News and Notes: Updated between Games

[terrell]

Pascal Siakam  Isnt a #1 option..Players get overrated way too early.....Totally different guy without Kawhi out there...

[kg01]

Nice D on the game-losing play there, Trashcal.

Eta. That kg jinx in full effect.  Smdh.

Hey, at least I had the guts not to just erase this post.

Edited September 4, 2020 by kg01

[RedDawg#8]

So happy they hit that shot. Hopefully this propels the Raptors to rally this series. 
 

I HATE BOSTON

[JayBirdHawk]

21 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Nice D on the game-losing play there, Trashcal.

Eta. That kg jinx in full effect.  Smdh.

Hey, at least I had the guts not to just erase this post.

Ha.

The pass by Lowry though....wow!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 8/25/2020 at 11:03 AM, RedDawg#8 said:

The biggest and best difference between our rebuild and theirs so far, is that the moment we knew what we had in Trae we decided to only add the best talent that also compliments him. Its been length and defense since last offseason. So, at the very least we know that the players will fit with one another. We have a core group that is its own self contained lineup and can grow together.

People calling for TS have to realize that if we change GM's, we run the same risk of a new voice blowing up the work that was done before seeing it all the way through. TS deserves to see how far this core can climb together before we consider a regime change

 

No one outside of Atlanta will have this opinion, seeing that we had the 5th worst record in the league last season.  None of our rookies made a single rookie team, nor received all-rookie votes.  Only a few people even consider us to have a decent core of players, because they doubt the star power of Trae and John.

Essentially, this is the same situation that the Highlight Factory Hawks were in.

 

2005 - 06:  JJ is added with the kids, after bottoming out the season before

2006 - 07:  JJ and the kids try to develop chemistry, but show little improvement from the previous season . . . this is where we are right now

2007 - 08:  JJ and the kids show promise, but aren't quite there yet. Coach and GM are forced to make the decision to push for the playoffs, despite being a sub .500 team

 

Regardless of our record next season, the goal is to get to the playoffs.  If we don't get there, this group of players and/or coaches may not make it to the 2021 - 2022 season together.

This is not a 5-year plan.  This is a 3-year development.  If this team hasn't gotten to the point where it can make the playoffs, especially in an Eastern Conference where Orlando was one of the weakest 8th seeds in decades, that's a HUGE indictment on the direction of this franchise.

No one is going to wait for the Hawks to get good. Teams will make moves, change coaches, change GMs, and continue to push for playoff appearances and championships.

 

The top 7 in the East:   MIL - BOS  - TOR - MIA - IND - BRK ( once Kyrie and KD come back ) - PHI  . . aren't going anywhere.   It's that 8th team in the East that is going to fluctuate.

Are the Hawks really in better position to be that 8th playoff team than Chicago?  Orlando?  Washington? ( once John Wall comes back )

 

The Hawks missing the playoffs next season would be a DISASTER. 

- #1:   it may affect John Collins status ( if he doesn't sign an extension ).   If we choose not to re-sign, that's a major blow to the offense.  If we do re-sign ( and we miss the playoffs ), we have a high priced 2nd option player that may not be what we need to become a playoff level team

- #2:   A coaching change will be imminent

- #3:  The GM would ( or should ) be on a major hot seat.

 

Development time is not on our side folks. A high quality piece may have to be added to this team to play alongside Trae, to give the kids more time to develop.  But if it means sacrificing the kids to get that high quality piece, so be it.

Honestly, we need Deandre Hunder and Cam Reddish to become much more consistent basketball players on both ends of the floor, if we're going to stay young and still make the playoffs.  It's unfair to ask Trae to put up 29 ppg - 9 asst . . and dramatically improve all of his shooting percentages.  He could possibly do it, but damn, that's a hell of a lot to ask of a 3rd year player. 

We would be much better off if he were around 24 ppg and 12 - 13 assists.

 

 

 

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 8/25/2020 at 8:58 AM, kg01 said:

Gotta love how all these 6er fans hated the Iguodala-led teams because "all" they ever did was get to the 2nd round.  And how that was NBA "purgatory".  So they go through a multi-year tear down and when they come out of it all they can do is not get to the 2nd round. 

It's like tearing down a 4 bedroom house to build a shoddy duplex and share it with your cousin Rick and his girlfriend and her 6 cats.

Agreed.

But it sounds exactly like Hawks fans and the JJ led teams.  We honestly got a little lucky, because it didn't take a complete tear down of the team in order to at least make ( 1 ) apperarance in the ECF.

Hawks in JJ's 7 years:

• no playoffs
• no playoffs
• 1st round
• 2nd round
• 2nd round
• 2nd round
• 1st round

Hawks since the JJ trade:

• 1st round
• 1st round
• EC Finals
• EC Semis
• 1st round
• no playoffs
• no playoffs
• no playoffs

 

So essentially, we flashed for one season, couldn't sustain it, and literally decided to tear everything down after only 2 seasons of making the EC Finals.

 

Our story is still developing, but the next year is critical to the direction of this franchise.

The Sixers bought a little time, because they could always say that injuries were hampering their development.  But after their young stars got healthy and turned into superstars, they still haven't gotten over the hump.  They can still blame injuries though ( even if they still would lose with Simmons' non-jumpshooting self ).

[TheNorthCydeRises]

20 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

No one outside of Atlanta will have this opinion, seeing that we had the 5th worst record in the league last season.  None of our rookies made a single rookie team, nor received all-rookie votes.  Only a few people even consider us to have a decent core of players, because they doubt the star power of Trae and John.

Essentially, this is the same situation that the Highlight Factory Hawks were in.

 

2005 - 06:  JJ is added with the kids, after bottoming out the season before

2006 - 07:  JJ and the kids try to develop chemistry, but show little improvement from the previous season . . . this is where we are right now

2007 - 08:  JJ and the kids show promise, but aren't quite there yet. Coach and GM are forced to make the decision to push for the playoffs, despite being a sub .500 team

 

 

Of course, the major addition in the 2007 - 08 season, was adding Mike Bibby to stabilize the team, seeing that the point guard position was a major weakness.

So for this season, is our "Mike Bibby" . . . Clint Capela?   Does he shore up the defensive deficiencies of this team so much, that it causes a dramatic turnaround for this team?

Let's hope so.

[Vol4ever]

Hawks mgt has had 3 years for a rebuild and should be moving forward with playoffs next year.  This year kinda threw a wrench into things.  I'm disappointed with free agency out there this year with no one that can really make a impact.  Gotta make a trade somehow to get some help.  

[RedDawg#8]

5 hours ago, Vol4ever said:

Hawks mgt has had 3 years for a rebuild and should be moving forward with playoffs next year.  This year kinda threw a wrench into things.  I'm disappointed with free agency out there this year with no one that can really make a impact.  Gotta make a trade somehow to get some help.  

Management yes, TS has had 3 years.

Coach has barely had 2 seasons with one cut short

5 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

No one outside of Atlanta will have this opinion, seeing that we had the 5th worst record in the league last season.  None of our rookies made a single rookie team, nor received all-rookie votes.  Only a few people even consider us to have a decent core of players, because they doubt the star power of Trae and John.

They don't have to see it. Why would they? Most people outside of Atlanta think we have the same terrible ownership that led us to mediocrity. Most people don't know there is a culture shift with an emphasis on being more than an afterthought in the playoffs. They still think we are the franchise that will take peanuts and give them our assets. The outside wont see anything good until we win. But that doesn't change that the fact that John and Trae are insanely productive for both their experience level and compared to many vets. As long as Schlenk/Ressler/ Koonin have the vision and a plan that's all that matters. The NBA is notorious for love you one second hate you the next. GS was a laughing stock organization for years and now look at them. Same with Clippers, Toronto, and Brooklyn. We do not need to be pressed to impress. Winning takes care of everything

 

Quote

 

The Hawks missing the playoffs next season would be a DISASTER. 

- #1:   it may affect John Collins status ( if he doesn't sign an extension ).   If we choose not to re-sign, that's a major blow to the offense.  If we do re-sign ( and we miss the playoffs ), we have a high priced 2nd option player that may not be what we need to become a playoff level team

- #2:   A coaching change will be imminent

- #3:  The GM would ( or should ) be on a major hot seat.

 

Couldnt disagree more.

Playoff's are definitely the goal, but if we show vast improvement and just barely miss, it wont be a disaster. The only disaster would be another regression like we saw this season. 2 things have spared Coach; Covid and TS admitting he made a mistake with so much youth on the roster. TS has responsibility to assemble a competitive roster before he can hold LP accountable for playoffs. Just get better next year, tangibly better. As long as we get better, then the train is on course. Using your example, the 07-08 Hawks who made the playoffs with a losing record is the kind of team/expectations this roster has until further notice. 

Also, we are in good shape with JC. We have the leverage, either we get better with him and pay him accordingly, or we don't and still have options/flexibility. Either way, he is on the rise as a player, and he wants to be here. So another contract is imminent, and it will likely be under his true value because like you said, the outside is not as high on him, therefore we won't have to overpay to keep him. Unless he blows up and leads us to big things in which case, we still have the means to keep him long term and he would deserve it at that point. No need to worry there.

 

 

[Gray Mule]

I agree with the thoughts here about making the playoffs.

An old saying, that I must agree with here:  "Live and learn."  Did we, the Atlanta Hawks brain, learn anything from our last two seasons?

Yes!  Travis learned the importance of having a good bench.  Last season was terrible.  One of the big reasons, in my opinion, was our bench.  They all, collectively, contributed very little to the overall outcome for our season.  I know.  Hawks took on unwanted, high priced veterans for future assets.  

Another harsh lesson.  25 game suspended starter and very important Hawk immediately derailed the entire season.  By the time he had served his sentence, all hopes for a good season was at an end.

Experience is a great teacher, whether you are speaking about the coach or his players.  Lloyd Pierce has another season experience as a head coach.  All our young Hawks now have another year's NBA life and must be better.  They now know what to expect.  How things work.

From being what was probably our weakest position to being one of strength, adding Dedmon and Capela to this season's roster has to be a major upgrade.

Finally, health must be a major concern.  Chelsey Lane is on board to oversee this portion of our Hawks.  Capela and Skal, injured and unable to contribute last season, wanting to show us Hawk fans what we have now, is exciting to me.  Now, if we can keep everyone healthy, Hawks make the playoffs....

[JayBirdHawk]

The big difference with those JJ lead teams - he wasn't a Batman, he was a Robin. That Alpha mentality just wasn't there to be the Alpha leader. Compound that with a coach and GM that thought he should be our PG early on.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

Chris Kirchner's take:

Quote

If the Hawks miss the playoffs again next season, do you think coach Lloyd Pierce will be fired? — Aasim N. 

This is the first year in the Travis Schlenk era when there will be expectations on this team to win, and that wasn’t solidified when Lloyd Pierce said this is a playoff team next year. When Jami Gertz said a few days before the draft lottery that her prayer was that this year was the final year the Hawks were going to pick this high, it was sealed then. If Gertz is saying that, you better believe her husband, Tony Ressler, is thinking the same thing.

Pierce and the players have said they expect to be in the playoffs next season, but Schlenk didn’t want to go as far with his words.

“I wouldn’t necessarily say, put the pressure on them or anyone that it’s playoffs or bust,” Schlenk said after the lottery results were revealed. “But we do want to start to see our group improving on the floor, for sure.”

That quote saves Schlenk if the Hawks don’t make the playoffs because he can say, “I didn’t say we were making the playoffs,” whereas I don’t know how Pierce can back off his comments about being a playoff team next season.

“Next year, the progression is playoffs. That’s just a natural step. I’m not afraid to say it,” Pierce said in March. “Holding each other accountable, me holding them accountable and them holding me accountable is very important for a team to be successful.”

Pierce then doubled down on those comments a few months later, and Schlenk remained cautious so as not to say the wrong thing. This is a classic example of a general manager not wanting to be held to the fire in case something goes wrong.

In professional sports, it’s normally the coach who gets fired before the general manager. The wild card in this is Ressler. If Ressler feels like Schlenk didn’t put together a good enough team — if the Hawks don’t make the playoffs — he could step in and get rid of Schlenk. That’s not how it usually goes, so Pierce likely would be the candidate to get fired between the two of them.

The timing of Pierce’s comments also came out of nowhere. Until then, neither Pierce nor Schlenk publicly, and very clearly, stated the expectations for next season. It was always about not skipping steps until that day. The Hawks had just lost to Memphis by 39 points in one of the worst games the team played all season. The Grizzlies missed their first 11 shots in what was a sloppy game by both teams and still won by almost 40. Two days later, Pierce declared the Hawks would be a playoff team next season. It was just odd because of how random it was. And because he said it, I don’t know how fans, media and the front office don’t hold him to that now.

Atlanta has the resources to be a playoff team next season because of its cap space and having a good core group that just needs two or three more pieces for a rotation that should be good enough in the East, but if the Hawks, for some reason, can’t take that next step, changes will be made, and Pierce likely would be the first to go.

I hate talking about people losing their jobs, but that’s the nature of this business. Pierce has done excellent work in this community and around the nation; he’s truly a good-hearted man who means well. Look at what all of the teams are doing now with opening their arenas as polling places. Pierce was the first person I heard recommend that as an option.

It would be a shame if he was given just one year with a decent roster, but this business can be cruel.

Some other tidbits here:

https://theathletic.com/2042200/2020/09/04/hawks-mailbag-part-2-what-happens-if-atlanta-doesnt-reach-the-playoffs?source=user-shared-article

 

[Gray Mule]

Our only fear, in my opinion, is the health of our roster.  Staying healthy = playoffs.  We're there now!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

44 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The big difference with those JJ lead teams - he wasn't a Batman, he was a Robin. That Alpha mentality just wasn't there to be the Alpha leader. Compound that with a coach and GM that thought he should be our PG early on.

 

Give JJ more credit than that. 

At the very least, JJ was Aquaman.

[AHF]

The big failing with last year's roster wasn't too much youth - it was that all our vets were garbage.  Our 1-3 year players were the best performers and brightest spots.  

TS is on a mandate to improve our quality depth next season.  We need to be competing for that spot in the playoffs and making the case to stars like Embiid and Giannis and whoever else might come available that we have the bones in place to elevate a superstar and that they don't have to jump to their biggest rival to win big if they decide to make a change of venue.

[macdaddy]

12 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Are the Hawks really in better position to be that 8th playoff team than Chicago?  Orlando?  Washington? ( once John Wall comes back )

Hell yes.  Who doesn't think this?   Those teams and organizations suck.  What has John Wall ever done even when he had a good supporting cast which is all gone now?   You managed to name the teams that you can never count on.  Throw Detroit in for good measure. 

[kg01]

29 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Hell yes.  Who doesn't think this?   Those teams and organizations suck.  What has John Wall ever done even when he had a good supporting cast which is all gone now?   You managed to name the teams that you can never count on.  Throw Detroit in for good measure. 

Preach, macd.  Homer-ism aside, I'd take our next-season over any of those teams.  A case could be made for Orlando although I remain of the opinion that they need to blow that group up.  I mean, at this point, the fact that all they're doing is swimming upstream and barely making the 8-seed .... c'mon, what are you doing Magic?

Washington is the most unreliable team in the history of the league.  Am I right that they've never had a 50-win team?  At worst, it's been decades since they had one.  And this is all while big, bad John Wall has been in his prime.  Now all he is is older, slower, and coming off an injury that saps explosiveness.

And count me as not buying the erroneous rumors that he's developed a jumpshot all of a sudden.  Smells like "somebody fall for this so you trade for his terri-bad contract" smoke to me.

[macdaddy]

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

And count me as not buying the erroneous rumors that he's developed a jumpshot all of a sudden.  Smells like "somebody fall for this so you trade for his terri-bad contract" smoke to me.

This was my first thought too.   Hell Dwight and Smoove hit jumpers in practice.   If Wall is going to come back as a renewed superstar then why are they unloading Beal anyway?   

You're right about Orlando though.   Give Clifford some mid level vets and he can get a team to the 8th seed in the east.  That's his raison d'etre.   But i'm not scared of any of these teams.  Hawks just have to take care of their own business.  We have the talent.  We need a really good bench and to get on the damn court.  

[AHF]

I'll be happy for Wall if he has this impressive new jumper and guys like Jason Kidd did ultimately get there but yeah...count me in as a skeptic.

[JayBirdHawk]

For all you NBA2K-ers

Quote

NBA 2K has released their annual copy of this year’s game, despite the lack of clarity on when we will see a new NBA season in real life.

Here are the initial ratings for the Atlanta Hawks — keep in mind, the pending free agents are still on all rosters because the 2019-20 season has not officially ended:

• Trae Young (88 OVR)
• John Collins (85 OVR)
• Clint Capela (82 OVR)
• Jeff Teague (78 OVR) — free agent
• DeAndre Hunter (75 OVR)
• Kevin Huerter (75 OVR)
• Skal Labissiere (74 OVR) — free agent
• Damian Jones (74 OVR) — free agent
• Cam Reddish (73 OVR)
• Bruno Fernando (73 OVR)
• DeAndre’ Bembry (73 OVR) — free agent
• Dewayne Dedmon (72 OVR)
• Treveon Graham (71 OVR) — free agent
• Brandon Goodwin (71 OVR)
• Charlie Brown (70 OVR)

NBA 2K rated the Hawks as a “Tier 3” team heading into the offseason