Sap is gone to Denver

[KB21]

7 minutes ago, Dejay said:

But if you're getting pulled over at the rate that the Hawks bomb picks in the lottery, I don't know about you but I'm taking out the GPS and finding another route. Color me cynical...

It's not just the Hawks though, and I think this is what people don't understand.  Look at the 76ers.  Their first pick in their "rebuild" was Nerlens Noel.  He's no longer with the team.  Their 2nd pick in that rebuild has played a total of 31 games in 3 years.  Their third pick in that rebuild was Jahlil Okafor.  Their 4th and 5th picks haven't even played a single minute in the NBA. 

Look at the Orlando Magic, and pay attention to that one because there are more similarities there than most will want to admit.  Rob Hennigan was the hot shot young assistant GM who was part of the OKC Thunder organization.  He decided to rebuild after Dwight (isn't it interesting the carnage he leaves behind almost everywhere he goes).  He didn't survive that rebuild, and the Magic are still in that process. 

[tonegully]

Tony Ressler takes some of this blame too. He needs to NOT make any basketball decisions. thanks for Dwight howard..that was a waste

[Dejay]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

It's not just the Hawks though, and I think this is what people don't understand.  Look at the 76ers.  Their first pick in their "rebuild" was Nerlens Noel.  He's no longer with the team.  Their 2nd pick in that rebuild has played a total of 31 games in 3 years.  Their third pick in that rebuild was Jahlil Okafor.  Their 4th and 5th picks haven't even played a single minute in the NBA. 

Look at the Orlando Magic, and pay attention to that one because there are more similarities there than most will want to admit.  Rob Hennigan was the hot shot young assistant GM who was part of the OKC Thunder organization.  He decided to rebuild after Dwight (isn't it interesting the carnage he leaves behind almost everywhere he goes).  He didn't survive that rebuild, and the Magic are still in that process. 

I get it. Folks want to pretend that the next Lebron or Durant is waiting to come down from the sky for the Hawks to select when they are one of the worst drafting teams in professional sports...

[Admin]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Who is to say that Schlenk is that??

What's the guys Philosophy again??  Sounds generic to me. 

Who's to say that he's not?

And despite what you wanted to hear he was absolutely honest about how he was going to build this team.

1. Avoid signing bad free agent contracts.
2. Maintain flexibility where when the time is right to make big moves we are ready for it and completely capable of doing it.
3. We probably won't be able to pay Millsap what he wants. Clearly he meant annually and not total dollars.
4. We would be a team who competes and in the last month of the season we have a shot at the playoffs. 

Now, the Dwight situation. I believe his words were that Dwight has a place on THIS team. We are no longer THAT team. Had the direction been decided that we were going to keep Millsap then yes Dwight absolutely could have had a role on THAT team. He had also been the GM what 2-3 days by then? You think he had time to talk to everyone in the organization and get their thoughts on the team by that point? 

[swanlee]

53 minutes ago, Dolfan23 said:

That's exactly it. The fickle Atlanta fans don't make it easy for them either. They won't show up unless you're the best team in the league or another star is in town they can cheer for. 

Everyone needs to realize that teams usually make mistakes in going one direction and it's difficult to stop, drop dead weight, and head a new direction. This group may screw up too but at least they're starting over instead of riding out that 38-42 win treadmill team we were headed towards. 

We have a ton of cap space, 5+ talented young guys who could all end up being good or better players and someone regarded as one of the better coaches who appears to be willing to go through this process with them. 

Keep in mind what Miami did last year. Did they get a lot back for losing LeBron, Bosh, and DWade? Nope and that group is far better than the group we lost. So they signed bargain players, hit the jackpot with Whiteside and let their young veteran PG lead that group from a terrible start to the best team in the 2nd half of last season and a very bright future ahead of them. 

Please try and see the forest people and stop staring at the trees right in front of you. 

Stop blaming Fans, ATL sports teams have been some of the worst run teams in Major league sports on a consistent basis since the 1960's. At some point as a fan you just have to walk away cause the enjoyment of being a Fan is outweighed by decades of pain. When being a fan is more painful then finding another hobby then you walk away.

[Dejay]

Just now, swanlee said:

Stop blaming Fans, ATL sports teams have been some of the worst run teams in Major league sports on a consistent basis since the 1960's. At some point as a fan you just have to walk away cause the enjoyment of being a Fan is outweighed by decades of pain. When being a fan is more painful then finding another hobby then you walk away.

Don't let me get the tambourines back out. I'm getting the Holy Ghost over here with that post...

[Admin]

12 minutes ago, Dejay said:

When they have the list of stiffs as lottery choices, uh, YES. You don't just write off Marvin Williams over Chris Paul or Jon Koncak over three HOFers and say, 'well, they'll get it right this time around'. You remember every single time Marvin fell all over himself with the ball and every time Adam Keefe had his own shot blocked by the refs a foot shorter than he is. 

Don't get me wrong, I know that they don't have a choice at this point. That doesn't mean that I have to like it. And based on the way they have historically done business, I won't until proven differently...

I'm just saying if you want to be the credit bureau then you have to forgive and forget at some point. We are a different team than we were in the 80's / 90's / 00's than we are now and not a single person in the organization from an ownership, management, coaching or player standpoint were around then. 

[Diesel]

“Our goal is still to be competitive,” Schlenk said before the draft. “Being competitive and maintaining our flexibility, that’s still where we are. We are not in a rebuild phase.”  “We want to be exciting,” Schlenk told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. “We are going to play an exciting brand of basketball. We want to be competitive. We want fans to show up every night thinking we have a chance to win. Fans in Philly, I don’t think they felt that way. That’s not our goal. If we make the playoffs, great. If we miss out one year, it’s not the end of the world. We just have a chance to get a better player. Our goal is to be competitive.”

 

One of the things about a GM is that a GM needs to have a overriding Philosophy.  Something that is behind every move he makes.   Listening to Schlenk, he brings that same "I don't know what the hell I'm doing" speak as Rick Sund did.  It's nothing.  He's not the architect of Golden State.. nor is he a close disciple of that.   He's a guy who worked in GS and was a scout but we dont really know who he scouted.  Ressler just grabbed a piece of the winner's circle thinking that winning rubs off.  It doesn't if you don't have the same philosophy and opportunity. 

When BK showed up... he was Cowboy diplomacy but he had an overriding plan.  Long, Athletic, Versatile.  Every player he picked (even though we hated some of them) fit that bill.   When Ferry showed up, he was similar to BK Athletic and Versatile and a GOOD GUY.   What Ferry brought to Atlanta were Guys who were specialist and were good guys who could meld together and make a team. 

What we will be saying about Schlenk in a few years is He didn't know what he didn't know.  He's Naive to believe that the path we are taking now will keep us out of the playoffs 1 year.   Please.  We are on a Journey that will span longer than Bud and Schlenk.  He just don't know. Lurker knows but he doesn't.   Bottom line is go ahead and invest in your draft party materials.   I got a new Smoker so every draft day, i will be smoking something.  I guess we can have draft lottery parties too.  But us sniffing the playoffs again... even getting to the same level we are leaving now... will take years... maybe even a decade.  Buckle up.  GM has NO Philosophy. 

 

 

[Sothron]

24 minutes ago, Dejay said:

But if you're getting pulled over at the rate that the Hawks bomb picks in the lottery, I don't know about you but I'm taking out the GPS and finding another route. Color me cynical...

That's in the past with different people. I mean if we never rebuild then what happens? We stick to Millsap until he's 40 and hope he can find us an 8th seed until then?

[Randy]

28 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Schlenk was purely posturing with Dwight and you badly fell for it. He wanted Dwight out of his hair immediately and his first order was ship him off.

Uh, he doesn't have any hair.  I guess I don't either.....

 

Edited July 3, 2017 by Randy
add something

[DBac]

Schlenk redeemed himself from the Dwight trade last night. 

[DJlaysitup]

 

(from Denverpost.com)

The Nuggets landed one of the most significant free agents in franchise history Sunday night, agreeing to a three-year, $90 million deal with power forward Paul Millsap, a league source confirmed.

Millsap was an all-star with the Atlanta Hawks each of the last four seasons and gives the Nuggets an impact frontcourt presence alongside center Nikola Jokic. The 11-year veteran should provide an immediate impact for a young roster that finished one game out of the Western Conference playoff picture last season.

The contract, which can’t be officially signed until Friday, has a team option for the third year.

Millsap averaged 18.1 points, 7.7 rebounds and 3.7 assists per game last season

[Diesel]

10 minutes ago, Dolfan23 said:

Who's to say that he's not?

And despite what you wanted to hear he was absolutely honest about how he was going to build this team.

1. Avoid signing bad free agent contracts.
2. Maintain flexibility where when the time is right to make big moves we are ready for it and completely capable of doing it.
3. We probably won't be able to pay Millsap what he wants. Clearly he meant annually and not total dollars.
4. We would be a team who competes and in the last month of the season we have a shot at the playoffs. 

Now, the Dwight situation. I believe his words were that Dwight has a place on THIS team. We are no longer THAT team. Had the direction been decided that we were going to keep Millsap then yes Dwight absolutely could have had a role on THAT team. He had also been the GM what 2-3 days by then? You think he had time to talk to everyone in the organization and get their thoughts on the team by that point? 

What you're missing is that we're losing guys and getting back negative value and you say it's for financial flexibility.  OK... Haven't you noticed that:

Financial Flexibility + Young Team = Eating Bad Contracts for good teams?

Don't tell me that our GM is not about eating bad contracts when Plumlee is waiving from the bench.  In this CBA, Financial Flexibility is worthless towards getting good free agents.  Because everybody is ring chasing.  Welcome to the Superteam Era Dol.   The League is not going to stop Superteams.  So what there will be are a handful of good teams and the rest of us fighting over the leftovers... Sorta like America..  The top 5% with all the wealth and the other 95% fighting over the scraps. 

Bottom line... we're not getting better.  We will be drafting players and even if they are good, we are going to have a hard time convincing them to stay in this condition.  We are a feeder team. 

 

 

[Admin]

11 minutes ago, KB21 said:

It's not just the Hawks though, and I think this is what people don't understand.  Look at the 76ers.  Their first pick in their "rebuild" was Nerlens Noel.  He's no longer with the team.  Their 2nd pick in that rebuild has played a total of 31 games in 3 years.  Their third pick in that rebuild was Jahlil Okafor.  Their 4th and 5th picks haven't even played a single minute in the NBA. 

Look at the Orlando Magic, and pay attention to that one because there are more similarities there than most will want to admit.  Rob Hennigan was the hot shot young assistant GM who was part of the OKC Thunder organization.  He decided to rebuild after Dwight (isn't it interesting the carnage he leaves behind almost everywhere he goes).  He didn't survive that rebuild, and the Magic are still in that process. 

Hinkie tried something no GM has ever done. It looks like his plan is well on its way despite him being dropped. Time will tell but he took some gambles and their city responded by selling out season tickets in record time. The Hawks have never, ever had that happen.

Hennigan was an analytics guy and very young as well. Schlenk is more than 10 years older than Hennigan was when hired. Hennigan spent 4 years with OKC and Schlenk had 12 with Golden State. Jerry West, arguably among the top GMs ever, said that Schlenk will be a great GM. I don't recall him making any claims about Hennigan. 

So your comparisons simply don't even come remotely close to what the Hawks are doing. 

And you are unable to find even 1 example of a championship team being built with your idea of how it should be done. 

[NekiEcko]

First of all, I THINK everybody in here should saw the writing on the wall.  That we don't have the talent to deal with the Cavs, C's, or the Raptors plus we don't have the youth of the Bucks and 76ers or veteran moxie like the Hornets and Heat.  Right now, this team needs a reboot and I think this is way over due.

If you can make a roster that is going to get deeper in the playoffs than the roster we had last year or any year, then I got some land to sell to you in Alaska.  It sucks and it might take a while but all of this happen because of the owner and Front Office short sightless and they need to know when its time to start over. 

[Watchman]

3 minutes ago, Dolfan23 said:

Hinkie tried something no GM has ever done. It looks like his plan is well on its way despite him being dropped. Time will tell but he took some gambles and their city responded by selling out season tickets in record time. The Hawks have never, ever had that happen.

Hennigan was an analytics guy and very young as well. Schlenk is more than 10 years older than Hennigan was when hired. Hennigan spent 4 years with OKC and Schlenk had 12 with Golden State. Jerry West, arguably among the top GMs ever, said that Schlenk will be a great GM. I don't recall him making any claims about Hennigan. 

So your comparisons simply don't even come remotely close to what the Hawks are doing. 

And you are unable to find even 1 example of a championship team being built with your idea of how it should be done. 

Jerry's getting old now.  Oxygen deprivation...

[swanlee]

12 minutes ago, Dolfan23 said:

I'm just saying if you want to be the credit bureau then you have to forgive and forget at some point. We are a different team than we were in the 80's / 90's / 00's than we are now and not a single person in the organization from an ownership, management, coaching or player standpoint were around then. 

And yet ATL sports teams give us the same results over and over again. Only the Falcons are run well cause they have an actual Human being as an owner that actually gives a damn but even that can't escape the ATL sports curse having lost the SB in the worst possible way.

People gotta stop blaming fans for Decades upon Decades of horrible ATL sports teams, or teams that do just well enough to give you hope only to falter in the spot light.

[Admin]

6 minutes ago, swanlee said:

And yet ATL sports teams give us the same results over and over again. Only the Falcons are run well cause they have an actual Human being as an owner that actually gives a damn but even that can't escape the ATL sports curse having lost the SB in the worst possible way.

People gotta stop blaming fans for Decades upon Decades of horrible ATL sports teams, or teams that do just well enough to give you hope only to falter in the spot light.

I'm not saying it's solely the fans faults. The ownership and management has been majorly screwed up for 2 decades now. But what we have now in terms of an arena, an owner who's willing to spend, one of the better coaches in the league and a GM who seems to "get it" I would say we're in pretty damn good shape to build a team with. 

10 years ago we had the ASG and Billy Knight and Mike Woodson. The situations are almost as night and day as possible when you compare that to now. 

[Sothron]

No one is blaming fans. I get that some of you are upset but no one on this board is to blame. 

[swanlee]

4 minutes ago, Dolfan23 said:

I'm not saying it's solely the fans faults. The ownership and management has been majorly screwed up for 2 decades now. But what we have now in terms of an arena, an owner who's willing to spend, one of the better coaches in the league and a GM who seems to "get it" I would say we're in pretty damn good shape to build a team with. 

10 years ago we had the ASG and Billy Knight and Mike Woodson. The situations are almost as night and day as possible when you compare that to now. 

"I'm not saying it's solely the fans faults"

It's not the fans fault AT ALL,  just remove that argument from the conversation. The fault lies in the never ending barrage of Crappy owners/Corporate owners making horrible decisions and treating ATL teams like a tax write off instead of something worth investing in.

Even though the Falcons have not won a SB they have been the most consistently well run ATL team and it is not surprise it is because that Franchise has an owner who cares and the games are sold out.

 

Edited July 3, 2017 by swanlee