kidd.... And Trae may be better than all of them. 

 

Nah man, we've seen the delayed trap before.  The success they had was our refusal to do basic a** stuff.  Like, if you see your man drift towards trapping Trae ... maybe position yourself to be an outlet.  Duh, that's 5th grade basketball stuff.

[Diesel]

Just now, kg01 said:

Nah man, we've seen the delayed trap before.  The success they had was our refusal to do basic a** stuff.  Like, if you see your man drift towards trapping Trae ... maybe position yourself to be an outlet.  Duh, that's 5th grade basketball stuff.

I don't disagree.  We've seen the delayed trap when we played Boston with Ume... and when we played Miami in the Playoffs and Playin.   However, we don't see it enough to say that whenever a team runs it, we know exactly what to do.. especially not in Quin's system.   Nobody has run one on us this year.... Maybe NY in the first game we played... but not much.