CBS Sports: Hawks are the biggest underachievers in the NBA in 2023-24

[NBASupes]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-underachievers-lakers-warriors-among-the-five-biggest-disappointments-but-they-dont-claim-the-top-spot/

Do I agree? No

1. Hawks have missed 214 games and are about to miss 222 after tonight. 

2. While the Trae/Murray partnership hasn't worked, it's not a failure either. Murray's metrics for the most part are very high and are massively better than last season. Trae individual stats are as good as any season he's been in the league. Yes, it's not a good fit but it's not horrible either. 

3. The regression of Capela has done massive damage to this squad. I knew something was wrong when I saw Clint focusing too much on FTs. I knew he probably knew, he lost his athleticism too much and now is more of a shell of his old self. The motor is completely gone. He still a great rebounder for his position and he still can occasionally have good days as a screener but his offense and defense have cratered and OO just hasn't been able to replace him which has been the worry for years. We all knew we needed to trade CC as his value still had quality last year but you can't trade someone you need and you will just end up needing it back as we learned when Dedmon left us for SAC and we traded for him back. The national media never brings this up but it's obvious to all of us. 

I think Trae stans also underestimated how vital Clint is to Trae's impact overall. We should have seen it against Miami but many blamed the guards instead of the bigs' injuries. Trae will always be a center-leaning player. It's the most critical position to Trae and will always be the most critical position to Trae. Due to Trae's size, I think a drop coverage defender is needed. Modern defenders don't work with Trae. He needs someone with size to protect the paint. 

4. We have seen the rise of JJ, the return of ECF Bogi, a much better offensive Hunter, and flashes of Kobe. We have seen some cool things under Quin. Getting Murray/Trae to fit much better should also be noted. Obviously, the regression of Capela f***ed us but we just didn't think he would regress this damn fast. Even I thought it was going to be a slower regression but nope, it's came at us at a high speed this season. 

5. Player development is back and I am happy about that. Guys were getting stuck under Nate. We are finally seeing improvements. JJ had a breakthrough. 

 

It's easy to never watch us play and say what you think is our problem but we all know what our problem is and it starts at the 5. We must address the center position. It's CRITCAL. 

 

[REHawksFan]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-underachievers-lakers-warriors-among-the-five-biggest-disappointments-but-they-dont-claim-the-top-spot/

Do I agree? No

1. Hawks have missed 214 games and are about to miss 222 after tonight. 

2. While the Trae/Murray partnership hasn't worked, it's not a failure either. Murray's metrics for the most part are very high and are massively better than last season. Trae individual stats are as good as any season he's been in the league. Yes, it's not a good fit but it's not horrible either. 

3. The regression of Capela has done massive damage to this squad. I knew something was wrong when I saw Clint focusing too much on FTs. I knew he probably knew, he lost his athleticism too much and now is more of a shell of his old self. The motor is completely gone. He still a great rebounder for his position and he still can occasionally have good days as a screener but his offense and defense have cratered and OO just hasn't been able to replace him which has been the worry for years. We all knew we needed to trade CC as his value still had quality last year but you can't trade someone you need and you will just end up needing it back as we learned when Dedmon left us for SAC and we traded for him back. The national media never brings this up but it's obvious to all of us. 

I think Trae stans also underestimated how vital Clint is to Trae's impact overall. We should have seen it against Miami but many blamed the guards instead of the bigs' injuries. Trae will always be a center-leaning player. It's the most critical position to Trae and will always be the most critical position to Trae. Due to Trae's size, I think a drop coverage defender is needed. Modern defenders don't work with Trae. He needs someone with size to protect the paint. 

4. We have seen the rise of JJ, the return of ECF Bogi, a much better offensive Hunter, and flashes of Kobe. We have seen some cool things under Quin. Getting Murray/Trae to fit much better should also be noted. Obviously, the regression of Capela f***ed us but we just didn't think he would regress this damn fast. Even I thought it was going to be a slower regression but nope, it's came at us at a high speed this season. 

5. Player development is back and I am happy about that. Guys were getting stuck under Nate. We are finally seeing improvements. JJ had a breakthrough. 

 

It's easy to never watch us play and say what you think is our problem but we all know what our problem is and it starts at the 5. We must address the center position. It's CRITCAL. 

 

I've asked before and you didn't answer....

Do you think an elite Center or even a center like Edey would help solve the Trae/DJ fit issues or we gonna have to split them regardless? 

I like DJ. I obviously love Trae. But the fit is off, especially defensively. 

[REHawksFan]

Also I have to think the missed games hits harder for the Hawks given the lack of quality depth on the roster. 

[NBASupes]

34 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I've asked before and you didn't answer....

Do you think an elite Center or even a center like Edey would help solve the Trae/DJ fit issues or we gonna have to split them regardless? 

I like DJ. I obviously love Trae. But the fit is off, especially defensively. 

Idk and I don't think the Murray Trae fit is a big issue outside of defense. 

Edey fixes the offensive issues and that helps defense as we don't have as much transition if we can continue to score and have the other team take the ball out of the net plus get their bigs in foul trouble which is vital.

The Murray Trae fit is just average. I don't see it really being more than that regardless who we got at Center. 

[hylndr11]

We have little leverage to fix this as well, unless we give up dj , I don't see anyone else bring of value enough to get anything back in a trade, assuming we also have to offload capella salary 

[Packfill]

2 hours ago, hylndr11 said:

We have little leverage to fix this as well, unless we give up dj , I don't see anyone else bring of value enough to get anything back in a trade, assuming we also have to offload capella salary 

If I were GM I would definitely be looking to move Murray in the off-season.  I would also move Clint, but but I could only get negative value would move OO and draft a replacement (or get a replacement in a trade).  I would also move Bogi before age craters his value if I believed Kobe or AJ are ready for a legit top 8 rotation role.

I don't think a Trae and Murray back court gets us beyond mid unless one of our front court players develops into a superstar.  

[NBASupes]

16 hours ago, Packfill said:

If I were GM I would definitely be looking to move Murray in the off-season.  I would also move Clint, but but I could only get negative value would move OO and draft a replacement (or get a replacement in a trade).  I would also move Bogi before age craters his value if I believed Kobe or AJ are ready for a legit top 8 rotation role.

I don't think a Trae and Murray back court gets us beyond mid unless one of our front court players develops into a superstar.  

Bogi is way too valuable right now. He led Serbia success in the World Cup and just had his best year since the ECF year. 

The biggest issue is figuring out the little things. Our depth was a problem for most of the season till late. Then we seen improvement from damn near everyone outside of the injured guys. What's real and what's not real. Some of these guys simply don't fit Trae. 

I am definitely on the trade Clint train. I don't know who would be on that train with us. Maybe the Knicks would be interested in a Bogey for Capela trade. 

Hawks still got a TPE to offer to a vet. 

What I like: 8

Trae, these games without just made it clear we need him. We are more stable without him but we are completely offensively limited if the shots don't fall. 

Hunter, he was never off my like list but he was for many, even in the Hawks org, he's improved his stock majorly 

Bogi, see above

Bruno, I think Bruno has earned another year

JJ, franchise piece with Trae

Kobe, upside. 

Gueye, upside

Bey, reliable, hate the injury. 

 

Mixed on: 7

Murray, beast but fit with Trae and not a SG is an issue

Griffin, time for a change of scenery 

OO?

Vit,  can't shoot but he's gotten a lot better. Would like to see on a 2 way again  

Forrest, hard worker but if Murray moved, not likely good enough to be the backup. 

Lundy, probably back on a two way again. 

Windler, I haven't seen enough of him to make any decision based on the Hawks.

Time to move on 3

Capela

Garrison

Wes

 

I am open to trade the mixed on guys. I like OO but if we can get an upgrade at wing for him, I am open to listen otherwise, he's more of a like lean. The rest, I am open to move. I am willing to cut the bottom 3. I don't see the purpose of keeping them. 

While I am not sold that pick will transfer from SAC. If it does, I want Tyler Kolek. Obviously, with our pick, Edey is the selection. 

Edited March 25 by NBASupes

[AHF]

On 3/23/2024 at 10:51 PM, REHawksFan said:

I've asked before and you didn't answer....

Do you think an elite Center or even a center like Edey would help solve the Trae/DJ fit issues or we gonna have to split them regardless? 

I like DJ. I obviously love Trae. But the fit is off, especially defensively. 

I don't think anything solves the Trae/DJ fit issues other than moving one of them for a better fitting player.  They absolutely don't work on defense.  On offense, they don't make one another better they are just two good players who are playing next to one another.  If they fit on defense, it would be fine but given that DJM can't guard SGs effectively and that they don't synergize on offense I think we should be looking to trade regardless of what we do at center.  (Trade for value; not dump.)

[Gray Mule]

CBS Sports makes it sound like the Atlanta Hawks are terrible.  They are.  This being said, they are way off in left field about why.  So many little things have gone wrong.  They find blame where there is none.  They just see the overall picture and didn't watch all the games like the posters here on the Squawk.  

Things that they mention can be answered by us, Well, duh!

All the little stuff that we read about here on the Squawk, stuff we all know make a big difference, they know nothing about.  Did we under-achieve?  Yep.  We did.  Can it be fixed?  You bet!  Will it?  Stay tuned for the answer!

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

.  (Trade for value; not dump.)

And I'm concerned about that based on this past seasoned trade deadline rumors where we were getting back expirings and picks. I hope the mindset has changed.

[Plainview1981]

This is not a good team. Healthy or unhealthy.

I've given up on them.

[NBASupes]

15 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

And I'm concerned about that based on this past seasoned trade deadline rumors where we were getting back expirings and picks. I hope the mindset has changed.

I heard a strong Pels rumor but Atlanta and NO was off due to OO. 

[JayBirdHawk]

28 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I heard a strong Pels rumor but Atlanta and NO was off due to OO. 

@Sothron said at the time NOP wanted DJ and OO for CJ McCullom, JV and picks...

Is this the same rumor? if not, what was the strong offer?

[macdaddy]

CJ is untradeable imo.  So the only thing the Pels can really do is trade Ingram assuming they don't want to give up Herb.  

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

@Sothron said at the time NOP wanted DJ and OO for CJ McCullom, JV and picks...

Is this the same rumor? if not, what was the strong offer?

Naw, Herb Jones was in the rumor I heard of. It was the Pels that wanted more. Pels had interest in OO but Atlanta wasn't all in nor was the Pels

[bird_dirt]

22 hours ago, Packfill said:

If I were GM I would definitely be looking to move Murray in the off-season.  I would also move Clint, but but I could only get negative value would move OO and draft a replacement (or get a replacement in a trade).  I would also move Bogi before age craters his value if I believed Kobe or AJ are ready for a legit top 8 rotation role.

I don't think a Trae and Murray back court gets us beyond mid unless one of our front court players develops into a superstar.  

Keep:

Trae and JJ 

Trade:

DJM and Bogi. Both would bring back the most value. I’m not buying Bogi to stay healthy so I’m selling high. 

Rest:

Ideally we would trade CC, but his only value is as an expiring deal. I doubt we would get anything back worthwhile or worse would have to give up more to get rid of his contract. We would probably just have to pay him to be a backup for a year and let him walk. If he bounces back at all next season, trade him in January for some second round picks. 

I don’t trust Hunter to be healthy either, but he is worth more to us than whatever we could get back in a trade. 

I like AJ, OO, MoG, Kobe, Bruno and would like to keep, but they could be available to trade if something good comes up or to include in a package. Maybe Vit too, I like his size.

Let Bey walk. Sadly given how his season ended, but I didn’t want to keep him even before his injury. 

The rest can be let go. 

[Final_quest]

I like how they put the Lakers and Warriors in the headline for clicks but then dump on us because Hawks.  

[Final_quest]

35 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

Keep:

Trae and JJ 

Trade:

DJM and Bogi. Both would bring back the most value. I’m not buying Bogi to stay healthy so I’m selling high. 

Rest:

Ideally we would trade CC, but his only value is as an expiring deal. I doubt we would get anything back worthwhile or worse would have to give up more to get rid of his contract. We would probably just have to pay him to be a backup for a year and let him walk. If he bounces back at all next season, trade him in January for some second round picks. 

I don’t trust Hunter to be healthy either, but he is worth more to us than whatever we could get back in a trade. 

I like AJ, OO, MoG, Kobe, Bruno and would like to keep, but they could be available to trade if something good comes up or to include in a package. Maybe Vit too, I like his size.

Let Bey walk. Sadly given how his season ended, but I didn’t want to keep him even before his injury. 

The rest can be let go. 

After the lackluster response to our players put on the market at the trade deadline, I have no idea where/how the league assess value.  Is Bogi marketable?  It sounds like we hope a bunch of guys we want to unload have value, but do they?

For the right player, I'm willing to trade JJ, Okongwu, Bufkin, etc.

[NBASupes]

Everyone been playing better of late.