Ask Supes

[JTB]

4 hours ago, Vol4ever said:

I disagree with this.  We need a center that plays every game, physical, and can rebound.   

Yeah I’m not saying don’t get a starting caliber center like Adams.

 

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I only want one thing in a Center - A Real Starting Center. No more center by committee stuff.

Yeah I’m not saying don’t get a starting caliber center like a Drummond.

3 hours ago, bird_dirt said:

Yeah, but this committee could all start with Trae. 

Boom.

Not one, but four starting centers!

Exactly what I’m saying, well kind of ...they all bring a different need to the table for the young core which @Vol4ever and @JayBirdHawk are missing. 
even if we get Adams or Drummond at a good salary they will not fix all the problems because they still have flaws that will get exploited by top opponents.

 

In this era of the nba you need centers that’s the size of an Embiid or Gobert for length purposes, that can play in space defensively like horford, that’s strong like prime Dwight Howard so you won’t get bullied at the rim on defense or can finish strong right at the goal on offense , and can space the floor like 7 foot Dirk lol but perhaps not as efficient but good enough to keep defenses honest. In other words you need a lot from the center position ...way more than in the past.

We’ve been over this! And I say it time after time That center don’t exist or he exist in very few that can do a bit of all these things ... Myles Turner, Jaren Jackson Jr. are the only two I can really think of and they aren’t available.

im not saying get a center by committee in the way Schlenk did this past offseason cause what he put together is not a committee of big men but more so just pure laziness! The spurs are a good example of a good big man rotation during Duncan prime seasons as well as the warriors during the championship years.

we had a good big man rotation during the 60 win season of horford, antic, sap, Mike Scott.

But times are even much different now than then...We have to face reality and just realize a Starting caliber center isn’t going to fix everything! We need to play it smart! we need situational centers to go along with the starting center that can provide their specialty when called on and can perhaps be able to play starter minutes when need be.

Again isn’t to say we don’t need to go get Adams cause we do . But when Adams is getting killed in pick n rolls like last playoffs vs the blazers and getting benched cause Donovan is forced to try other bigs ....that is the point I’m making on why you have to have a committee. Warriors at one point had bogut, green, speights, iggy committee...point is they all brought something different to help the team win.

 

Adams is a starting caliber center just like horford is no doubt  but both have something they do better than the other to impact the game.
I can’t believe this can be disagreed with honestly....I remember bud use to put in Antic to make the inbound pass at the end of games over the bigs during the 60 win season.

Edited January 29, 2020 by JTB

[JayBirdHawk]

8 hours ago, JTB said:

Yeah I’m not saying don’t get a starting caliber center like Adams.

 

Yeah I’m not saying don’t get a starting caliber center like a Drummond.

Exactly what I’m saying, well kind of ...they all bring a different need to the table for the young core which @Vol4ever and @JayBirdHawk are missing. 
even if we get Adams or Drummond at a good salary they will not fix all the problems because they still have flaws that will get exploited by top opponents.

 

In this era of the nba you need centers that’s the size of an Embiid or Gobert for length purposes, that can play in space defensively like horford, that’s strong like prime Dwight Howard so you won’t get bullied at the rim on defense or can finish strong right at the goal on offense , and can space the floor like 7 foot Dirk lol but perhaps not as efficient but good enough to keep defenses honest. In other words you need a lot from the center position ...way more than in the past.

We’ve been over this! And I say it time after time That center don’t exist or he exist in very few that can do a bit of all these things ... Myles Turner, Jaren Jackson Jr. are the only two I can really think of and they aren’t available.

im not saying get a center by committee in the way Schlenk did this past offseason cause what he put together is not a committee of big men but more so just pure laziness! The spurs are a good example of a good big man rotation during Duncan prime seasons as well as the warriors during the championship years.

we had a good big man rotation during the 60 win season of horford, antic, sap, Mike Scott.

But times are even much different now than then...We have to face reality and just realize a Starting caliber center isn’t going to fix everything! We need to play it smart! we need situational centers to go along with the starting center that can provide their specialty when called on and can perhaps be able to play starter minutes when need be.

Again isn’t to say we don’t need to go get Adams cause we do . But when Adams is getting killed in pick n rolls like last playoffs vs the blazers and getting benched cause Donovan is forced to try other bigs ....that is the point I’m making on why you have to have a committee. Warriors at one point had bogut, green, speights, iggy committee...point is they all brought something different to help the team win.

 

Adams is a starting caliber center just like horford is no doubt  but both have something they do better than the other to impact the game.
I can’t believe this can be disagreed with honestly....I remember bud use to put in Antic to make the inbound pass at the end of games over the bigs during the 60 win season.

No one player will fix this teams problem....we have a myriad...but it should help alleviate problems in other areas. Bench guys stay bench guys and aren't forced into roles beyond their capabilities.

We have:

A starting PG with defensive flaws and a turnover problem.

A starting PF with defensive flaws.

We are supposed to have a starting SG and SF, but both are inconsistent, so yes, still flawed.

I want a STARTING CALIBER CENTER - flaws and all.

That's what I'm saying.

[AHF]

47 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

No one player will fix this teams problem....we have a myriad...but it should help alleviate problems in other areas. Bench guys stay bench guys and aren't forced into roles beyond their capabilities.

We have:

A starting PG with defensive flaws and a turnover problem.

A starting PF with defensive flaws.

We are supposed to have a starting SG and SF, but both are inconsistent, so yes, still flawed.

I want a STARTING CALIBER CENTER - flaws and all.

That's what I'm saying.

This is where I’m at too.  I’d rather have one “good” player to start even though they won’t do everything than 3 Alex Len level players who have different skills and provide a more complete set of options.  Give me 1 Adams over 3 Len (decent but not great size who can defend a little and supposedly shoot from deep) + strong, big Len + athletic Len.

[KB21]

Has there been anything else on the possibility of trading for Jakob Poeltl?  

[REHawksFan]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

No one player will fix this teams problem....we have a myriad...but it should help alleviate problems in other areas. Bench guys stay bench guys and aren't forced into roles beyond their capabilities.

We have:

A starting PG with defensive flaws and a turnover problem.

A starting PF with defensive flaws.

We are supposed to have a starting SG and SF, but both are inconsistent, so yes, still flawed.

I want a STARTING CALIBER CENTER - flaws and all.

That's what I'm saying.

Here's a little illustration that, I think, really hammers home the point....

These are two graphs showing the Offensive and Defensive effectiveness of each player (logging more than 560 minutes total) on the Raptors and Hawks. The red diagonal line is the (0,0) line distinguishing between net positive players (to the right of the line) and net negative players (to the left). For those playing along at home, hate to ruin the suspense, but the Hawks ain't the graph on the left. That would the Raptors with 8 of 10 players posting net positive ratings and 4 of those with positive Offense and Defense ratings. The Hawks are the team with 4 negative negative players and 10 net negative players out of 12. 

So yeah......as @JayBirdHawk said, there's MANY deficiencies on this roster. It needs a TOTAL upgrade. The good news is those green dots on the Hawks chart are young guys and the only players under contract next year, so there's hope that players will improve with age and the roster will improve with time. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by REHawksFan

[macdaddy]

5 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Here's a little illustration that, I think, really hammers home the point....

These are two graphs showing the Offensive and Defensive effectiveness of each player (logging more than 560 minutes total) on the Raptors and Hawks. The red diagonal line is the (0,0) line distinguishing between net positive players (to the right of the line) and net negative players (to the left). For those playing along at home, hate to ruin the suspense, but the Hawks ain't the graph on the left. That would the Raptors with 8 of 10 players posting net positive ratings and 4 of those with positive Offense and Defense ratings. The Hawks are the team with 4 negative negative players and 10 net negative players out of 12. 

So yeah......as @JayBirdHawk said, there's MANY deficiencies on this roster. It needs a TOTAL upgrade. The good news is those green dots on the Hawks chart are young guys and the only players under contract next year, so there's hope that players will improve with age and the roster will improve with time. 

[NBASupes]

Thanks @REHawksFan! 

We need good veterans. That's our most urgent need

We also need continued development. Hunter hasn't improved much this year by the data. Maybe his role is too big. Watching the games, I've seen some improvement but not much.

Cam, Trae, Jabari, and Bruno have tremendously improved based on last season or this season month after month.

Huerter and Collins have flashed but Collins has been worse this season offensively which is what I expect as defenses take him seriously and improved on defense. That said, defensively, he's still flawed.

Kevin has regressed which also makes sense as his role has increased but those around him fit a lot less than last year. Especially the lost of Dewayne Dedmon. Dedmon lost has been a killer for Bembry, Huerter and Collins(offensively). 

TS made this situation extremely hard and that's because he wanted to maximize the growth for Hunter and Reddish. I don't know how losing a center even a swing one like Dedmon helps our development. He played an integral role in our short term development. 

We might be still in the playoff race with Dedmon right now. 

Obviously, the player I want is Adams. He would change so much for this team overnight. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by NBASupes

[macdaddy]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Thanks @REHawksFan! 

We need good veterans. That's our most urgent need

We also need continued development. Hunter hasn't improved much this year by the data. Maybe his role is too big. Watching the games, I've seen some improvement but not much.

Cam, Trae, Jabari, and Bruno have tremendously improved based on last season or this season month after month.

Huerter and Collins have flashed but Collins has been worse this season offensively which is what I expect as defenses take him seriously and improved on defense. That said, defensively, he's still flawed.

Kevin has regressed which also makes sense as his role has increased but those around him fit a lot less than last year. Especially the lost of Dewayne Dedmon. Dedmon lost has been a killer for Bembry, Huerter and Collins(offensively). 

TS made this situation extremely hard and that's because he wanted to maximize the growth for Hunter and Reddish. I don't know how losing a center even a swing one like Dedmon helps our development. He played an integral role in our short term development. 

We might be still in the playoff race with Dedmon right now. 

Obviously, the player I want is Adams. He would change so much for this team overnight. 

Agree on almost everything.  I'm just not sure about Hunter.  He's good but definitely not seeing rapid improvement.  Cam has improved a ton but still inconsistent.    Kevin makes me crazy sometimes.  Don't like him as a primary ball handler ever.  Especially now that we have 3 good PGs.  

[REHawksFan]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

TS made this situation extremely hard and that's because he wanted to maximize the growth for Hunter and Reddish. I don't know how losing a center even a swing one like Dedmon helps our development.

Yeah....I've been a big time defender and believer in TS, but he really screwed up with this roster construction. It makes me mad every time I watch a game. He REALLY overvalued Len and Jones, imo, while also undervaluing Dedmon.   

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

Agree on almost everything.  I'm just not sure about Hunter.  He's good but definitely not seeing rapid improvement.  Cam has improved a ton but still inconsistent.    Kevin makes me crazy sometimes.  Don't like him as a primary ball handler ever.  Especially now that we have 3 good PGs.  

Cam was so bad, you can see the tangible improvements. Hunter has just been solid but inconsistent. I think he had to take on too much when JC was out.

Huerter should always be a secondary ball handler. He's not srong enough with the ball to be a primary when he gets pressured and has to make primary decisions.

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Yeah....I've been a big time defender and believer in TS, but he really screwed up with this roster construction. It makes me mad every time I watch a game. He REALLY overvalued Len and Jones, imo, while also undervaluing Dedmon.   

Agree with this other than Dedmon.  I think Dedmon has demonstrably shown with his play this season that the problem was Sacramento overvaluing him.  He has been terrible this season and while it looked like he might be improving earlier this month when you take a look at his end of the month splits he continues to be terrible in January.  Just like every other month.  Sacramento should be trying to give him away with a chunk of cash.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Agree with this other than Dedmon.  I think Dedmon has demonstrably shown with his play this season that the problem was Sacramento overvaluing him.  He has been terrible this season and while it looked like he might be improving earlier this month when you take a look at his end of the month splits he continues to be terrible in January.  Just like every other month.  Sacramento should be trying to give him away with a chunk of cash.

I agree with rehawksfan and you, Dedmon was valued correctly market limit by TS. Where he incorrectly missed was that Dedmon isn't valuable to what we do and that Len could possibly replace it when he couldn't 

[AHF]

Just now, NBASupes said:

I agree with rehawksfan and you, Dedmon was valued correctly market limit by TS. Where he incorrectly missed was that Dedmon isn't valuable to what we do and that Len could possibly replace it when he couldn't 

I don't know that he even failed to correctly value Dedmon for us.  Maybe he did.  If he didn't even try to resign Dedmon and truly thought Len could replace him then that is totally fair. 

I just can see a scenario very easily where he said, "we plan to be in the lottery anyway next year and there is no way I'm going to pay that much for Dedmon.  That stinks because I'd hoped to return him for 3 year and $27M.  Oh well.  I guess we'll have to hope that Len can keep it up.  I'll see if I can flip Spellman for a real center to give us some more depth as well."

[Gray Mule]

Checking on last night's box score.  All 5 starters had terrible (-) in their line.  Two subs had (+)1 and one sub had (+)2.  That was all, except for our 3rd string center.  He, gasp, had a (+) 18 !!

This proves nothing.  I know.  He's no good and he can't.  But, he did something right.  Maybe he just stayed out of the way, didn't foul out and grabbed a few rebounds.  Whatever he did, it worked.  Think positive thoughts about Damian Jones.  He may be the young player to make a trade work.  You never know.

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Checking on last night's box score.  All 5 starters had terrible (-) in their line.  Two subs had (+)1 and one sub had (+)2.  That was all, except for our 3rd string center.  He, gasp, had a (+) 18 !!

This proves nothing.  I know.  He's no good and he can't.  But, he did something right.  Maybe he just stayed out of the way, didn't foul out and grabbed a few rebounds.  Whatever he did, it worked.  Think positive thoughts about Damian Jones.  He may be the young player to make a trade work.  You never know.

It proves nothing. Jones was awful. He just happen to play in stretches where Trae, Reddish, and Toronto was bricking everything. I guess if he did have value it was rim protection which is where Toronto destroyed us at

[KB21]

The thing with Dedmon is that he meshed well and fit well with the players in Atlanta.  He’s not the fit for Sacramento that he was in Atlanta.  

[REHawksFan]

12 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The thing with Dedmon is that he meshed well and fit well with the players in Atlanta.  He’s not the fit for Sacramento that he was in Atlanta.  

This is kinda what I was thinking as well. The fit in Atl seemed really good and it sure seemed like he had more value in the Hawks organization than the Kings. He has sucked this year though. No question about that. 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

The thing with Dedmon is that he meshed well and fit well with the players in Atlanta.  He’s not the fit for Sacramento that he was in Atlanta.  

I agree but his performance this year has been so bad that he clearly isn’t worth his contact.  For what he is being paid, he should be able to provide at least good value even if his value would be even better in a better fit.  He is woefully short of that.

[enrique]

3 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Here's a little illustration that, I think, really hammers home the point....

These are two graphs showing the Offensive and Defensive effectiveness of each player (logging more than 560 minutes total) on the Raptors and Hawks. The red diagonal line is the (0,0) line distinguishing between net positive players (to the right of the line) and net negative players (to the left). For those playing along at home, hate to ruin the suspense, but the Hawks ain't the graph on the left. That would the Raptors with 8 of 10 players posting net positive ratings and 4 of those with positive Offense and Defense ratings. The Hawks are the team with 4 negative negative players and 10 net negative players out of 12. 

So yeah......as @JayBirdHawk said, there's MANY deficiencies on this roster. It needs a TOTAL upgrade. The good news is those green dots on the Hawks chart are young guys and the only players under contract next year, so there's hope that players will improve with age and the roster will improve with time. 

Love, love, love the RAPTOR graph comparing them. What leaps out to me is that we really don’t have any positive defensive players outside of Cam and ?

crazy to see it laid out that way. 
Thanks! 

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, enrique said:

Love, love, love the RAPTOR graph comparing them. What leaps out to me is that we really don’t have any positive defensive players outside of Cam and ?

crazy to see it laid out that way. 
Thanks! 

Bembry.

Collins hasn't played enough mins