Starting Lineup Predictions

[Buzzard]

I think this lineup makes the most sense from Bud's perspective but watch out for them showcasing Bazemore and Plumlee in an effort to move them.

Dennis / Delaney / ???

Bazemore / Belineli / Dorsey

Prince / Bembry

Ilyasova / Collins

Dedmon / Muscala / Plumlee / Stone

I think Collins gets a starting spot real soon once the season begins. I also think we will see a lot of small ball lineups with Irsan at Power Forward and Collins at Center. Pencil in Muscala playing alongside Collins as well.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Buzzard

[hazer]

Menace

Gaze

Printz

Ilyasovavichkovchev

The Ded

[wolvetigers]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

I don't know what you mean...The staff should already know how to feature a player who has been on the roster for a year now.  Sounds crazy to me but if this is how you think a coach should operate so be it.  I just know Quinn has a vision already for his players before they play their 1st down for him.

Agreed with the Quinn comment, but damn man still too soon after that vision did seem to work in the superbowl. 

Back to our Hawks:

This is a completely different scenario..the Hawks were a playoff team when Bud arrived, now they are no where near a playoff birth..Plus we lost our best player Milsap (2nd leading scorer) and our 3rd leading scorer in Hardaway. This is a significant change, when you're running the offense through Milsap to now seeing who you should run the offense through all together....

As Hawks fans we are hoping Prince, Bembry, even Collins contribute significantly- but Coach Bud has to see how these guys will react being in starting roles, which means changing the rotation almost every other week. The good news is Hawks fans and ownership will learn right away if Prince, Collins, Bembry can be true starters and impact players in the league.

 

 

 

[Peoriabird]

On 7/13/2017 at 9:48 PM, wolvetigers said:

.

As Hawks fans we are hoping Prince, Bembry, even Collins contribute significantly- but Coach Bud has to see how these guys will react being in starting roles, which means changing the rotation almost every other week. The good news is Hawks fans and ownership will learn right away if Prince, Collins, Bembry can be true starters and impact players in the league.

 

 

 

Bud has the changing the line up thing down pat.  Dude was changing the line up constantly last year with Baze, Thabo, Korver hardaway in and out of the line all season. LOL!  But my point is that most great coaches have a vision.  They just don't randomly try things out to see how they work.  They know exactly what their players are capable of and stress to them during the offseason exactly what to work on both from a physical stand point and a skill stand point.  When I heard that a certain player we won't mention was working on 3's during the offseason instead of losing weight and improving his court vision and passing during summer pick up games, I was done.  Also when you saw Prince in summer league playing wild and out of control while taking terrible shots, that is not an indication that he has been coach well this off season.  Prince is a talent and you can see that he is a gifted shooter but man, he was flat out terrible in summer league and I blame the coaching staff.

[enrique]

4 hours ago, wolvetigers said:

The likely starting lineup will be:

PG: Dennis / 

SG: Bazemore / Belinelli

SF: Prince / Bembry

PF: Ilyasova / Collins /   ( No Collins won't start right away, once he learns Bud's system he may by Jan 18)

C:  Dedmond / Muscala / Dorsey

I'm with you except at C...might be forgetting our recent signings;)

[enrique]

2 hours ago, DBac said:

Even Quinn has moved guys. Vic went from LEO to SAM, Shede moved from DE to DT midseason.

Their vision for Bembry was being a playmaker. That was said draft night.

I don't think that vision of Bembry being a playmaker pushes him into a PG/SG role however. In Bud's system playmaking can happen from any position. I think testing Bembry physically at the 2 and 3 will let Bud see what he is really capable of. We certainly need some playmakers;)

[MrYellow]

6 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

That's one of many flaws with Bud's coaching.  Even when the metrics are obvious that a player thrives playing one position over the other like for example Bazemore was terrible at the 3 but was decent at the 2 position but Bud ignores those kinds of details.  Time for a change

If you agree (as you just did) that the 2 and 3 play interchangeably in Bud-system, how can you say Baze is better at the 2 than at the 3? It's a contradiction.

 

Once again, positions (not roles, positions) do NOT matter when you attack.

[Thomas]

1 hour ago, MrYellow said:

how can you say Baze is better at the 2 than at the 3? It's a contradiction.

Because Baze bites at SF on both offense and defense. Defensively he has at least a boxer's chance at SG. If he gets minutes at all at the SF it would be to back up Prince and hopefully because we brought in a better starter for SG and that is still remotely possible I guess.

[Thomas]

Being a totally experimental year and all what if we do bring in or trade for a SG that could possibly start. Two birds with one stone by having a hopefully better two way player such as Afflalo (41% from three last season) on a much cheaper and much shorter contract and reduce the time Baze is on the floor overall. Knowing that it is still more likely to be a warm body small forward that ends up here. Its not like we are gonna take forty two games this season anyway. The experimental ten man rotation here. PG-Dennis,Bembry  SG-?,Marco  SF-Prince,Baze  PF-Collins,Ersan  C-Dedmon,Moose

 

[MrYellow]

10 hours ago, Thomas said:

Because Baze bites at SF on both offense and defense. Defensively he has at least a boxer's chance at SG. If he gets minutes at all at the SF it would be to back up Prince and hopefully because we brought in a better starter for SG and that is still remotely possible I guess.

Sure, that can be absolutely true, but it's not what I was talking about...

Saying "a limit of Budball is that 2 and 3 are equivalent but Baze has played Better at the 2 than at the 3" is, per se, a contradiction.

Edited July 14, 2017 by MrYellow

[Plainview1981]

20 hours ago, wolvetigers said:

The likely starting lineup will be:

PG: Dennis / 

SG: Bazemore / Belinelli

SF: Prince / Bembry

PF: Ilyasova / Collins /   ( No Collins won't start right away, once he learns Bud's system he may by Jan 18)

C:  Dedmond / Muscala / Dorsey

This is what I suspect will happen.

I wouldn't be shocked if they start Bazemore and play him lots of minutes in the hopes that he will build his trade value up.

[GrimeyKidd]

Bud Ball:
PG Schröder

SG Belinelli

SF Prince

PF Ilyasova

C Muscala

 

Potential

PG Schröder

SG Bembry

SF Prince 

PF Collins

Dedmon

 

Vet Savy/Defense

PG Schröder

SG Bazemore

SF Prince

PF Illyasova

C Dedmon 

[sillent]

On 7/13/2017 at 7:43 PM, TheBigETrain said:

SF: Prince (Bazemore)

PF: Collins (Ilyasova, Muscala)

C: Dedmon (Plumlee, Stone)

PG: Schröder (Delaney, Magette)

SG: Bembry (Belinelli, Dorsey)

Agreed except Baze will be switched with Bembry atleast at the beginning of the season.

[Thomas]

On 7/14/2017 at 0:22 AM, enrique said:

I don't think that vision of Bembry being a playmaker pushes him into a PG/SG role however. In Bud's system playmaking can happen from any position. I think testing Bembry physically at the 2 and 3 will let Bud see what he is really capable of. We certainly need some playmakers;)

Yeah, Bembry has shown us some clips at all three of those positions this past season and defensively we already know he is a plus for us but the ball handling is going to be a major factor for his minutes. Just imagine if Jent helps him out with his long range game. We could see him all over the floor totaling some pretty nice minutes. Expecting a solid move up this season and the next one as well for him.

[turnermx]

Yeah, Bembry has shown us some clips at all three of those positions this past season and defensively we already know he is a plus for us but the ball handling is going to be a major factor for his minutes. Just imagine if Jent helps him out with his long range game. We could see him all over the floor totaling some pretty nice minutes. Expecting a solid move up this season and the next one as well for him.

Bembry wasn't a bad shooter in college. He has it in him. He's just got to get his confidence up to shoot at the pro level. Besides that he does everything else well like a young Andre Iguodala

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[benhillboy]

If I see the name "Baze" one more time.  Just look at that man numbers.  Look at em.  I don't even know how to explain a cumalutive -1.6 offensive win share for your career.  From a $17 million per guy too poorly skilled to play 2 and too small for 3.  Godspeed Schlenk.  Ain't no "showcasing" that.

Edited July 16, 2017 by benhillboy

[Peoriabird]

18 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

If I see the name "Baze" one more time.  Just look at that man numbers.  Look at em.  I don't even know how to explain a cumalutive -1.6 offensive win share for your career.  From a $17 million per guy too poorly skilled to play 2 and too small for 3.  Godspeed Schlenk.  Ain't no "showcasing" that.

For some reason, Posters have convinced themselves that Bembry would be worse.  Of course they have also convinced themselves that both Collins and Dedmon will be out performed by Muscala.  That's unfortunately what we are dealing with here

[RedDawg#8]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

For some reason, Posters have convinced themselves that Bembry would be worse.  Of course they have also convinced themselves that both Collins and Dedmon will be out performed by Muscala.  That's unfortunately what we are dealing with here

I think it's more  of a fear that Bud will play favorites and be more comfortable with the vets of his system (Baze, Moose, Ily) than allowing the young guys to prove themselves from day 1.

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I think it's more  of a fear that Bud will play favorites and be more comfortable with the vets of his system (Baze, Moose, Ily) than allowing the young guys to prove themselves from day 1.

Why not criticize Bud then...Message board members will start hundreds of threads unfairly criticizing ownership, the GM, and players but not 1 thread criticizing Bud...why not? If he is screwing up, where is the outrage...Bud was the one that didn't want Howard here but all I see is Schlenk this and Schleck that...can we be fair and balanced for a change? Or is that too much to ask?

[RedDawg#8]

On 7/13/2017 at 10:48 PM, wolvetigers said:

Agreed with the Quinn comment, but damn man still too soon after that vision did seem to work in the superbowl. 

Back to our Hawks:

This is a completely different scenario..the Hawks were a playoff team when Bud arrived, now they are no where near a playoff birth..Plus we lost our best player Milsap (2nd leading scorer) and our 3rd leading scorer in Hardaway. This is a significant change, when you're running the offense through Milsap to now seeing who you should run the offense through all together....

As Hawks fans we are hoping Prince, Bembry, even Collins contribute significantly- but Coach Bud has to see how these guys will react being in starting roles, which means changing the rotation almost every other week. The good news is Hawks fans and ownership will learn right away if Prince, Collins, Bembry can be true starters and impact players in the league.

 

 

 

I really think Bembry has a playmakers gene inside of him.  

I really think he needs to play alongside Dennis for the mere fact that Dennis is now our best scorer hands down. Having another ball handler like Bembry on the court allows Dennis to be in an attack mode that won't hurt the team because Bembry can get them into set and make the correct plays once the defense tries to take away Dennis. 

For example, Dennis gets trapped on a high pick and role, he finds Bembry who attacks the rotating defense and dumps a pass to the correct teammate for an easy bucket. 

I don't see Baze being able to consistently read the defense accurately without mishandling the ball or making a tough pass or forcing an off balanced runner.

Prince has the jumper, pump fake/drive thing down pat, but beyond that I don't know if he can consistently find guys. 

Bellineli can make smart reads but can't put pressure on the middle of the defense like Bembry. 

All things considered. Bembry should be a starter over Baze, but it won't happen for whatever reason. Just like THJ should have started from jump last year and Baze had to literally stink his way out of the line up (miss a couple of games to injury) for it to happen.

Dennis

Bembry

Prince

Collins

Dedmon

Thats your best 5 man lineup 

Ily is such a toss up at PF cuz he can shoot and pass very well which Bud loves. But Collins to me is going to be a really good player sooner than later and needs to grow on the court with the starters.  Collins and Bembry have great chemistry.

Id be ok with Ily and Bellineli starting at 2 and 4 just because of their shooting. But I'd rather the young guys fly around on the fast break than be a half court team again this year.