Ask Supes

[ShooterSays]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

OKC 1st works to move up to #4, or #5, not 1-3. You need a heavy hitter aka Kev.

Appreciate the info as always @NBASupes! If that's the case, the price is too high for me. Although as a UGA homer, I'd love to see Ant in a Hawks jersey. Just not at the price of Hu3rter or Hunter. If somehow the draft fell Ball, Deni, Wiseman - I'm pulling the trigger on the OKC first to move up to #4.

Looking forward to the FA update later!

[mrhonline]

Here I am hoping the Hawks trade down. 

[kg01]

9 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

It's less about him going to UGA. You can tell that by the fact there is National Recognition of him being consistently mentioned as the top 1 or 2 best players in this class.

Its about the fact that he was a prep school standout and rated the best player in the country. Warranted or not, this kid has had cameras around him for quite a while now. He didn't come out of nowhere at UGA.

I think most people here want him, Ball, or Toppin, for many of the same reasons. There is more hype and star buzz surrounding them. Talent, flaws, measurables, etc.... are debatable among each, but the potential for rockstar status is what sets them apart and makes them appealing enough to move up.

Hey, I'm rooting for him on a personal level.  But I just don't see a winning player there.  And, even if he gets to that point, it'll be after he bounces around for a while.  That's my prediction, hope I'm wrong.

My issue in citing the UGA thing is that I think more of us would be honest about their assessment of him if he wasn't the "local" kid.  There are jumbo jet-sized holes in all levels of his game that folks here are ignoring and it's shocking to me.

And most draft projections are woefully wrong, so touting what the eggsperts are saying/seeing doesn't move the needle for me.

Again, hope I'm wrong for the kid's sake.

I apologize if it sounds like I'm yelling at you, redD.  I'm not yelling at you ...... I'm yellin' at all-a y'all!!!   Come at me, bro's!!

[kg01]

If we trade a core piece to move up for anyone in this draft .... while everybody in the NBA world is trying to move down .....

[AHF]

45 minutes ago, kg01 said:

My issue in citing the UGA thing is that I think more of us would be honest about their assessment of him if he wasn't the "local" kid.  There are jumbo jet-sized holes in all levels of his game that folks here are ignoring and it's shocking to me.

 

He is one of 2 players that Supes says is a lock for the top 3 slots in this draft.  That isn't because of Squawk hometown bias.  That is because the scouts and other teams in the league believe he has that kind of upside.  I'm not pushing for us to trade up for him, just saying that your opinion on him is way more negative than the feedback that Supes is getting from other teams.  I'm sure there are some on this site who like the hometown angle but their view of him seems closer to the consensus than yours does.  Of course, the consensus loved Marvin Williams so that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, ShooterSays said:

Appreciate the info as always @NBASupes! If that's the case, the price is too high for me. Although as a UGA homer, I'd love to see Ant in a Hawks jersey. Just not at the price of Hu3rter or Hunter. If somehow the draft fell Ball, Deni, Wiseman - I'm pulling the trigger on the OKC first to move up to #4.

Looking forward to the FA update later!

GS has to drop salary as well. It wouldn't be 2 for 6 and Huerter.

They are looking for someone to take their salary as well. It is more complicated than the guy on Reddit is stating.  GS leaking they are interested in Oubre today is meant to apply pressure to the teams they are negotiating with...us included.

 

 

[thecampster]

16 minutes ago, AHF said:

He is one of 2 players that Supes says is a lock for the top 3 slots in this draft.  That isn't because of Squawk hometown bias.  That is because the scouts and other teams in the league believe he has that kind of upside.  I'm not pushing for us to trade up for him, just saying that your opinion on him is way more negative than the feedback that Supes is getting from other teams.  I'm sure there are some on this site who like the hometown angle but their view of him seems closer to the consensus than yours does.  Of course, the consensus loved Marvin Williams so that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

He is not a lock. Deni is getting lots of interest and interest in Wiseman post interviews has increased. The whole top 6 is a crap shoot right now. I wouldn't believe one mock draft at this point and at least 2 teams in the top 10 are trading out of their spots....maybe as many as 5. There is no saying who is going 1-4.  

Also, Boston got active the last 2 days. They are trying to package 2 or all 3 of their 1st round picks. Boston is only going to bring 1 rookie to camp in 8 weeks.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by thecampster

[kg01]

17 minutes ago, AHF said:

He is one of 2 players that Supes says is a lock for the top 3 slots in this draft.  That isn't because of Squawk hometown bias.  That is because the scouts and other teams in the league believe he has that kind of upside.  I'm not pushing for us to trade up for him, just saying that your opinion on him is way more negative than the feedback that Supes is getting from other teams.  I'm sure there are some on this site who like the hometown angle but their view of him seems closer to the consensus than yours does.  Of course, the consensus loved Marvin Williams so that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Heh, you negated all this with your last statement.  The eggsperts touted the Kandi Man as the best in his draft too.  As I said, most nba people are wrong on almost every draft so the consensus doesn't shake my opinion.

Keep em comin', Boyz.

On a serious note, I do hope I'm wrong for the kid's sake.  Kg love the kids, ah.

[gurpilo]

I have seen enough on Cam to think he could be our bet at SG long term, I think he fits well with Trae. The potential is great.

I don't see bigger potential in Edwards at SG, I don't see a better fit with Trae, in fact I see a worst fit and I don't see enough gap with Haliburton or Okongwu to justify losing Huerter.

I think is a bad move medium and long term for the Hawks.

[thecampster]

I was fed a bit of info on the Boston thing and I just verified I'm okay to share it. Boston has been very quiet in the background gauging interest in their picks. They could even trade 2 of their picks for an unprotected (or top 3 protected) future pick. Boston would love to be rid of Hayward at this point and would give away a pick to drop Hayward and bring back a lower priced / better fit replacement.

[thecampster]

6 days ago - Zach Lowe dropped this. This was one of those "gauging public reaction" leaks by Boston. This is what got me asking the right questions.

 

"Gordon Hayward won't be a Celtic in 2020-21?

NBA Central: “The buzz that I’m hearing is like the smoke, the smoke indicating that something is happening. I’m not sure what’s up, but I don’t think it’s a lock that Gordon Hayward is on the Celtics next year.” – Zach Lowe pic.twitter.com/b6IZRzcaNJ

 

7 days ago – via Twitter TheNBACentral

 Top Rumors, Free Agency, Trade, Gordon Hayward, Boston Celtics"

[ShooterSays]

17 minutes ago, thecampster said:

GS has to drop salary as well. It wouldn't be 2 for 6 and Huerter.

They are looking for someone to take their salary as well. It is more complicated than the guy on Reddit is stating.  GS leaking they are interested in Oubre today is meant to apply pressure to the teams they are negotiating with...us included.

 

 

i.e. Wiggins? 

IF they're insisting on moving Wiggins as part of any deal I can definitely see how that complicates things. Good luck to them moving that contract.

[JayBirdHawk]

18 minutes ago, thecampster said:

GS has to drop salary as well. It wouldn't be 2 for 6 and Huerter.

They are looking for someone to take their salary as well. It is more complicated than the guy on Reddit is stating.  GS leaking they are interested in Oubre today is meant to apply pressure to the teams they are negotiating with...us included.

 

 

Besides Wiggins, GSW has only lower salaried guys like Looney ($4.8), Poole($2) Paschall ($1.5). Any Wiggins trade would have to include the Minny 2021 2st, no?

[thecampster]

Back to Boston.

They've been offering one of their lower firsts for someone to take Hayward and have contacted no less than 6 teams. They are looking for a SG/SF, SF/PF that is a 3 and D type. I was told they'd move 14 or even more for the right lower priced player in return. 

Edited November 3, 2020 by thecampster

[thecampster]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Besides Wiggins, GSW has only lower salaried guys like Looney ($4.8), Poole($2) Paschall ($1.5). Any Wiggins trade would have to include the Minny 2021 2st, no?

The thing is you can't believe #2 for #6 and Kevin.

GS is functionally $16 million over the LT (we'll know more when final numbers are released). You can't trade "pick value" even though the salary differential for the picks helps even it out. GS has exemptions they could use but its tight....none line up.

The only way GS trades out of 2 and takes back a player is to drop salary. There is no smoke on 2 for 6+Kevin. There could be smoke behind 2 + Wiggins (considerations) for 6+Kevin but even that would be difficult to manage because they don't have the resources to manage that without getting aggressive with their assets.

I don't have specific information here, I just know what will and won't work. They can't trade it on 2019-20 numbers now and they would have to move some things around to work it out in 20-21. 

[bleachkit]

40 minutes ago, AHF said:

He is one of 2 players that Supes says is a lock for the top 3 slots in this draft.  That isn't because of Squawk hometown bias.  That is because the scouts and other teams in the league believe he has that kind of upside.  I'm not pushing for us to trade up for him, just saying that your opinion on him is way more negative than the feedback that Supes is getting from other teams.  I'm sure there are some on this site who like the hometown angle but their view of him seems closer to the consensus than yours does.  Of course, the consensus loved Marvin Williams so that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Not to beat that dead horse, but I never understood the Marvin hype. Terrible handle, not a creative scorer, not smooth or natural looking doing anything besides shooting, even then he needs a clean look. This isn't Monday Morning quarterbacking, I always felt that way going back to UNC. Antman on the other hand, has some big time skills. He is a risky pick for sure, efficiency and BBIQ problems could dog him his whole career.

[thecampster]

Let me take this GS thing further.  The difference between 2 and 6. There is a $2.9 million difference in the salaries between the 2 slots. Because GS will most likely be a tax payer again and as much as $20 million over the LT. An additional salary of $2.9 million carries a penalty of an addition $8.7-$12 million for GS....for a flipping rookie.

So the question you want to ask yourself if you're GS is: Is the player I'm getting at 2 worth $10 million more the first year than the player I could get at 6.  They aren't in a normal bargaining position here of holding the higher pick. It actually hurts them. 

So the difference is $2.9 million - but if they could (and they can't) swing 2 for 6 and Huerter the difference is a savings of $129,000 or an LT savings of $500,000.  Not a ton of incentive here except getting Huerter who is a bench player with Wiggins there. They only do a deal like this (or could) if they moved Wiggins for nothing.

 

[thecampster]

18 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Besides Wiggins, GSW has only lower salaried guys like Looney ($4.8), Poole($2) Paschall ($1.5). Any Wiggins trade would have to include the Minny 2021 2st, no?

A Wiggins trade saves them as much as $60 million in salary and taxes next year...ya...they'd have to give a whole bunch more.

[thecampster]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

A Wiggins trade saves them as much as $60 million in salary and taxes next year...ya...they'd have to give a whole bunch more.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/cap/

 

This list doesn't include their 2020 draft pick. They are very, very hosed.

CAP TYPE	CAP TOTAL
Active Roster Cap	$148,218,101
Dead Money	$666,667
Cap Holds	$30,720,113
Total Cap Allocations	$148,884,768
2020 NBA Salary Cap Max	$109,140,000
Cap Max Space	$-39,744,768
Practical Cap Space	$-36,597,266

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, thecampster said:

The thing is you can't believe #2 for #6 and Kevin.

GS is functionally $16 million over the LT (we'll know more when final numbers are released). You can't trade "pick value" even though the salary differential for the picks helps even it out. GS has exemptions they could use but its tight....none line up.

The only way GS trades out of 2 and takes back a player is to drop salary. There is no smoke on 2 for 6+Kevin. There could be smoke behind 2 + Wiggins (considerations) for 6+Kevin but even that would be difficult to manage because they don't have the resources to manage that without getting aggressive with their assets.

I don't have specific information here, I just know what will and won't work. They can't trade it on 2019-20 numbers now and they would have to move some things around to work it out in 20-21. 

GSW is a repeat LT offender so I see why they may want to reduce their LT bill. They also have a $17 million TPE they can use to trade for a player on a one year deal, but again their LT issues might limit what they do with it.