Does Alex Len have any upside?

[enrique]

On 8/9/2019 at 1:34 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

 

 

Okay @JAYBIRDHAWK  how do you get a link to become an imbedded piece? I have tried a few times and only end up with a link...trying to get better at posting things in here.

Thanks for any help ahead of time:)

Edited August 11, 2019 by enrique

[High5]

4 hours ago, enrique said:

Okay @JAYBIRDHAWK  how do you get a link to become an imbedded piece? I have tried a few times and only end up with a link...trying to get better at posting things in here.

Thanks for any help ahead of time:)

It might be because the link is being pasted as "rich text." That's the problem I had before. You need to click "Paste as plain text instead" and the tweet will show up. 

 

[Gray Mule]

 How deep are the Hawks at center?

Spud sees Damian Jones as a potential starting center.  Everyone else seems to have him as the forgotten man.  Len is ranked #1 as starter with Bruno Fernando being his backup.  Some posters believe that center is our weak link in our starting chain and we have no one capable of being a backup.

Alex Len, we read, is working hard to improve his talents as a center.  Bruno is considered the backup, due to his draft position.  Hawks had him much higher and when they were able to grab him, they were on cloud nine.  Collins is their "small ball" center.  Spud and I believe that someone is missing something.

Damian Jones may be, as some suspect, a lost cause.  That our GM made a terrible error when he traded Spellman for what they consider "nothing."

Only time will tell how deep the Hawks are at both center and PG.

[NBASupes]

I don't see a lot in Jones but he is who he is. Len on the other hand has more potential but his defense is just really bad. It's not terrible for a backup center but it is for a starter. While Jones is just a net neutral defender. He has good and bad but when you are playing with Trae and John, can we afford another meh defender.

[Spud2nique]

57 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Spud and I believe that someone is missing something.

 

[Spud2nique]

I think Trae can make Jones look pretty respectable around the rim, I’m not saying Len’s outside game has a negative impact on the Hawks I’m just saying as constructed, Jones can give us a better boost as a starter. Just my opinion. I’m hoping both come into camp wanting to start and battle it out. 

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

On 7/18/2019 at 4:20 PM, High5 said:

It's weird how many people seemed surprised by the possibility of Len starting. I just assumed everyone knew that was going to happen as soon as we didn't bring Dedmon back. 

I'm excited to see what a full year of development with Pierce and Trae looks like for Len. He needs to do whatever he can to work on his hands. 

I like a front court of Len & Collins.  It's the situation we never gave Horford and Collins is a far superior athlete. Both are inside-out players, but they both can hit the 3-ball.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Gray Mule said:

 How deep are the Hawks at center?

Spud sees Damian Jones as a potential starting center.  Everyone else seems to have him as the forgotten man.  Len is ranked #1 as starter with Bruno Fernando being his backup.  Some posters believe that center is our weak link in our starting chain and we have no one capable of being a backup.

Alex Len, we read, is working hard to improve his talents as a center.  Bruno is considered the backup, due to his draft position.  Hawks had him much higher and when they were able to grab him, they were on cloud nine.  Collins is their "small ball" center.  Spud and I believe that someone is missing something.

Damian Jones may be, as some suspect, a lost cause.  That our GM made a terrible error when he traded Spellman for what they consider "nothing."

Only time will tell how deep the Hawks are at both center and PG.

Posted this in another thread...Talks about Jones possible defensive impact.

 

 

[Spud2nique]

Ya Jones is an animal on D and around the hoop with the flushes and runs the floor like a . He’s got a lot of bouncibility on both ends and actually helps us with the one thing we lacked the most, rim protection. A swat here and there gets Trae on the fast break and good things happen.

I think squawkers will be pleased with Damian overall and at the same time, we will want him to expand in other areas that have seem tougher to grasp thus far in his career but a change of scenery could be everything he’s needed.

Im excited to see some oop flushes from Trae to Dame.  

[AHF]

@Spud2nique  I think you are very optimistic on a guy who has played for 3 seasons and has roughly the same number of minutes played as Priest Lauderdale had in 2 seasons.  I think we decided we didn't want Spellman and unloaded him and as matching salary ended up picking up an expiring contract big who could play a limited role as a defender and rim roller.  If he turns out to be more like you are predicting (a healthy starter who elevates his game playing with Trae), I'll be very happy with and for him.  I'm hoping to be surprised but if it is happens that is what I'll be:  surprised.

[Spud2nique]

22 minutes ago, AHF said:

@Spud2nique  I think you are very optimistic on a guy who has played for 3 seasons and has roughly the same number of minutes played as Priest Lauderdale had in 2 seasons.  I think we decided we didn't want Spellman and unloaded him and as matching salary ended up picking up an expiring contract big who could play a limited role as a defender and rim roller.  If he turns out to be more like you are predicting (a healthy starter who elevates his game playing with Trae), I'll be very happy with and for him.  I'm hoping to be surprised but if it is happens that is what I'll be:  surprised.

I’m not saying the guy is a world beater by any means I’m just saying that he isn’t the stiff that his numbers indicate. He’s never going to be a focal point for the defense to try and stop Or game plan for but at the same time if you let him run free without getting a body on him he will get loose and leave you with a Spalding imprint on the old forehead.

 

Like I said I hope all the center and the rest of the players come into camp and fight for their respective positions.

[hazer]

3 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Spud and I believe that someone is missing something.

Don’t leave out ole @hazer over here. I’ve been hollerin’ for weeks that Len/Jones/Bruno/Collins is neither a shallow nor weak C lineup. Honestly, how often do you even see 3rd string Cs in the game, barring injury? With 27mins/nt Len will put up 16/8/1+, Collins will get some small-ball mins, and Jones/Bruno will split the rest. Injury? Then you just bring somebody else in. I actually like our C lineup. Let me add, however, that I believe one of our max contracts next year will go to a star C. Len/Jones/Bruno/Collins isn’t our long term plan.

[AHF]

22 minutes ago, hazer said:

Don’t leave out ole @hazer over here. I’ve been hollerin’ for weeks that Len/Jones/Bruno/Collins is neither a shallow nor weak C lineup. Honestly, how often do you even see 3rd string Cs in the game, barring injury? With 27mins/nt Len will put up 16/8/1+, Collins will get some small-ball mins, and Jones/Bruno will split the rest. Injury? Then you just bring somebody else in. I actually like our C lineup. Let me add, however, that I believe one of our max contracts next year will go to a star C. Len/Jones/Bruno/Collins isn’t our long term plan.

For next season, what teams do you see with a weaker rotation at center than us?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

16 minutes ago, hazer said:

Don’t leave out ole @hazer over here. I’ve been hollerin’ for weeks that Len/Jones/Bruno/Collins is neither a shallow nor weak C lineup. Honestly, how often do you even see 3rd string Cs in the game, barring injury? With 27mins/nt Len will put up 16/8/1+, Collins will get some small-ball mins, and Jones/Bruno will split the rest. Injury? Then you just bring somebody else in. I actually like our C lineup. Let me add, however, that I believe one of our max contracts next year will go to a star C. Len/Jones/Bruno/Collins isn’t our long term plan.

I think some of you are discounting what 16 / 8 / 1 really is.  

These are the guys that averaged at least 16 ppg - 8 rebs - 1 blk:

- Caplea

- Embiid

- Davis

- Towns

- Aldridge ( and he's traditionally been known as a PF )

- Vucevic

- Drummond

- and Demarcus Cousins

 

16/8/1 makes Len a top 10 center in the league. Do we really let him walk, if he can put up those kinds of numbers?

 

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I think some of you are discounting what 16 / 8 / 1 really is.  

These are the guys that averaged at least 16 ppg - 8 rebs - 1 blk:

- Caplea

- Embiid

- Davis

- Towns

- Aldridge ( and he's traditionally been known as a PF )

- Vucevic

- Drummond

- and Demarcus Cousins

 

16/8/1 makes Len a top 10 center in the league. Do we really let him walk, if he can put up those kinds of numbers?

 

I agree that putting up those numbers would put him in a very limited class of players but being among that group doesn't mean he is on the level of that group.  The median numbers for that group were actually 21.3 ppg, 12.4 rpg, and 1.5 bpg.  16/8/1 is roughly 2/3 of what you are getting (usually with the stars above providing better defense as well).

[JayBirdHawk]

20 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I think some of you are discounting what 16 / 8 / 1 really is.  

These are the guys that averaged at least 16 ppg - 8 rebs - 1 blk:

- Caplea

- Embiid

- Davis

- Towns

- Aldridge ( and he's traditionally been known as a PF )

- Vucevic

- Drummond

- and Demarcus Cousins

 

16/8/1 makes Len a top 10 center in the league. Do we really let him walk, if he can put up those kinds of numbers?

 

Yeah. 

I see Len minutes topping out at 26-27 minutes a game (he's average 20 minutes for most of his career).

I see him averaging in the range of 14ppg/7rpg.

I hope he exceeds my expectations.

Edited.

[hazer]

10 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I think some of you are discounting what 16 / 8 / 1 really is.  

These are the guys that averaged at least 16 ppg - 8 rebs - 1 blk:

- Caplea

- Embiid

- Davis

- Towns

- Aldridge ( and he's traditionally been known as a PF )

- Vucevic

- Drummond

- and Demarcus Cousins

 

16/8/1 makes Len a top 10 center in the league. Do we really let him walk, if he can put up those kinds of numbers?

 

I’m not underestimating it, have posted in this thread before if Len actually pulls off 16/8/1 he needs to be re-signed. Those nimbers are aspirational in my eyes, something I’m hoping he can live up to.

[hazer]

“Collins and Len have logged 140 minutes together at the power forward and center positions. Lineups with this configuration have produced a net rating of +11.2. The defensive rebound rate of 76.9 percent is better than any team’s season-long mark in the league. The offensive production is representative of a top-5 offense, as measured by both effective field goal percentage and true shooting percentage,

Len’s growing confidence as a shooter help this duo function relatively well on offense. Len works with solid footwork in the pick-and-roll but can’t work at the high pace Collins exudes in every part of his game. Defensively, they, in the available sample size, have produced a defensive rating that is better than the mark of the best defensive team in the league. Len’s sheer size in combination with his decent mobility help offset some of the defensive liability presented by Collins’ lack of length.”

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/platform/amp/2019/1/8/18172697/atlanta-hawks-john-collins-center-power-forward-big-man-future-analysis

Edited August 13, 2019 by hazer

[hazer]

11 minutes ago, hazer said:

“Collins and Len have logged 140 minutes together at the power forward and center positions. Lineups with this configuration have produced a net rating of +11.2. The defensive rebound rate of 76.9 percent is better than any team’s season-long mark in the league. The offensive production is representative of a top-5 offense, as measured by both effective field goal percentage and true shooting percentage,

Len’s growing confidence as a shooter help this duo function relatively well on offense. Len works with solid footwork in the pick-and-roll but can’t work at the high pace Collins exudes in every part of his game. Defensively, they, in the available sample size, have produced a defensive rating that is better than the mark of the best defensive team in the league. Len’s sheer size in combination with his decent mobility help offset some of the defensive liability presented by Collins’ lack of length.”

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/platform/amp/2019/1/8/18172697/atlanta-hawks-john-collins-center-power-forward-big-man-future-analysis

These are the nimbers Colonel Schlank is eyeing and counting on. If Collins/Len replicate that production this season, if Oleksiy puts up 16/8/1 in 27mins/nt, Hawks make the playoffs and you gotta re-sign him.

[AHF]

Quote

Collins and Len have logged 140 minutes together at the power forward and center positions. Lineups with this configuration have produced a net rating of +11.2. The defensive rebound rate of 76.9 percent is better than any team’s season-long mark in the league. 

That is impressive success but we could see them log more minutes together in the first two weeks of the season than that lineup has seen.  I don't think that level of success is sustainable over a larger sample but I'd love to be surprised.