Official Game Thread: Grizzlies at Hawks

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Mike Smith syndrome at its finest!

Delusional talk. LP other than being a lot more talented at his job than Mike was, hasn't had a roster worth a shit which Mike actually had. What are you talking about? This is a team of young one way players for the most part. Hunter and Reddish are the only two who can defend worth a shit. This team needs experience and better vets. Even in the game yesterday v. Memphis. Memphis vets shined, our vets looked like trash. Their throwaway players like Josh Jackson outplayed all of our wings on both ends which isn't a surprise, he been killing us since his rookie year in PHX. 

Edited March 3, 2020 by NBASupes

[Gray Mule]

"I have nothing to say."  - - "You can't coach effort."

And, with those two statements. LP left.  

Every Hawk that played last night had a (-) in their column.  Can we, the fans, blame one or two Hawks?  Not in my thinking.  The entire team had a stinker game.  Everything that could possibly go wrong, did.

Our opponent had just added a new player.  He hadn't been there to even join his new team in a shooting exercise.  Pre game, some of us ask, "Will they dare let him in thee game?  Remember that every Hawk had the (-) in their column?  and, with big - numbers!

Tolliver did play!  He has a (+25) in his column and he went 4-5 from the floor and all 4 were three pointers!  Wow!  Just, wow!  What else can we say...

Did we really expect to win?  To, at last, have a 3 game winning streak?  Not really.  But, we didn't expect such a stinker that we witnessed last night.

On a side note:  A poster here who is usually critical of this young Hawk team actually has been one of the fans who has stuck up for the Hawk players in last night's game.  Thanks KB21...

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

"I have nothing to say."  - - "You can't coach effort."

 

Yeah you can!  That is one of the 1st things that shows up with a good coach...An increase in effort consistently

[NBASupes]

19 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

The problem I have with Trae last night is that his "off night" wasn't just about missing shots. Everyone dies that from time to time. No issue with that. No. The real problem was the WAY Trae was playing. It was his decisions. We could see it from his pregame comments about facing off vs Ja. He was looking for a big night vs the rook and he failed to get anyone else involved. He forced shots, turned it over, and generally failed to actually run the offense. 

You wont find a bigger Trae fan than me but last night was unacceptable.  And unfortunately it was also entirely predictable. 

That's the Stephon Marbury effect. That's why he keeps getting the comparison @Spud2nique. It's not about wins and losses. We are going to lose games. It how we lose them and how he plays which plays a significant role. 

 

Spud, the facts are: 

Trae is a rare offensive talent. As skilled as anyone who's ever played the game. Maybe more skilled than anyone and we had Pistol Pete. 

Trae has rare passing and playmaking skills

Trae has exceptional awareness. 

Trae has ATG range

Trae production in terms of efficient is legendary much less considering his age. 

 

Issues: 

Decision Making

Defensive Effort

What's more important, accolades or winning? 

Playing hard when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. 

Overdribbling and being a team player. 

 

Trae's strengths mean he will be box office but I don't want him to be Michael Vick in Atlanta. I want him to be as talented as Michael Vick in Atlanta while doing it the right way like Vick did in Philadelphia. 

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Yeah you can!  That is one of the 1st things that shows up with a good coach...An increase in effort consistently

This is not true. Stop saying it is. Thibs is the king of effort and Minny barely gave him any once Jimmy Butler wasn't on the court. 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

 Thibs is the king of effort and Minny barely gave him any once Jimmy Butler wasn't on the court. 

Thibs did coach a team in Chicago that gave a lot of effort you know!

[terrell]

41 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

This is not true. 

Who on this team can get to the rim outside of Trae Young and Cam Reddish at this stage of their careers? 

You are delusional if you think another coach is going to magically turn this team around

Well damn thats an indictment on Schlenk...Memphis just rebuilt too.And they look waaay better than us...And I dont even know who their coach is. lol

Edited March 3, 2020 by terrell

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[terrell]

24 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That's the Stephon Marbury effect. That's why he keeps getting the comparison @Spud2nique. It's not about wins and losses. We are going to lose games. It how we lose them and how he plays which plays a significant role. 

 

Spud, the facts are: 

Trae is a rare offensive talent. As skilled as anyone who's ever played the game. Maybe more skilled than anyone and we had Pistol Pete. 

Trae has rare passing and playmaking skills

Trae has exceptional awareness. 

Trae has ATG range

Trae production in terms of efficient is legendary much less considering his age. 

 

Issues: 

Decision Making

Defensive Effort

What's more important, accolades or winning? 

Playing hard when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. 

Overdribbling and being a team player. 

 

Trae's strengths mean he will be box office but I don't want him to be Michael Vick in Atlanta. I want him to be as talented as Michael Vick in Atlanta while doing it the right way like Vick did in Philadelphia. 

This is not true. Stop saying it is. Thibs is the king of effort and Minny barely gave him any once Jimmy Butler wasn't on the court. 

I have a feeling we're going to get Vick in Atlanta. And Vick didint have to worry about defensive effort..

Edited March 3, 2020 by terrell

[Thomas]

8 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Absolutely no. Cam could have been Michael Jordan in the finals tonight, it wasn’t gonna matter.

Its ok to say that as long as MJ is not in the room I guess.....he might have pulled that 63 against the Celtics out of his pocket you know. 

[Spud2nique]

39 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Decision Making

What? I agree with most of what you said except this. Trae is one of the best decision makers in the NBA. He’s navigating the team and making great plays, even the best assist guys throughout history will have turnovers (if ur up there in assists historically your gonna have a few turns even Stockton did) and off nights.

Im still not on board with the Marbury comparisons. Marbury never got as much pure joy from a dime that Trae gets. We just have an ultra young team and there will be bumps like last night in the road where he’s physically and mentally drained from having to carry our team most nights. This won’t be the case moving forward and on to next year.

[Spud2nique]

36 minutes ago, terrell said:

And I dont even know who their coach is. lol

Taylor Jenkins one of our assistants under Bud.

22 minutes ago, terrell said:

I have a feeling we're going to get Vick in Atlanta.

Ah what do you know...you don’t even know the coach of Memphis  

[AHF]

I would like it better if LP raised his hand and took some of the blame himself when the team is this flat.  When he basically says, "can't do anything when those losers don't try" it sends a message that he views it as all on the players.  And that is fine to do to the team but I'm less excited about it in the media.  I'd much prefer a message that, "The team came out flat and never brought the energy we needed to compete in this one.  It is unacceptable to me and I'm going to have to figure out what buttons to push to make sure this team doesn't play another one like this for the rest of the year.  We will work on skills and will have off nights, but I expect every one of my players to show pride and effort when they hit the floor in an Atlanta Hawks jersey."

Now as for whether coaches can coach effort, the truth is between the two extremes.  Coaches have a lot of influence over how hard their teams play.  Coaches like Spoelstra, Thibs, Riley, etc. absolutely have had a few bad teams that didn't give exceptional effort but those rosters or games have been the exception.  They are demanding coaches who have absolutely made it a hallmark of their teams that they play hard on the floor.  Other coaches don't inspire that kind of effort.

When a team doesn't try, you are either dealing with bad attitude players who don't care or a coach who doesn't demand enough from his team (or a combination of the two).  It is always easier to replace the coach, so LP needs to own this and do what he can.  The alternative is unloading the bad attitude players from the roster.

[NBASupes]

38 minutes ago, terrell said:

Well damn thats an indictment on Schlenk...Memphis just rebuilt too.And they look waaay better than us...And I dont even know who their coach is. lol

Memphis is not really a rebuild. That's a retool with lottery luck. Chicago and Orlando have tired the same to failed results on both. You don't need skill to get Ja Morant, you need luck. You don't need skill to draft Trae Young or Luka Doncic, you need luck and to not be a dumbass with how the game is played today. Even I've been a dumbass as well.

 

[AHF]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Memphis is not really a rebuild. That's a retool with lottery luck. Chicago and Orlando have tired the same to failed results on both. You don't need skill to get Ja Morant, you need luck. You don't need skill to draft Trae Young or Luka Doncic, you need luck and to not be a dumbass with how the game is played today. Even I've been a dumbass as well.

 

They were absolutely a rebuild.  They just traded their Sap and Horford for value instead of letting them walk and so they are on a faster pace than we are.

[Thomas]

Would not have won but this debacle did show how much we rely on Cam's D throughout a game. Any one stop can be a six point swing right there. Plus seems like Hunter is a different player with Cam on the floor to me.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

I would like it better if LP raised his hand and took some of the blame himself when the team is this flat.  When he basically says, "can't do anything when those losers don't try" it sends a message that he views it as all on the players.  And that is fine to do to the team but I'm less excited about it in the media.  I'd much prefer a message that, "The team came out flat and never brought the energy we needed to compete in this one.  It is unacceptable to me and I'm going to have to figure out what buttons to push to make sure this team doesn't play another one like this for the rest of the year.  We will work on skills and will have off nights, but I expect every one of my players to show pride and effort when they hit the floor in an Atlanta Hawks jersey."

Now as for whether coaches can coach effort, the truth is between the two extremes.  Coaches have a lot of influence over how hard their teams play.  Coaches like Spoelstra, Thibs, Riley, etc. absolutely have had a few bad teams that didn't give exceptional effort but those rosters or games have been the exception.  They are demanding coaches who have absolutely made it a hallmark of their teams that they play hard on the floor.  Other coaches don't inspire that kind of effort.

When a team doesn't try, you are either dealing with bad attitude players who don't care or a coach who doesn't demand enough from his team (or a combination of the two).  It is always easier to replace the coach, so LP needs to own this and do what he can.  The alternative is unloading the bad attitude players from the roster.

Spo and Riley is a culture. Thibs had a culture in Chicago but couldn't in Minny as the players were never into the culture to begin with. Wiggins and KAT aren't mentality that way. While all of the players from Chicago were brought in with that culture in mind. 

LP is all about culture too but his culture is more laxed but in order to be effective, LP needs players who mentally get it. I know Hunter gets it. I know Cam gets it. I don't know if Collins or Trae get it. Especially Trae. Maybe Trae will never get it and be Marbury 2.0

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

They were absolutely a rebuild.  They just traded their Sap and Horford for value instead of letting them walk and so they are on a faster pace than we are.

True

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

I know Hunter gets it. I know Cam gets it. I don't know if Collins or Trae get it. Especially Trae. Maybe Trae will never get it and be Marbury 2.0

Hmmm...agenda driven here ☝ 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Spo and Riley is a culture. Thibs had a culture in Chicago but couldn't in Minny as the players were never into the culture to begin with. Wiggins and KAT aren't mentality that way. While all of the players from Chicago were brought in with that culture in mind. 

LP is all about culture too but his culture is more laxed but in order to be effective, LP needs players who mentally get it. I know Hunter gets it. I know Cam gets it. I don't know if Collins or Trae get it. Especially Trae. Maybe Trae will never get it and be Marbury 2.0

Coaches build their culture.  If LP's culture is too lax, that is going to be a problem for him.  

I'm putting your Marbury 2.0 take in with Soth's Acie Law 2.0 take.  You'll be happy to look back on that and laugh that you ever compared the two.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Would not have won but this debacle did show how much we rely on Cam's D throughout a game. Any one stop can be a six point swing right there. Plus seems like Hunter is a different player with Cam on the floor to me.

It's because Hunter is an excellent defender but Cam does the ground covering. Cam is like Deion Sanders while Hunter is Jesse Tuggle. Without Sanders, Hunter can't cover for space. He can only do what he does. Collins is like a decent DE who likes to get sacks at a solid rate but is terrible in run coverage, are those three down DEs?