Half the season behind us, what FA targets are you most hoping on Schlenk's radar?

[sturt]

1 hour ago, Thomas said:

Only comments I have seen showed Zion stating Ingram is definitely an All Star

Right. So, I'm not persuaded that Zion has any problem playing beside Ingram long-term. Just questioning the other way around.

[High5]

If Ingram can’t stomach playing in Zion’s shadow, them I’m not sure he’s be happier playing 2nd fiddle to a higher usage star.

[Thomas]

Zion has just now stepped on the court but Trae is in his second year and battling for most points and assists per game in the league at this moment. Think Ingram will embrace the security the Pels can offer and a chance at building that team with the Z. Just a guess but it does feel the logical path for him to me.

[sturt]

 

2 hours ago, High5 said:

If Ingram can’t stomach playing in Zion’s shadow, them I’m not sure he’s be happier playing 2nd fiddle to a higher usage star.

 

Someone help me out... Trae's a PG right?

And he's both an elite scorer and an elite passer... yes, or, am I getting him confused with someone else?

And, and... yet he's widely considered to be the league's most selfish player, too, right?

And so I guess you're on to something, come to think of it.

 

More seriously, there's no one, Ingram included, that doesn't understand Trae has been high usage mainly because he's had to be... and that he would be more than happy to reduce that aspect of his stat line.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, Thomas said:

Zion has just now stepped on the court but Trae is in his second year and battling for most points and assists per game in the league at this moment. Think Ingram will embrace the security the Pels can offer and a chance at building that team with the Z. Just a guess but it does feel the logical path for him to me.

 

Maybe where we can agree.

He'll take the best offer.

Period.

 

[Lurker]

Maybe Malik Beasley to bring in some better athleticism at SG? Might be a tough get, but I'm not feeling Kevin.

[Buzzard]

Christian Wood is looking really good since the Drummond trade. February splits:

10 Games, 30MP, 19.3 PTS, 9.0 REB, 1.0 BLK

.523 FG%, .792 FT%, .385 3PT%

He is only 24 and Pistons should want to keep him. But at what price?

Edited February 26, 2020 by Buzzard

[sturt]

On my radar currently...

Draft

Tyrese Haliburton | PG-first combo guard with long arms that he uses so well defensively, who effectively replaces Bembry on depth chart. He is the 3-pt threat we've always wished Bembry could become. Incredibly quick, short stroke out there--virtually no wind-up in his trigger.

Alternatives: Virtually any of the top or second tier prospects are options worth considering, but I just especially like how Haliburton's skill set fits

 

Free Agency

Jeff Teague | Except for being the rare PG who actually blocks shots, too big a question-mark defensively to feel fully committed to this one, but it's a very convenient option at this point to have a veteran still capable to run a team and occasionally carry some offensive load.

Alternatives: If not Teague, then I see Haliburton as part of the PG depth chart instead of the SG depth chart, and I look to bring over our Euro-stash sharp-shooter, Marcus Erikkson.

 

Brandon Ingram | Represents our best opportunity in a pool of not-very-good opportunities this off-season (due to virtually no others) or next (due to the almost-certain increased competition) to secure a player who is poised to become part of the NBA's top tier of players for many years to come. Might not be successful, but owe it ourselves to try, again because there's not likely to be a better chance that comes along.

Alternatives: If not Ingram, the SF job is mainly Hunter's, and he's still capable, of course, of developing into a special player in his own right. In that case, I go get Jerami Grant to take many of the minutes Hunter doesn't.

 

DeMarre Carroll | Stars seem to be aligning for DMC to be a senior voice on this young team, because he's had a down year and he'll be 34 next season. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't expect him to be productive next season as much as it means I wouldn't expect him to be that demanding of either money or minutes. I think he would thrive in a role as a 3rd SF, not unlike Uncle Vince's role.

Alternatives: If not DMC, I'm looking to this slot to be filled by whoever we get in the 2nd round in the draft. Others would either be too demanding of more money or too demanding of more minutes, imo... including the aforementioned Jerami Grant. Grant only fits if we're not paying Ingram.

 

Paul Millsap | I especially love it if this were to complete the hat trick, because I believe Millsap would be the perfect seasoning of veteran grit and lunch-box production to the low post part of the roster. He's still widely regarded as a defensive asset as well. On the practice court and in the locker room, can't help but be a great influence. Perfect fit.

Alternatives: If not Millsap, I'm an enthusiastic advocate of a Derrick Favors return to Atlanta. And I really argued with myself whether Favors shouldn't get the nod over Sap because of the age difference, and the likelihood that you could sign Favors to become a long-term asset. But Millsap ultimately won that argument based on my optimism that Labissiere will grow to take over Millsap's role, and that both those two are capable threats behind the arc. Christian Wood is also a thought, but I consider Favors a better fit because of his veteran presence.

[Spud2nique]

12 minutes ago, sturt said:

Brandon Ingram

I still say he doesn’t fit our scheme. He’s talented but he’s not for us. We need guys the move without the ball better than Ingram when we have Trae and Cam developing.

[sturt]

On 2/24/2020 at 3:09 PM, Thomas said:

but do understand if Ingram moves over to us he will not be number one here either. Trae is the media focus here so what would be different with the change of address for him?

My bad. I totally overlooked your question here.

As said above, one part of the answer I immediately think of is that Trae is a true scoring and passing PG, and as such, I don't see him having any problem with taking a step back from the scoring part once an alpha-scorer wing emerges--whether that's Ingram, or whether that's one of our current wings.

Then, though, there's another part of the answer that probably goes more to your question than that part... which goes to how the media would treat Trae versus Ingram... versus... how the media is treating and will treat Zion versus Ingram.

Trae was a #5 pick, and he isn't Doncic, and he's a point guard. All of those make it different.

Zion was a #1 pick. And even if he wasn't the #1, he has the hype and following that is more like Luka's. But it's worse, actually, because he was the #1, too.

Zion is not a PG. So, think of it this way... if you're Adrian Dantley, and your star on the team will either be competing with an Isiah Thomas kind of star in DET or with a Karl Malone kind of star in UTH, which would you prefer? My guess is Thomas, because point guard Thomas, more than Malone, is going to complement (e not i) your game inherently in ways that Malone's cannot.

But beside all of that... again, it's not even really going to be a matter of Ingram's preference anyhow, because he's an RFA. An offer will be made, and only if it's more than NOP is willing to commit to will Ingram be leaving the Big Easy.

But, but, but, neutral parties are divided on Ingram's value, according to the ESPN mention cited earlier in this thread, so there's no absolute right or wrong opinion to be had. And it gets more compelling actually if Ingram continues to ascend since his max number can inflate to ~$35m... and same if Ingram's injury bug returns to spoil the season, since that just makes betting on his future a bigger risk.

 

[sturt]

18 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

We need guys the move without the ball better

Not sure what you're seeing that's got you persuaded of that, but let's accept for the moment that that's an accurate assertion... I would counter that counterbalancing that presumed situation is the undeniable point that he's a very good passer, so it's not as-if he's some Joe Johnson black hole once he gets the ball. The ball moves when he's on the court.

[Spud2nique]

9 minutes ago, sturt said:

I would counter that counterbalancing that presumed situation is the undeniable point that

... umm..ya I just think he needs a ball a bit too much with the focal point of our offense centered on Trae/Cam/Collins/Hunter. If we are trying to add Ingram, we’d most likely lose one of the aforementioned Hawk players.

[sturt]

 

6 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I just think he needs a ball a bit too much

I'm trying to mind meld here, but I'm not sure I'm picking up on what you're putting out. Maybe (???) you're thinking he's got too much of a Carmelo Anthony kind of game? I mean, if that's why you're reluctant, I would understand on the one hand, because I always considered Melo a great scorer and a capable passer, but never really an exceptional passer, or at least, not someone who was consistent or who seemed to take much pride in that.

That's not Ingram, though, from what I've watched.

11 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Trae/Cam/Collins/Hunter... If we are trying to add Ingram, we’d most likely lose one of the aforementioned Hawk players.

Um. Let's review.

Schlenk controls Trae for two seasons plus an RFA season at worst.

Schlenk controls Cam for three seasons plus an RFA season at worst.

Schlenk controls Collins for one more season plus an RFA season at worst.

Schlenk controls Hunter for three seasons plus an RFA season at worst.

All of those are going to be keep-able using Bird rights, too, of course, though some hard decisions might need to be made for 2023-24 where Cam or DH are concerned, since that would be the RFA season and it would be Ingram's last on the contract signed in summer 2020. But even then, you're in the driver's seat on what, if optimism proves correct, would be a great problem to have.

 

[KB21]

Spending big money on a Brandon Ingram, who really isn’t that good, is how teams end up capping themselves out.  

[sturt]

The jury is still out on how good he is... right now... and, let alone, how good he is going to be.

He was born in September 97. As was John Collins. And three months later, DeAndre Hunter came into the world.

They're all young, but to have the level of regard that he's earned this young, the trajectory is pretty impressive.

And again, I'll repeat myself. It's not like you're going to have a better opportunity in the foreseeable future, and before Trae and Collins get paid to add someone with Ingram's stock.

I'm more than happy to take the chance, but even more so given that there's not really any other options out there.

[Spud2nique]

13 minutes ago, sturt said:

The jury is still out on how good he is... right now... and, let alone, how good he is going to be.

He was born in September 97. As was John Collins. And three months later, DeAndre Hunter came into the world.

They're all young, but to have the level of regard that he's earned this young, the trajectory is pretty impressive.

And again, I'll repeat myself. It's not like you're going to have a better opportunity in the foreseeable future, and before Trae and Collins get paid to add someone with Ingram's stock.

I'm more than happy to take the chance, but even more so given that there's not really any other options out there.

You can’t really say we won’t have a better opportunity in the future, it’s too hard to tell. I’d rather take a gamble and grow than go after Ingram. Just me though.

[Lurker]

Ingram has steadily gotten better regardless of whether he's been on pro winning teams or not (which he hasn't been so far, but still).

I'm not interested though, and the odds of him being a possibility aren't great. New Orleans might be wrong on their feel, but they plan to max him and love his fit with Zion. Better idea would be to look to try to develop Reddish. I could see him being a secondary playmaker. 

I'd rather look to steal Malik Beasley. Since Brandon Ingram is out and Davis Bertans is probably out, the guy to steal out there would be Beasley. But that might be hard.

[sturt]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

You can’t really say we won’t have a better opportunity in the future, it’s too hard to tell. I’d rather take a gamble and grow than go after Ingram. Just me though.

Um. Have you slowed down to look?

Schlenk only has this off-season and next before two significant salaries are almost certainly going to be on the books (Collins and Young).

His capacity to sign a max free agent beginning off-season 2022 is severely compromised, at best.

 

[sturt]

2 hours ago, Lurker said:

I'm not interested though, and the odds of him being a possibility aren't great. New Orleans might be wrong on their feel, but they plan to max him and love his fit with Zion. Better idea would be to look to try to develop Reddish.

Many of us began this journey giving Schlenk the benefit of a doubt but also recognizing the truth that legitimate championship contending teams need at least one top tier NBA talent, and that, somewhat obviously, to the degree that you can possibly gain a second or a third, you make it increasingly likely that you'll summit that mountain into the NBA Finals.

Practically all of us began this journey exhausted by the hamster wheel years where we have been good enough to make the post-season, but almost never a threat to be taken seriously.

All of that to say, we might have enough talent already on the roster to some day summit, but that by no means is yet clear. Not even close.

And Schlenk has indicated almost all along that while the worst GM mistakes have been in making long, expensive deals with players who weren't worth it, he's also indicated the best possible scenario would be for some way some how a top tier talent to come to Atlanta. That is, after all, a big and good reason for carving out all that cap room for summers 2020 and 2021.

Use it. Or lose it.

The statement above that NOP plans to max Ingram is one of those "Well, of course they do" statements. Even for much lesser players, teams practically always say they plan to bring the guy back. Who's forgotten that the Hawks were definitely planning to bring back Horf? Anyone? Everyone? There is no disincentive to saying anything less than positive at this stage. But will NOP pay Ingram ~$35m/yr for 4 years or more? It's possible they could have to decide that. Or, will they pay Ingram ~$28m for 4 years or more even if he's again gotten injured at some point before the end of the season? Those two plausible situations would make his resigning in NOLA a bigger question mark than it already is... and, indeed, according to the ESPN report from just these last several days, "most executives" remain unpersuaded as to whether he'll be worth the max to NOP.

Finally... two things can be true at once. There is nothing about obtaining Ingram that would keep us from developing Reddish. Do both. The minutes loser in the scenario isn't even so much Hunter as it would be Huerter. But the benefit of having 4 or 5 solid wings through the course of an 82 game season these days, allowing you to weather injuries, is hard to overestimate.

[JayBirdHawk]

We aren't getting Ingram.