Ask Supes

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Let me take a second to talk about the draft and value.  Most of the draft missed out on 15+ games of instruction, conference tourneys and the NCAA tourney. That is valuable development time. Most of the programs were not allowed to hold workouts during that time There is significantly less tape, less medical knowledge, less development for this round of what was already seen as a weaker draft class. There are teams who are very interested in players in this draft solely because they can stash them on their roster as a low fixed 4 year salary. There is significant interest in acquiring picks in the 20 range and not in the lottery. Its bonkers. Teams don't feel they know enough about the lottery players except for the few who played last year as well. There is very little Euro buzz save for a few players. The buzz, the only buzz is for Lamelo and if you could take Lamelo 2020 and put him in the draft last year he would not go top 5. If you put him in 2 years ago he'd struggle to make the top 10. Cam Reddish went 10 last year...Lamelo does not have the ceiling of Cam. Let that sink in. This years draft is a crap shoot like no other year. Nobody knows what anyone would do as far as picks go. Its that jacked up right now.

Just this morning I read a short blurb that teams are looking for draft n stashes and/or guys for the GLeague.

[thecampster]

To be clear, I do not know the deal Supes is referring to. I have a guess but I don't know. I just verified with him it wasn't 2x 2 week old deals I'd heard we were pitched but said...."lemme think about that...I'll get back with you". They were good enough to consider but hamstring type deals where doing the deal pushes you in a direction you'd have to build around. One was a bad fit. One was short term. He verified that it was neither...both of those were effectively rejected. So I'm in the dark too on this.

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Just this morning I read a short blurb that teams are looking for draft n stashes and/or guys for the GLeague.

more than 1/2 the second round will be that. The league feels this draft class is horribly developed due to Covid. Also that the league got in way more time thanks to the bubble and the long lay off makes college players that much farther behind. They don't know how their conditioning is, nothing. Total crap shoot.

[thecampster]

So the league is talking about starting back up in mid January.  So think about my previous statement. College players haven't played in almost 7 months...no summer league. No predraft workouts. They'll be drafted Nov 18th and possibly be in training camp expected to act like a pro 45 days later. Expected to make mature decisions about their health, social distancing, etc....think really hard about this because those are part of the discussions now come draft night.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

more than 1/2 the second round will be that. The league feels this draft class is horribly developed due to Covid. Also that the league got in way more time thanks to the bubble and the long lay off makes college players that much farther behind. They don't know how their conditioning is, nothing. Total crap shoot.

There was also talk about 1st round picks possibly available for sale also.  A team like Detroit, Charlotte, NYK that are just starting their rebuilding effort should buy a 1st if available - they can develop these players next season.  Particularly if the GL season is in question.

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, thecampster said:

So the league is talking about starting back up in mid January.  So think about my previous statement. College players haven't played in almost 7 months...no summer league. No predraft workouts. They'll be drafted Nov 18th and possibly be in training camp expected to act like a pro 45 days later. Expected to make mature decisions about their health, social distancing, etc....think really hard about this because those are part of the discussions now come draft night.

I mentioned this awhile back, whoever we draft will be behind since no SL (this was anticipating the Oct 16th draft with start in Dec).  Pierce  also mentioned whoever we draft (if we keep the pick) is gonna have to keep up or get left behind.

Makes some sense to move it for an established player to help in the now.  @kg01 was on board with trading the pick since day 1.

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

There was also talk about 1st round picks possibly available for sale also.  A team like Detroit, Charlotte, NYK that are just starting their rebuilding effort should buy a 1st if available - they can develop these players next season.  Particularly if the GL season is in question.

Trading back and firesale are two completely different things. There is no fire sales for 1st rounders this year. 

[NBASupes]

36 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I want to revisit this:

So we get #1 and we flip it for a rental player?  Seems counterproductive - unless we really want James Johnson.  Seems we can flip 6 for that rental and keep the 2022 OKC 1st and our capspace.

It is to me but I don't know who's available. High end rentals aren't openly on the market.

[NBASupes]

24 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Let me take a second to talk about the draft and value.  Most of the draft missed out on 15+ games of instruction, conference tourneys and the NCAA tourney. That is valuable development time. Most of the programs were not allowed to hold workouts during that time There is significantly less tape, less medical knowledge, less development for this round of what was already seen as a weaker draft class. There are teams who are very interested in players in this draft solely because they can stash them on their roster as a low fixed 4 year salary. There is significant interest in acquiring picks in the 20 range and not in the lottery. Its bonkers. Teams don't feel they know enough about the lottery players except for the few who played last year as well. There is very little Euro buzz save for a few players. The buzz, the only buzz is for Lamelo and if you could take Lamelo 2020 and put him in the draft last year he would not go top 5. If you put him in 2 years ago he'd struggle to make the top 10. Cam Reddish went 10 last year...Lamelo does not have the ceiling of Cam. Let that sink in. This years draft is a crap shoot like no other year. Nobody knows what anyone would do as far as picks go. Its that jacked up right now.

Which is why what's the trade value of a pick is so difficult this year compared to years past.

[kg01]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I mentioned this awhile back, whoever we draft will be behind since no SL (this was anticipating the Oct 16th draft with start in Dec).  Pierce  also mentioned whoever we draft (if we keep the pick) is gonna have to keep up or get left behind.

Makes some sense to move it for an established player to help in the now.  @kg01 was on board with trading the pick since day 1.

I've been livin' in 2021, y'all are finally catching up. 

[Peoriabird]

22 minutes ago, thecampster said:

So the league is talking about starting back up in mid January.  So think about my previous statement. College players haven't played in almost 7 months...no summer league. No predraft workouts. They'll be drafted Nov 18th and possibly be in training camp expected to act like a pro 45 days later. Expected to make mature decisions about their health, social distancing, etc....think really hard about this because those are part of the discussions now come draft night.

Why does this matter to a team like the Hawks?  We can just sign vet players to fill in rotational players and wait on the development of a draft pick.  We are not a title contender yet and probably won't be for a couple of seasons so who cares how raw the prospects are this year?

[kg01]

10 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Why does this matter to a team like the Hawks?  We can just sign vet players to fill in rotational players and wait on the development of a draft pick.  We are not a title contender yet and probably won't be for a couple of seasons so who cares how raw the prospects are this year?

This is no longer true.  Well, to elaborate, if there were guys in this draft who were expected to pan out at a high level it would be true.

Take the '21 crop and drop them in this draft and this would absolutely be true.  But, sadly, '20 ain't '21.

And, I should know, since I've been livin' in '21.  Ask me anything about the future. 

[thecampster]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

This is no longer true.  Well, to elaborate, if there were guys in this draft who were expected to pan out at a high level it would be true.

Take the '21 crop and drop them in this draft and this would absolutely be true.  But, sadly, '20 ain't '21.

And, I should know, since I've been livin' in '21.  Ask me anything about the future. 

When will new math be old?

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

When will new math be old?

Trick question.  New math is old ...

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

This is no longer true.  Well, to elaborate, if there were guys in this draft who were expected to pan out at a high level it would be true.

Take the '21 crop and drop them in this draft and this would absolutely be true.  But, sadly, '20 ain't '21.

And, I should know, since I've been livin' in '21.  Ask me anything about the future. 

So y'all know that this entire process isn't making any sense right?

1.  I've been told by multiple posters that Schlenk and Pierce were not trying to win last season and I was assuming for a better draft pick.

2. Now that we have a lottery pick, the approach has changed?  We no long want the draft pick but rather a rental?

Someone needs to explain this cluster to me because I thought that suffering through all of these loses would result in a light at the end of this dark tunnel but apparently not.  If the rumor are correct, Schlenk doesn't believe in his prized draft selections as much as some of y'all do and is ready to push the panic button just to slip into the playoffs as an 8th seed.  Are y'all really down with this?

[DS5]

@NBASupes would this trade be a 1 for 1 deal or does it involve picks and salary fillers?

If it's Simmons, I think he'd be a great fit despite the lack of shooting. Elite defender and can handle the ball to free up Trae. 

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So y'all know that this entire process isn't making any sense right?

1.  I've been told by multiple posters that Schlenk and Pierce were not trying to win last season and I was assuming for a better draft pick.

2. Now that we have a lottery pick, the approach has changed?  We no long want the draft pick but rather a rental?

Someone needs to explain this cluster to me because I thought that suffering through all of these loses would result in a light at the end of this dark tunnel but apparently not.  If the rumor are correct, Schlenk doesn't believe in his prized draft selections as much as some of y'all do and is ready to push the panic button just to slip into the playoffs as an 8th seed.  Are y'all really down with this?

Maybe just remember that no one on here is actually Schlenk or Pierce.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

Maybe just remember that no one on here is actually Schlenk or Pierce.

But many have supported their decisions/actions so I think those that do understand their decision more than the ones who do support their decision.  I was just looking for their explanations for supporting such decisions.

[DS5]

My prediction is that it has to be around Simmons and Collins but it's contingent on Philly getting Chris Paul. But that doesn't really fit with what supes said with regards to that team being a major FAcy player in '21. 

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So y'all know that this entire process isn't making any sense right?

1.  I've been told by multiple posters that Schlenk and Pierce were not trying to win last season and I was assuming for a better draft pick.

2. Now that we have a lottery pick, the approach has changed?  We no long want the draft pick but rather a rental?

Someone needs to explain this cluster to me because I thought that suffering through all of these loses would result in a light at the end of this dark tunnel but apparently not.  If the rumor are correct, Schlenk doesn't believe in his prized draft selections as much as some of y'all do and is ready to push the panic button just to slip into the playoffs as an 8th seed.  Are y'all really down with this?

Ok, and I'm not saying this to try to argue but, I think you're just missing the nuance.  We clearly tried to be competitive this past year - as in, they didn't want to be a doormat - but they also clearly weren't expecting to be a "contender".

You can read that as "not trying to win" but it wasn't necessarily that - imho.  I do think, once it was clear all Schlenk's additions were turds, they realized they weren't going to get to where they wanted to be as a team.

I think the goal of this offseason is to do a better job of what they tried to do last offseason.  Which, if successful, makes us significantly better.  I don't think the draft figures into that, unless they trade the pick for actual help.

Just my thoughts.  Again, not tryna fight with you.  I'm on a no-beef diet in 2021