Homecourt Draft Discussion

[KB21]

Fouls is not a translatable stat to the NBA, and even if it were, players who give effort on defense tend to get fouls called on them.  

Draymond Green averaged 6.3 fouls per 40 minutes as a freshman at Michigan State while playing 11.4 MPG.  He's the best interior defender in the NBA.  Oh, BTW, this is what I said about Draymond before the 2012 draft over at Peachtree Hoops:

Quote

They will definitely like some more than others. I don’t know that they will openly talk about who they like in this way though. I would love for this to be true. Draymond Green has many of the qualities this team desperately needs relative to his basketball IQ and leadership ability. He has three strong qualities that have a very high correlation relative to transferring from college to the pros. Those qualities are his rebounding (which is third among power forwards and first among small forwards), his passing ability (very high assists rate and assists per field goal attempt for his position), and his shooting ability (34-36% on threes).

When you break down his offensive game, about 53% of his offense is on two point shots. He has an excellent mid range game. About 20% comes from three point shots, and about 20% from free throws. So, overall, his offense is really spaced out.

I’m still in the process of evaluating these prospects for myself, and I am taking more of an analytical approach than a traditional scouting approach with these players. Right now, my two favorites are Draymond Green and Jae Crowder.

Both players who were my favorites for the Hawks that year are excellent NBA players.

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Fouls is not a translatable stat to the NBA, and even if it were, players who give effort on defense tend to get fouls called on them.  

Draymond Green averaged 6.3 fouls per 40 minutes as a freshman at Michigan State while playing 11.4 MPG.  He's the best interior defender in the NBA.  Oh, BTW, this is what I said about Draymond before the 2012 draft over at Peachtree Hoops:

Both players who were my favorites for the Hawks that year are excellent NBA players.

Jae Crowder is an excellent player huh? So draft JJJ huh? Ummm...nah

[EazyRoc]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Fouls is not a translatable stat to the NBA, and even if it were, players who give effort on defense tend to get fouls called on them.  

Draymond Green averaged 6.3 fouls per 40 minutes as a freshman at Michigan State while playing 11.4 MPG.  He's the best interior defender in the NBA.  Oh, BTW, this is what I said about Draymond before the 2012 draft over at Peachtree Hoops:

Both players who were my favorites for the Hawks that year are excellent NBA players.

Draymond Green isn’t the best interior defender in the NBA. Stop the madness. Embiid and Gobert were miles ahead of everyone else.

[JayBirdHawk]

5 hours ago, DBac said:

Never realized how much I liked being able to see who liked a post until it's gone lol.

 

5 hours ago, Buzzard said:

To be honest you need to look at the number of likes vs the number of post. Your ratio is pretty good, 2 to 1 200%. Mine is only about 1 to 4  or 25% and Supes is around 1 to 2 at 50%. When I get one I go see what post it was to and we could before the changes see who gave it to us as well.

It is nice to get them; but they do not change my posting. Being wrong does that ;)

 

4 hours ago, kg01 said:

Dang.  Analytics has infiltrated the message board-a-sphere.

Also, I should add, my like-ratio reflects a bunch-a pity likes.

 

4 hours ago, Buzzard said:

I can't. My like quota is used up for the day.

 

4 hours ago, Sothron said:

I think most of us want to get you returning vets all your previous karma back as quickly as we can.

 

2 hours ago, lethalweapon3 said:

Relax, everyone. We won the draft already!

 

~thankyoubasedlw3

 

3 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I agree with @Sothron..and @kg01 and the rest of u...

 

But you do realize that I gotta treat my “likes” like gold pieces right? Like 1st round draft picks! GOLD.

 

ps Get away Ainge..

 

1 hour ago, hazer said:

I pity-like your pitiful lil’ pity parties all the time. Yore welcome, Kage 

Everybody gets a 'Like'.  Best I can do.

[KB21]

22 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

Draymond Green isn’t the best interior defender in the NBA. Stop the madness. Embiid and Gobert were miles ahead of everyone else.

Yeah.  Probably because Green isn't a 20 PPG scorer.  He's just the reigning defensive player of the year in the NBA.  That's all.

[EazyRoc]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Yeah.  Probably because Green isn't a 20 PPG scorer.  He's just the reigning defensive player of the year in the NBA.  That's all.

Huh ? What does scoring have to do with interior defense.

 

AND hes 13th on the DBPM so that must mean he’s not that good defensively, right?

[KB21]

1 minute ago, EazyRoc said:

Huh ? What does scoring have to do with interior defense.

 

AND hes 13th on the DBPM so that must mean he’s not that good defensively, right?

Because you obviously put more value on PPG as a marker of player value rather than their actual all around game.

[nathan2331]

Because you obviously put more value on PPG as a marker of player value rather than their actual all around game.

Just because a player is hyped by the media, doesn't mean they aren't good on their own merits. JJJ isn't a defensive prodigy. Aside from his length, I don't think he's much more advanced than Bagley at this stage. He blocks a lot of shots because he contests damn near everything regardless if he has the position or not. I don't think he anticipates things particularly well which is a big part of playing defense. Bagley isn't a rim protector, but he most certainly can block more shots if he's played closer to the rim in the NBA. I'd be shocked if Bagley busts wherever he lands, he wants to be great and has shown everyone every stage he's played on. JJJ could be great too, but I'm not selecting him #3, he has a lot more parts of his game to develop.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

13 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Because you obviously put more value on PPG as a marker of player value rather than their actual all around game.

 

Just because a player is hyped by the media, doesn't mean they aren't good on their own merits. JJJ isn't a defensive prodigy. Aside from his length, I don't think he's much more advanced than Bagley at this stage. He blocks a lot of shots because he contests damn near everything regardless if he has the position or not. I don't think he anticipates things particularly well which is a big part of playing defense. Bagley isn't a rim protector, but he most certainly can block more shots if he's played closer to the rim in the NBA. I'd be shocked if Bagley busts wherever he lands, he wants to be great and has shown everyone every stage he's played on. JJJ could be great too, but I'm not selecting him #3, he has a lot more parts of his game to develop.

JJJ anticipates things on defense at an elite level.  I don't know what you are anyone else is watching.  This guy is a rim protector.  He's switchable.  He can guard in isolation.  You will not find any credible writer that covers the draft who says that JJJ is "just a shot blocker".  No.  Mo Bamba is just a shot blocker.  JJJ is an elite defender.

[KB21]

Also, I almost choked on my coffee at the comment that JJJ isn't much more advanced as a defender as Bagley.  Bagley can't defend a stationary chair.  JJJ shuts his opponent down.

[nathan2331]

Also, I almost choked on my coffee at the comment that JJJ isn't much more advanced as a defender as Bagley.  Bagley can't defend a stationary chair.  JJJ shuts his opponent down.

How can JJJ shut down his opponents when he's not even on the floor?

[EazyRoc]

22 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Because you obviously put more value on PPG as a marker of player value rather than their actual all around game.

I have no idea what you’re talking about. You said (I’m paraphrasing) “Draymond Green is the best interior defender in the NBA” and I said “Embiid and Gobert were better interior defenders.” Then you bring up PPG. I’m lost.

 

P.S. ‘Squawk- Which one of y’all posted the info graphic showing the Opp. FG% around the basket for each big ?

[Buzzard]

4 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Also, I almost choked on my coffee at the comment that JJJ isn't much more advanced as a defender as Bagley.  Bagley can't defend a stationary chair.  JJJ shuts his opponent down.

 

How can JJJ shut down his opponents when he's not even on the floor?

No answer for that one. The most basic concept in basketball at any age: do not commit stupid fouls, do get into foul trouble, and do not foul out of a game. KB's perfect coach probably says "Don't worry about the fouls Mr Jackson. We have a 12 team roster in the NBA and pros miss all their free throws anyway!"

[Buzzard]

Just now, Buzzard said:

No answer for that one. The most basic concept in basketball at any age: do not commit stupid fouls, do get into foul trouble, and do not foul out of a game. KB's perfect coach probably says "Don't worry about the fouls Mr Jackson. We have a 12 team roster in the NBA and pros miss all their free throws anyway!"

Fixed:

No answer for that one. The most basic concept in basketball at any age: do not commit stupid fouls, do get into foul trouble, and do not foul out of a game. KB's perfect coach probably says "Don't worry about the fouls Mr Jackson. We have a 12 man roster in the NBA and pros miss all their free throws anyway!"

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

He does all of that right now.  I take it that you have bought into the Bagley hype, which is all there is to him because there is no substance to his game.  I'm pretty sure Schlenk will take Bagley in the draft.  Then, the Hawks will have duplicate players who get in each other's way while neither play strong defense or offer any rim protection at all.  But hey, we have to ensure that we are losing for the next 3 years.

No, I just want to start with Trae Young.  He is an eyes up point guard. IMHO, that is the best way to build a team.  You get an eyes up point guard, 2 deadly shooters, 2 elite crashers and play defense before a team starts it set.  We have Collins as a crasher and Prince is developing as that shooter. I'd like Young, add a sniper SG and an athletic big who can crash as well as step out.  But you don't see an offensive talent like Trae Young but maybe once every 5 years.  You take him.

[Buzzard]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

No, I just want to start with Trae Young.  He is an eyes up point guard. IMHO, that is the best way to build a team.  You get an eyes up point guard, 2 deadly shooters, 2 elite crashers and play defense before a team starts it set.  We have Collins as a crasher and Prince is developing as that shooter. I'd like Young, add a sniper SG and an athletic big who can crash as well as step out.  But you don't see an offensive talent like Trae Young but maybe once every 5 years.  You take him.

The two PGs are my sleepers who could make 6 to 7 GMs look very foolish if they pan out.

[thecampster]

I said the same thing about Lauri Markkanen last year. I was clear, he has a skill set you don't see in a power forward but once every 3-5 years. I was clear that every team that passed on him will regret it.  I feel exactly the same way about Trae Young.  For me, there is no there is no other player at the top of this draft. You saw his offensive base plus minus. It is off the charts. His very presence changes everything another team does defensive.

 

[thecampster]

Those stats are the thing of elite SG's, SF's and PF's.  PG's and C's don't post those OBPM stats. Young did as a freshman. 

[KB21]

23 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

24 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Also, I almost choked on my coffee at the comment that JJJ isn't much more advanced as a defender as Bagley.  Bagley can't defend a stationary chair.  JJJ shuts his opponent down.

 

How can JJJ shut down his opponents when he's not even on the floor?

Michigan State gave up 86 points per 100 possessions when JJJ is on the floor; 98 points per 100 possessions when he's off the floor.  His defensive impact is clearly overstated.  

[thecampster]

You aren't wrong about Jackson being a solid pick. But power forwards are a dime a dozen in the NBA.  Think about Millsap. He was a bench player in Utah, we brought him here and he became an all-star. There is a bevy of talent at that position in the NBA and that is not a pick that wins.  Think of the impact Butler had in Minny this year.  They already had an elite big but so what. Every team has one.  But a team with an elite PG/SG/SF is an immediate playoff team. 50% of the time, they will blow their opponent in the NBA out.  PG/SG especially because of durability, speed issues as the players age.   Consider Jeff Teague.  His skill set was built on speed because he wasn't an eyes up type of point guard.  He is now average to below average and is not quite 30 years old.  There are plenty of fast PGs out there, but skilled is a different thing. Most come into the league fast and have to be taught body control and shooting.  Young already has those 2 things down.