How Badly do we need a Center???

[AHF]

Embiid is the only great center in that bunch.  Horford is a very good PF/c.  Morris isn’t a center at all.  Gasol is well past his prime but still able to contibute. Lopez is a role player.

[NBASupes]

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

Last year playoffs EC Final 4.

Boston - Horford

Milwaukee - Lopez

Toronto -  Gasol

Philly - Embiid

 

IF you don't understand the need for a good to great Center, then you want to go out in the 2nd round like Boston AT BEST.

 

Adams is not as good as those guys. Those guys are all stars in this league. 

[AHF]

Just now, Diesel said:

Oh.. You mean that guy that lived, ate, and Slept with Mike Miller as his trainer all year last year.... Who's summer league efficiency from 3 was about 43%?   That guy?

OK.  thanks for the clarification. 

 

He described someone whose shooting is “meh”.  That isn’t good.  

You are starting a different narrative.  He may we’ll be a good shooter now (I place zero value on summer stats thought) but that is a completely different profile than what Supes described.

[Diesel]

Just now, AHF said:

Embiid is the only great center in that bunch.  Horford is a very good PF/c.  Morris isn’t a center at all.  Gasol is well past his prime but still able to contibute. Lopez is a role player.

All of them are miles better than Len or anybody we have right now.  I'm not saying that we need Embiid. That would be awesome... BUT... I'm saying that we need better than what we have unless our destination is 2nd round out. 

 

1 minute ago, AHF said:

He described someone whose shooting is “meh”.  That isn’t good.  

You are starting a different narrative.  He may we’ll be a good shooter now (I place zero value on summer stats thought) but that is a completely different profile than what Supes described.

Get the update.  Stop looking at the 2018 scouting report. 

 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

Oh.. You mean that guy that lived, ate, and Slept with Mike Miller as his trainer all year last year.... Who's summer league efficiency from 3 was about 43%?   That guy?

OK.  thanks for the clarification. 

 

He took 7 3s in 4 games. That's under 2 threes a game playing 21 mpg. That's not a lot at all. That's barely any volume. He scored 4.5 ppg in SL. Come on Diesel, you trolling us

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

He described someone whose shooting is “meh”.  That isn’t good.  

You are starting a different narrative.  He may we’ll be a good shooter now (I place zero value on summer stats thought) but that is a completely different profile than what Supes described.

I think he might have seen the DAL/OKC game and got hyped. Bazley had a great game v. the Mavs. His numbers looked fantastic in spot mins. This is the time of the year where you hear things like, Boston's Kelly O might be the next Dirk. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

20 hours ago, Diesel said:

Sorry but Len Sucks and there's a long non-guaranteed wait on developing a Center. 

However, Steven Adams is available. 

Would you dangle Reddish out there in order to get Adams?

off top...  Reddish/Chandler for Adams/Bazley?

or maybe something with Len and Turner?

 

Reddiiiissshhhhhh?      REDDISH?

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

11 hours ago, JTB said:

Let me add that Bruno learning from a player like Adams would be great too.

 

let me also add that John Collins is not a 5! He is a 4! ....positionless basketball my ass....there’s nothing wrong with JC playing the 4 full time. He will not be outsized by weight or length at the 4 full time and I think we’ll get our 2nd season JC back if not a better one .

when will this franchise stop with the small center shit. Do people realize even if collins was a good defender and always in the right spot at the right time and even contested well on most shots that he STILL will get phased out by bully ball?????....that’s al horford all over again in a nutshell. YOU CAN NOT DEFEND POWER if you don’t have any power to match the power.

 

 I’m ranting again....smh....the team did well last night I just don’t think the bully ball allowed is over completely so please ignore my post as i can’t help to bring it up until I see it completely stopped for the most part 

Post of the Month.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Please!  Hawks desperately need a big, bully boy center.  Check out our current roster.  Atlanta has one!  So, he's a rookie.  So, he was a second round pick.  So, what is the problem?  I know. He's not there yet.  He's not a star NBA center.  Yet, he fills the exact description of what we need.

Never saw so many posters, some being not nice in their language, crying about the fact that we really, really need a player that we already have.

My bad.

This is the Post of the Month.

[Cwell]

5 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Except for his finishing around the rim.  I think he needs to give those drives up until he gets stronger.

No, he needs to keep driving until he figures out what works for him. It’s not just about strength. it’s picking your spots better and knowing when to drive, what finishes to use etc. Trae was getting swatted left and right driving to the rim the beginning of last year, and he eventually figured it out. I will never understand why y’all value off court stuff over game experience so much smh

Edited October 11, 2019 by Cwell

[Diesel]

13 hours ago, JTB said:

Let me add that Bruno learning from a player like Adams would be great too.

 

let me also add that John Collins is not a 5! He is a 4! ....positionless basketball my ass....there’s nothing wrong with JC playing the 4 full time. He will not be outsized by weight or length at the 4 full time and I think we’ll get our 2nd season JC back if not a better one .

when will this franchise stop with the small center shit. Do people realize even if collins was a good defender and always in the right spot at the right time and even contested well on most shots that he STILL will get phased out by bully ball?????....that’s al horford all over again in a nutshell. YOU CAN NOT DEFEND POWER if you don’t have any power to match the power.

 

 I’m ranting again....smh....the team did well last night I just don’t think the bully ball allowed is over completely so please ignore my post as i can’t help to bring it up until I see it completely stopped for the most part 

I agree with your contention that JC is a 4.

I want to point out one thing about Bruno though.

Bruno is still a project.   We say that we know that but the truth is that project bigs are really iffy. 

I mean... our own history:

Bebe?  Payne?  Solomon Jones?  Edy Tavares?

I think we all had comparable excitement about the prospect of these guys.  Unfortunately, none of these guys panned out.,,, Because they were projects.  They were not sure things.

Now, there's a return to skilled Bigs taking place right under our noses and we are so stuck in the idea that you can win without one.. that we can't even notice.... that you can't win anything of importance without one.  

WC Final 4.

Portland  = Kanter

Denver = Jokic

Houston = Capela 

Golden State = Cousins

 

 

[TheFuzz]

The hard truth is that making the playoffs this year isn't THAT big a deal. I think it could happen, but we are very young, so dealing a quality asset for an ok center is not in the cards right now.

I do agree that getting a quality big who can play alongside Collins is a priority going forward, however. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

59 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I agree with your contention that JC is a 4.

I want to point out one thing about Bruno though.

Bruno is still a project.   We say that we know that but the truth is that project bigs are really iffy. 

I mean... our own history:

Bebe?  Payne?  Solomon Jones?  Edy Tavares?

I think we all had comparable excitement about the prospect of these guys.  Unfortunately, none of these guys panned out.,,, Because they were projects.  They were not sure things.

Now, there's a return to skilled Bigs taking place right under our noses and we are so stuck in the idea that you can win without one.. that we can't even notice.... that you can't win anything of importance without one.  

WC Final 4.

Portland  = Kanter

Denver = Jokic

Houston = Capela 

Golden State = Cousins

 

 

Bruno = Clint Capela with a jumper, passing, and ball handling ability.

The question will be . . can the Hawks coaching staff utilize Bruno the way he's supposed to be used?  While I believe that he will develop a nice corner 3, I don't want him camped out there.  I want him around the rim and in the paint, and getting the ball in spots where he can contribute offensively.

Defensively, he's already shown to be a good man defender, but can he develop into a great help defender as well?  Sometimes, he looks a bit lost and a little lazy in that department.  

As Gray Mule said, we already have our big.  And it's not a project type big like Bebe or Edy. 

Bruno actually has skill, and is not just a big body.  

[NBASupes]

46 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Bruno = Clint Capela with a jumper, passing, and ball handling ability.

The question will be . . can the Hawks coaching staff utilize Bruno the way he's supposed to be used?  While I believe that he will develop a nice corner 3, I don't want him camped out there.  I want him around the rim and in the paint, and getting the ball in spots where he can contribute offensively.

Defensively, he's already shown to be a good man defender, but can he develop into a great help defender as well?  Sometimes, he looks a bit lost and a little lazy in that department.  

As Gray Mule said, we already have our big.  And it's not a project type big like Bebe or Edy. 

Bruno actually has skill, and is not just a big body.  

I hope he can develop into something like Capela. I think he could be close. He set some good screens v. ORL. The issue with Bruno is that he doesn't have movement skills or the awareness needed but his feet are tremendous, and as you mention. shooting touch, passing skills and ball handling when in space. I think it will take some time. Like with Kevin, he won't be playing the role he played at Maryland for the Hawks. 

 

At Maryland, he was mainly used for post-ups while here, he will be mainly playing in space like Clint. 

 

It's tough to say, those two looked good at times in the pre-season as well. The regular season is where those two were useless to a degree, especially Bebe. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by NBASupes

[Cwell]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

It's tough to say, those two looked good at times in the pre-season as well. The regular season is where those two were useless to a degree, especially Bebe. 

How can you really say that when Nogueira never played with us outside of Summer League? He never signed a contract with the Hawks, we traded his rights to Toronto with Lou before he ever put on a Hawks jersey

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, Cwell said:

How can you really say that when Nogueira never played with us outside of Summer League? He never signed a contract with the Hawks, we traded his rights to Toronto with Lou before he ever put on a Hawks jersey

I was talking in general. Not just with the Hawks 

[bleachkit]

The only one on the trade market is Steven Adams. Presti wants too much, but his price might come down. I think he would be a great addition.

[Diesel]

9 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Bruno = Clint Capela with a jumper, passing, and ball handling ability.

The question will be . . can the Hawks coaching staff utilize Bruno the way he's supposed to be used?  While I believe that he will develop a nice corner 3, I don't want him camped out there.  I want him around the rim and in the paint, and getting the ball in spots where he can contribute offensively.

Defensively, he's already shown to be a good man defender, but can he develop into a great help defender as well?  Sometimes, he looks a bit lost and a little lazy in that department.  

As Gray Mule said, we already have our big.  And it's not a project type big like Bebe or Edy. 

Bruno actually has skill, and is not just a big body.  

i've seen these kinda comparisons before,.   im not downing bruno or putting pressure on him..  Just stating that we get all googly eyed for anybody we draft and have a picture day with...  right now... he's still a project... not a projection of an allstar in this league.

[JTB]

44 minutes ago, Diesel said:

i've seen these kinda comparisons before,.   im not downing bruno or putting pressure on him..  Just stating that we get all googly eyed for anybody we draft and have a picture day with...  right now... he's still a project... not a projection of an allstar in this league.

Nothing is wrong with that (Him being a project). I believe Bruno will show how quickly he can learn and I predicted over the summer he will be a starter at some point this season around the same time frame Huerter got his opportunity if we don’t make a trade of any sort.

however what sucks is how long the waiting process will be until coach LP says “hey we need to switch it up, we’re getting outmuscled on a regular “...that could take 2 months into the season or so ! Not just because LP don’t see it happening but more so because he may feel the need to NOT have a knee jerk reaction once it (bully ball) happens....or if it happens (which I believe it’s not truly fixed despite the decent performance vs ORL the other night )

my only real concern for wanting another center right now 

.....also let me clarify my own personal issue while I’m at it about our center position and just the big man positions period...my concern right now is strictly regarding physicality THATS IT. I’ve been preaching it all week I’m just concerned about the bully ball stuff cause that leads to easy points all  too often and it’s not a defensive fix. You can’t fix bully ball with defense that’s a fact but you can address it matching power with power.

Now Long term my concern is of course defense for the whole unit but right now I just simply want to see the bully ball stuff to stop!
 

why the teams sucks at defense?

its no new news this team defense sucks but why does the team defense suck ? That’s where i am! And let’s face it there’s a good number of reasons why but we have to address it one by one (my opinion anyways) and number 1 on my list? You guessed it! We are simply just too weak when collins is at the 5. Then the centers we have (all except the rookie Bruno) don’t show any power or physicality whatsoever and get bullied just as easy as JC. And other teams know this so attacking the rim vs the hawks is a must! ....they don’t need to perform post moves, euro steps, or any of that, the game plan for the opponent is simple  just got to run to the paint, back us down in the paint and lay it in! Smh 

 

so here’s where we are with what we have...

we have only one physical big man on the team in my opinion and he’s a rookie and he’s not yet ready to play any major minutes. So that’s why I’d love a trade to get Adams as he at the very least resolves our physicality issues at the rim but he happens to be a good defensive big man too who’s close enough in age with our young guys. Also They don’t call him the strongest guy in the nba for no reason.

 

JTB CONCLUSION FOR THIS TOPIC

once I see the bully ball is addressed on normal basis and we aren’t getting beat down like the step child then I will be happy to address other defensive problems this unit has but right now until our team shows that physicality won’t be the reason they can’t get stops I can’t even look at the other defensive issues.

[terrell]

15 hours ago, Diesel said:

I agree with your contention that JC is a 4.

I want to point out one thing about Bruno though.

Bruno is still a project.   We say that we know that but the truth is that project bigs are really iffy. 

I mean... our own history:

Bebe?  Payne?  Solomon Jones?  Edy Tavares?

I think we all had comparable excitement about the prospect of these guys.  Unfortunately, none of these guys panned out.,,, Because they were projects.  They were not sure things.

Now, there's a return to skilled Bigs taking place right under our noses and we are so stuck in the idea that you can win without one.. that we can't even notice.... that you can't win anything of importance without one.  

WC Final 4.

Portland  = Kanter

Denver = Jokic

Houston = Capela 

Golden State = Cousins

 

 

Bruno has already showed more promise than those scrubs. lol