Official Game Thread: Hawks at Thunder

[DS17Fanboy]

vor 5 Stunden, Diesel sagte:

Sorry to kick over your sacred Cow DS17... however, the truth is most nights... Dwight has a great size and talent advantage on the guy he plays and I watch your sacred cow come up the court, see D8's outstretched hand and pull up another jumper.   You were awfully quiet when people were questioning how Dwight could be money against  the Raptors on Thursday Night and Only get 6 attempts on Friday Night against the Hornets.  BTW.. in that game, with 6 attempts, Dwight was shooting 67%... while Your sacred cow put up twice as many shots as Dwight in roughly the same amount of minutes played.   I know.. I know.. it's the coaches fault right??  Coach called the play to tell Dennis to ignore D8.  Coach told Dennis to ignore the fact that D8 dominated the night before.   Yeah... I remember hearing that same thing for the last 3 years in the playoffs.  Now.. we have a dominant Post Threat and in a tough game playing 34 minutes... he gets 6 attempts??  What kind of world do we live in where dominant post threat gets 6 attempts and THJr gets 17?  Who is running the show?

BTW DS17... to look at what has happened with D8's touches.. it doesn't take Pat Riley, Phil Jackson, or John freakin Wooden to figure out.   Surely, your boy could have figured it out by now? I mean... he is the PG right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Talent" is not universal. It doesnt mean Dwight is talented as a go-to-guy. It isnt so that a great night vs the Raptor backcourt(their weakness) where as usual half his point came from offensive rebounds and other very situational scoring opportunities, translates in to the next night "planning" for doing the same, somewhat the same, or maybe even better. No, Dwights offensive plays will come and go as the situation seems fit. Thats actually what we need from him. To not whine about being a scorer, because he simply lacks "that talent". Do things on the PnR need to improve? Yes, and they tried and they tried with lots of loss. At some point(with a negative W record) they stopped that. And here is Dennis, toeing the line since losing almost 10 in a row, very rarely going "ISO" in the sense that that is his bread and butter. No, he takes very few shots, makes them and then some random dudes on the internet know it all better because it didnt happen after some circus passes around town. Because you know, Dennis actually has "that talent".

Edited December 20, 2016 by DS17Fanboy

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, marco102 said:

Eye test?  My eye test says yes he can get his teammates involved, but him passing to our ice cold wings won't be winning us anymore games than his current performance.  The problem is NOT with Dennis, Sap, or Howard.  The problem all season has been our wings.  If we had 3 wings on our team that shoot 50% from midrange and 35 - 40% from 3 do you think Dennis would be taking as many shots?  NO, cause coach would say pass the ball to the great shooters.  At times, he's our only offense cause no one else can create or hit a wide ass open shot.  

You may have some agenda or something, all I'm saying is to say that the problem lies with Dennis not getting others involved is absolutely incorrect when passing the ball to these "others" 75% percent of the time results in a missed shot or turnover. 

Again, you got to get the ice cold wings warmed up...sometimes at your own scorings expense.    Dennis should watch the Bad Boy Detroit Pistons.   Isiah was the epitome of a scoring PG, however, he knew how to get people going to.  It enhances your own offense when you get those ice cold wings warm.  In fact, if all they expect is for you to come down, move them into a position that helps you drive, then they will stay ice cold. 

 

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, Sarcatic1 said:

Dennis is playing some damn good ball right now so I don't see how one can complain about his play. He had some struggles but it looks like he is getting it. I'm sure he will have another stretch where he  looks bad but dude is going to be fine. He just has to cut down on the turnovers.

We don't have scorers so he has to look for his offense a little more than some point guards.  Thats more about our personnel than him as a pg.

His good play hasn't lead to much team success so far but once again that  is more due to the lack of talent on this roster.

Just because the shot goes in doesn't mean it's good play or good BBIQ.  

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, rd79 said:

@Diesel it seems you think Basketball is a video game. D8 is still tagged Superstar in your NBA2k09 game and some hacker seemed to give him the post up tag too. And Dennis hasn't the great playmaker tag CP3 has... And Dennis just doesn't want to press x to pass the ball. 

In the real world teams try to cover pass lanes to missmatches and if Tim frees himself with an open pass lane while D8 camps in the paint waiting for the next 3 sec call without trying to get free it will be Tims shot. It was D8 choise to simply wait for the ball in such situations. 

"Doesn't involve other weapons" is annother term for "doesn't run the offense" and means nothing other than "I don't know why but I want to blame him for something and don't want/know how to do it right.

By the way: what are our other weapons outside of our big three SAP, D8 & Dennis?

Dennis had some really scrappy games this season but the last games there isn't that much to blame on him. Not sure he can hold this pace but I'm enjoying his recent performances

 

Wish you would have read my post instead of just assuming.   I gave Dennis Credit (go back and read) for playing under control in the last game.      But thanks for the hack job on your post.   Sacred Cows.

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, DS17Fanboy said:

"Talent" is not universal. It doesnt mean Dwight is talented as a go-to-guy. It isnt so that a great night vs the Raptor backcourt(their weakness) where as usual half his point came from offensive rebounds and other very situational scoring opportunities, translates in to the next night "planning" for doing the same, somewhat the same, or maybe even better. No, Dwights offensive plays will come and go as the situation seems fit. Thats actually what we need from him. To not whine about being a scorer, because he simply lacks "that talent". 

[DS17Fanboy]

Dude, you are so hard to get trough. It has been said a thoudand times before: Dwight can not create for himself. Im sure Dennis could get him the ball 100 times a game, but it wouldnt be plays that got him his high FG%.

But I think ur rather just trying to be funny, acting flabbergasted, knowing fully well my post is truth and yours is about a parralell universe with the 80's pistons and banging bigs, knowing this time is(sadly) gone, but not liking this. But dont blame The Den.

Edited December 20, 2016 by DS17Fanboy

[Lurker]

18 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Again, you got to get the ice cold wings warmed up...sometimes at your own scorings expense.    Dennis should watch the Bad Boy Detroit Pistons.   Isiah was the epitome of a scoring PG, however, he knew how to get people going to.  It enhances your own offense when you get those ice cold wings warm.  In fact, if all they expect is for you to come down, move them into a position that helps you drive, then they will stay ice cold. 

 

Considering that Baze has been in his own head for 10 months now (AND WITH YOUR GOLDEN BOY TEAGUE still here), it doesn't matter if whether he gets open look after open look after open look after open look. He's going to miss them. His shot is broken because he EXPECTS to miss shots now even if they're open due to how long he has been missing them.

And YES, Baze is getting PLENTY open looks. The analytics guys have PROVEN it, although I can't find the tweet right now. The wings aren't being ignored. Baze is being a headcase and Kyle has lost a couple steps. Sefolosha is doing what Baze STOPPED doing for some reason and is cutting to the basket instead of just being like "f it, I'm taking all the threes".

[Diesel]

8 minutes ago, DS17Fanboy said:

Dude, you are so hard to get trough. It has been said a thoudand times before: Dwight can not create for himself. Im sure Dennis could get him the ball 100 times a game, but it wouldnt be plays that got him his high FG%.

But I think ur rather just trying to be funny, acting flabbergasted, knowing fully well my post is truth and yours is about a parralell universe with the 80's pistons and banging bigs, knowing this time is(sadly) gone, but not liking this. But dont blame The Den.

Here's where we agree.  Dwight cannot create for himself.  In fact, I don't know too many Centers that can or need to if their PG is doing his job.   I mean, aside from on the fast break, how many times did Shaq create for himself?  How about Ewing?   

The point is this.. not every center is going to be Duncan and Duncan didn't really consider himself a C.   Still, Howard is a PNR guy.  He's a guy who will finish on a drive and dish.  So  you suggesting that he needs to be the next coming of Hakeem Olajuwon to be talented is stupid... YES STUPID.  Hakeem was a unicorn. 

However, when you have a Dominant Post/PNR Center, you need to work at getting him the freaking Ball and not make excuses for why you shouldn't.  A guy who for the month of December is shooting 67% and you act as though he doesn't deserve touches is lacking BBIQ..   It's this simple... You have a finisher.  You have a guy who will score down low.  USE HIM.  Does that mean you can't give him the ball at the top of the key and expect him to make 3 moves and get to the hoop... YES... He's not going to be a top of the key make three moves guy.  But what he is is an old school Low post or PNR player.  That means that the PG has to work and work with him. 

 

[Diesel]

11 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Considering that Baze has been in his own head for 10 months now (AND WITH YOUR GOLDEN BOY TEAGUE still here), it doesn't matter if whether he gets open look after open look after open look after open look. He's going to miss them. His shot is broken because he EXPECTS to miss shots now even if they're open due to how long he has been missing them.

And YES, Baze is getting PLENTY open looks. The analytics guys have PROVEN it, although I can't find the tweet right now. The wings aren't being ignored. Baze is being a headcase and Kyle has lost a couple steps. Sefolosha is doing what Baze STOPPED doing for some reason and is cutting to the basket instead of just being like "f it, I'm taking all the threes".

Actually, I think the best use for Baze is to bring the ball up and get us into our offense ala DMC.  For some reason, I think it works better with Dennis playing off the ball.  Now don't get me wrong, I don't know if Baze will continue to have the handle to do this for 48 minutes.  However, I think allowing Dennis to play OG and letting Baze get others involved by starting our motion offense works.  Now if there's another guy who can do that for us.. then let's look at getting him.   It's not a full game thing but just a little time to get the pressure off of Dennis.  Sorta like Cleveland when they had the 3 bombardiers. 

 

[StephenHawking]

vor 8 Minuten, Diesel sagte:

Here's where we agree.  Dwight cannot create for himself.  In fact, I don't know too many Centers that can or need to if their PG is doing his job.   I mean, aside from on the fast break, how many times did Shaq create for himself?  How about Ewing?   

The point is this.. not every center is going to be Duncan and Duncan didn't really consider himself a C.   Still, Howard is a PNR guy.  He's a guy who will finish on a drive and dish.  So  you suggesting that he needs to be the next coming of Hakeem Olajuwon to be talented is stupid... YES STUPID.  Hakeem was a unicorn. 

However, when you have a Dominant Post/PNR Center, you need to work at getting him the freaking Ball and not make excuses for why you shouldn't.  A guy who for the month of December is shooting 67% and you act as though he doesn't deserve touches is lacking BBIQ..   It's this simple... You have a finisher.  You have a guy who will score down low.  USE HIM.  Does that mean you can't give him the ball at the top of the key and expect him to make 3 moves and get to the hoop... YES... He's not going to be a top of the key make three moves guy.  But what he is is an old school Low post or PNR player.  That means that the PG has to work and work with him. 

 

Lol Howard is a PNR guy??? Dominant PnR center??? 

LMAO DELUSIONAL.

HE SHOULD BE but sadly...

HE ISNT.

He cant set a good pick to save his life. Rolls way to quick. Just sloppy. Hes sawft as you said when it's about picks in comparison to Horford. 

[StephenHawking]

I wonder why coach bud called for Sap to play every PnR with Dennis when in fact we have the most dominant PnR guy to ever play. As old school as it gets. Granite hard picks who free up the pg and leave the c making a decision. 

[Blunt91]

On 12/19/2016 at 8:12 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Bench with 2 points, lolololol.

Hump and Prince should be abke to give us more than 2 points - play them Bud.

What kinda shitty lineup is this?

it was a mystery to me why Hump couldn't get minutes with Dwight out.  Oh well we won the game.

[benhillboy]

Dennis' FG% and eFG% are around the levels I wanted (but doubted).  They show he's working hard on shot selection and shot-making, especially with his left.  

He'll never be my ideal starter but I can't complain too tough when both numbers are higher than the man he backed up and the league's most explosive PG he defeated last night.  Knock off a TO and add a steal per and his efficiency will spike.  

Glad to see Molly Mike back.  I miss that little quirkiness and unpredictability he adds to the offense.

And the rumors of Sap's demise were premature.  It's f&@kin Sap.

Leggo.

Edited December 21, 2016 by benhillboy

[GrimeyKidd]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

Here's where we agree.  Dwight cannot create for himself.  In fact, I don't know too many Centers that can or need to if their PG is doing his job.   I mean, aside from on the fast break, how many times did Shaq create for himself?  How about Ewing?   

The point is this.. not every center is going to be Duncan and Duncan didn't really consider himself a C.   Still, Howard is a PNR guy.  He's a guy who will finish on a drive and dish.  So  you suggesting that he needs to be the next coming of Hakeem Olajuwon to be talented is stupid... YES STUPID.  Hakeem was a unicorn. 

However, when you have a Dominant Post/PNR Center, you need to work at getting him the freaking Ball and not make excuses for why you shouldn't.  A guy who for the month of December is shooting 67% and you act as though he doesn't deserve touches is lacking BBIQ..   It's this simple... You have a finisher.  You have a guy who will score down low.  USE HIM.  Does that mean you can't give him the ball at the top of the key and expect him to make 3 moves and get to the hoop... YES... He's not going to be a top of the key make three moves guy.  But what he is is an old school Low post or PNR player.  That means that the PG has to work and work with him. 

 

Funny enough they went to work with each other after the hornets game

[kurupt]

Ewing and Shaq could not create shots for themselves...holy cow, Diesel is reaching new levels of stupidity in his crusade.

Our SGs shoot 28% and 31% from 3 and they shoot nearly at the same rate as Schröder (only significantly worse percentage-wise) and he wants them to take more shots...holy cow again.

Schröder has the 11th highest assist rate among players that have played more than 150 total minutes (ahead of Rubio, Teague, Rondo, Lowry among otehrs), even though the Hawks miss open shots like no other team. f***ing egomaniac that he is...

Edited December 21, 2016 by kurupt

[Thomas]

10 hours ago, benhillboy said:

Glad to see Molly Mike back.  I miss that little quirkiness and unpredictability he adds to the offense.

The elusive clutch three we have needed so many times this season was delivered by Scott in the last game. As you said really good to have him back and especially on that play to help take a game.

[Bankingitbig]

13 hours ago, Diesel said:

Here's where we agree.  Dwight cannot create for himself.  In fact, I don't know too many Centers that can or need to if their PG is doing his job.   I mean, aside from on the fast break, how many times did Shaq create for himself?  How about Ewing?   

The point is this.. not every center is going to be Duncan and Duncan didn't really consider himself a C.   Still, Howard is a PNR guy.  He's a guy who will finish on a drive and dish.  So  you suggesting that he needs to be the next coming of Hakeem Olajuwon to be talented is stupid... YES STUPID.  Hakeem was a unicorn. 

However, when you have a Dominant Post/PNR Center, you need to work at getting him the freaking Ball and not make excuses for why you shouldn't.  A guy who for the month of December is shooting 67% and you act as though he doesn't deserve touches is lacking BBIQ..   It's this simple... You have a finisher.  You have a guy who will score down low.  USE HIM.  Does that mean you can't give him the ball at the top of the key and expect him to make 3 moves and get to the hoop... YES... He's not going to be a top of the key make three moves guy.  But what he is is an old school Low post or PNR player.  That means that the PG has to work and work with him. 

 

Maybe we have a different definition of "creating for himself", but Shaq and Ewing were some of the greatest back-to-the-basket post players ever. They created for themselves just by getting position in the post and ISO'd their defender with a postup. Dwight Howard is not that and will never be that.... It is literally a proven fact that he is not that type of Center. He wanted to be that type because Shaq would knock his inability to postup early in his career, but the stats prove it just isn't for him. So when you say that Dwight is a "dominant post center" I seriously have to question what you are watching that makes you come to that conclusion.