Official Game Thread: Pistons at Hawks

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Possibly worse loss of the year, but I might be wrong.

Not even close. This is on par with most of the backend of the B2Bs. 

The Knicks game will always be the worst.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Which is kind of my point Supes. Why waste Collins on one of Detroits weakest offensive players? Let Bruno and Jones wast all their energy on Drummond. Why is this so hard for you to figure out?

LP was riding the hot hand. What part of that do you not understand? It's not like LP just did it to do the shit. He was riding the lineup that had tremendous success this far with each other.

[Watchman]

I know I'll get the "you just look at the box score and didn't watch the game", but I assure you I did watch it.  Bruno is small as a center.  17 minutes, with 4 points and 3 rebounds does not seem like 200% to me.  He is too small to go against someone like Drummond, just like Collins is.  Bruno may put in a lot of effort, but it is not enough.  I have nothing against him, but he is a prototypical 3rd string big.  But no, we don't need someone like Drummond.  ***sarcasm alert***

Edited January 19, 2020 by Watchman

[NBASupes]

Like I said, we got two ballers coming in soon. Those two will make massive impact. We might not be perfect, but we are building right now. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Looks like they got 4 points in transition off of Drummond's 5 steals . . . and 6 points off of Drummond's 7 offensive rebounds.

[NBASupes]

 

 

[Buzzard]

16 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

LP was riding the hot hand. What part of that do you not understand? It's not like LP just did it to do the shit. He was riding the lineup that had tremendous success this far with each other.

We were down 16 at the half and he trotted out the same lineup. We were down 27 at the end of the 3rd and Bruno did not get the love he deserved; because LP's idea of an adjustment is not to adjust. As much as I love getting Teague, I have a bad feeling this is only going to confuse him more with what should be logical rotations based on match ups.

If we are going to lose like this, there is absolutely no harm in Bruno getting at least 25 minutes and some valuable experience against a center like Drummond. That is what bothers me. 

We get blown out by 33 at home; and Bruno gets BS 17 minutes and this is with Len being out. Makes zero sense to me.

[Buzzard]

12 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Looks like they got 4 points in transition off of Drummond's 5 steals . . . and 6 points off of Drummond's 7 offensive rebounds.

So its true that 16 PTS, 7 OREB, 17 REB, 3 AST, 5 STL has an  impact on the game. What a revelation.

No worries, LP thinks its cool to waste what little energy Collins had trying to defend a 6'10" Center who only weighs 280 LBS. I am sure John was up for that.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Buzzard

[TheNorthCydeRises]

18 minutes ago, Watchman said:

I know I'll get the "you just look at the box score and didn't watch the game", but I assure you I did watch it.  Bruno is small as a center.  17 minutes, with 4 points and 3 rebounds does not seem like 200% to me.  He is too small to go against someone like Drummond, just like Collins is.  Bruno may put in a lot of effort, but it is not enough.  I have nothing against him, but he is a prototypical 3rd string big.  But no, we don't need someone like Drummond.  ***sarcasm alert***

Bruno can play small ball center ( 2nd string ) . . . but a bonafide 2nd string PF . . . if developed correctly.  Defensively, Bruno may already be better than Collins, just for the fact that he knows how to use his body to play defense.

The reason why the Hawks stay small, is because LP doesn't want to make a decision about which wing to bring off the bench . . . Cam, Hunter, or Huerter. 

When Cam was playing terrible offensively, it was easy to have him be the guy that came off the bench.  But Cam is by far the best defensive option of the 3 and you probably need your best defensive wing to be a starter. 

Hunter may be the best all around wing, but LP plays him at the 4 to justify having he, Cam and Huerter in the starting lineup at the same time.

Huerter is by far the best shooter from deep, but a liability on defense.

 

Scrub big men play all the time in this league, if not just to keep some size on the floor.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

 

 

 

Supes, this is what I'm talking about.  How can LP make this kind of assessment?  Did he actually see how and why the blocks occurred?

Here are the Pistons' 8 blocks in tonight's game.  You tell me if LP's assessment on the guys not kicking it out and making them work defensively, is the correct reason why they got those blocks.

Normally blocks happen because the opponent is putting in the effort to contest shots, no matter where the shot is taken on the floor.

 

https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&CFID=&CFPARAMS=&PlayerID=0&TeamID=1610612765&GameID=0021900629&ContextMeasure=BLK&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular Season&LeagueID=00&PlusMinus=N&PaceAdjust=N&Rank=N&Outcome=&Location=&Month=0&SeasonSegment=&OpponentTeamID=0&VsConference=&VsDivision=&GameSegment=&Period=0&LastNGames=0&PORound=0&ShotClockRange=&DateFrom=&DateTo=&PerMode=Totals&MeasureType=Base&section=team

[Buzzard]

13 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Bruno can play small ball center ( 2nd string ) . . . but a bonafide 2nd string PF . . . if developed correctly.  Defensively, Bruno may already be better than Collins, just for the fact that he knows how to use his body to play defense.

The reason why the Hawks stay small, is because LP doesn't want to make a decision about which wing to bring off the bench . . . Cam, Hunter, or Huerter. 

When Cam was playing terrible offensively, it was easy to have him be the guy that came off the bench.  But Cam is by far the best defensive option of the 3 and you probably need your best defensive wing to be a starter. 

Hunter may be the best all around wing, but LP plays him at the 4 to justify having he, Cam and Huerter in the starting lineup at the same time.

Huerter is by far the best shooter from deep, but a liability on defense.

 

Scrub big men play all the time in this league, if not just to keep some size on the floor.

 

He needs to grow some balls and make damn decisions. There is 96 minutes for the SG/SF every game. Sit Bembry and give Huerter, Reddish, Hunter the minutes. Play Bruno and Collins and get Bruno some experience. Develop him, especially when a bigger line up is needed for match up purposes.

He needs to stop thinking its black and white. Hunter does not have to be the four with Collins at the five every game. This is why getting Teague worries me. He may keep playing Bembry at the 2 and 3 now just because Bembry is in his comfort zone.

Getting Teague should be all the more reason to sit Bembry. But we saw tonight, it did not work out like that. 20 minutes tonight and he averages 21.4. You say this about getting Huerter, Hunter, and Reddish in the starting lineup. It looks like its his reason to keep giving Bembry minutes to.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Buzzard

[Plainview1981]

A big problem is that Trae, Collins and Kevin are bad defenders. The core also lacks passing and athleticism to some degree.

[NBASupes]

26 minutes ago, Plainview1981 said:

A big problem is that Trae, Collins and Kevin are bad defenders. The core also lacks passing and athleticism to some degree.

That's the scary part. The passing will come with experience when they start moving well without the ball without thinking. Especially the two rookies who actually have movement skills. The athleticism is not bad, just not great. They will have to outsmart teams as they grow and get older. 

But Hots, this team's core has three bad defenders. No other way to slice it. This will always be an issue as well. I am hoping adding a player like Bertrans rubs off on the others. 

While I am not ready to put a price tag on most of the kiddos, no way is John Collins worth more than whatever Sabonis or Myles Turner is currently getting. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by NBASupes

[Plainview1981]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That's the scary part. The passing will come with experience when they start moving well without the ball without thinking. Especially the two rookies who actually have movement skills. The athleticism is not bad, just not great. They will have to outsmart teams as they grow and get older. 

But Hots, this team's core has three bad defenders. No other way to slice it. This will always be an issue as well. I am hoping adding a player like Bertrans rubs off on the others. 

While I am not ready to put a price tag on most of the kiddos, no way is John Collins worth more than whatever Sabonis or Myles Turner is currently getting. 

Collins just isn’t a big difference maker.

Now, I think part of the problem is that he is surrounded by youth.

When I look at Hunter, Collins and Kevin I see players that will best fit with good established teams that they can slide into the line up to fill a need.

You got Trae and then a host of complementary players.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Outside of the one steal he got that didn't count. Most of the steals were bad passes we were forcing to Collins. That's from Trae and Teague. You mentioning it like he was Cam on some Deion shit. Most of it was just awful reads as our dudes were either tired as shit or just didn't have chemistry yet like Teague. 

Drummond averages 2 steals a game, so it's not like this was some type of fluke.  He does a decent job in staying between his man and the ball handler, playing passing lanes, and getting to loose balls.  His defensive value is not fake.  Not by a long shot.

[NBASupes]

24 minutes ago, Plainview1981 said:

Collins just isn’t a big difference maker.

Now, I think part of the problem is that he is surrounded by youth.

When I look at Hunter, Collins and Kevin I see players that will best fit with good established teams that they can slide into the line up to fill a need.

You got Trae and then a host of complementary players.

I think every young player plays better around vets who can hoop. That's not a secret. That's a fact. 

I agree that Collins is not a difference maker. He's easier to scheme out than Kevin. That's a problem and I was on the train that he could potential score more with better players but LP completely disagreed and said he would be impressed if Collins scored 19/10 again. He was right. Teams have completely schemed the PnR effectiveness of Collins. He is primarily a PnP player these days. The PnR for us this year just leads to turnovers. It's even worse when a center is in the lineup with Collins. Collins defense has the potential of being a 7 while his offense has the potential of being 8.5. It's already a 8. 

I am a BIG believer in Hunter. I really think he can be good in time but I do agree with you on one thing. If he was playing with an established team like Toronto, he would be a lot more effective on a nightly basis right now. With us, his role is inconsistent, we don't share the ball enough, he has to create too much. It's not ideal at this moment. I still love him nonetheless.

Kevin is a strange one because I really don't think he would start for any playoff team but he would be vital to all of them as a reserve. Which leads me to my next point, what's Kevin best role for us moving forward. Just from what I see of others, starting him at SG needs to remain till someone takes it from him. 

Cam is already a + defender but offensively, he's too hot and cold and rides or dies due to his shooting. For a young team like us, I don't really mind that but of all four of the core guys outside of Trae, Cam is the only one who actually benefits more from this situation than the other four who would all be better with a more experienced situation. Even defensively, he needs to add more strength and craft so he can bump guys without it being a foul. 

I really like our core. The talent is there but they need a lot of time even when we add the right pieces. Honestly, this team will ride or die on Reddish. If he becomes a star or superstar. The sky is the limit, if he just remains inconsistent and Tony Allen like, the Hawks are pretty much an one man bandstand. Every team needs a duo if they really want to contend. 

I am interested in Bruno as well. I really think in three years, he could something good. I believe in Bruno too. 

8 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Drummond averages 2 steals a game, so it's not like this was some type of fluke.  He does a decent job in staying between his man and the ball handler, playing passing lanes, and getting to loose balls.  His defensive value is not fake.  Not by a long shot.

I didn't say it was a fluke. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by NBASupes

[thecampster]

8 hours ago, LK6969 said:

Since you're LP's wife please let him know tonight when you snuggle up to him in bed!
Starting Bruno at Center and JC at the Power Forward position is fine with me!

But knowing LP and his low basketball IQ, I wouldn't count on it. Let's see what the starting lineup is on Monday, shall we? 

Let's try to address the post please and not the poster.

[Thomas]

11 hours ago, GameTime said:

Bembry makes me miss Baze. And that says a lot.

Might be hard to locate Baze at the moment. Believe he is somewhere between Portland and Sacramento right now.

[Thomas]

12 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

My thing with LP in a game like this, is that you have to at least give Collins a chance to be protected.  Why have him up against Drummond?

Agree, its obviously not that Bruno and Jones will excel at C but definitely put JC where he does excel consistently, at PF. Better results. Let Bruno pick up those bruises, he doesn't seem like the kind of cat that minds that part of the game at all.

[NBASupes]

Bazemore never seemed to get his explosiveness back he lost at the end of last year