Coach Bud was never that good of a coach

[benhillboy]

10 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Nah . . . we didn't want to go the Miami route 2 years ago.  Only a few of us were wanting a guy like Jimmy to come here.

 

 

These radial plots might be my favorite analysis tool right now, shout out to Supes for introducing it to the Squawk I think.

https://arjb10.shinyapps.io/radialplots/

I always knew it would be easy to build around Butler but Dragic is an exemplary fit if you look at Jimmy as a 2 (which I do).  You just need the proper brass and coaching staff in place who don’t pay lip service to defense which we certainly do not.
 

I see the best fit beside Trae (doesn’t need to be on ball, good-great defender, good-great three point shooter, good rebounding for a 2) as some combination of Norman Powell, Danny Green, and Caris LeVert.  If Cam’s improvement in finishing, three point shooting, and efficiency continue while allowing Trae to dominate the ball with the first unit he’d be perfect.  I prefer my other playmaker/ shot creator in the front court.  Guys like Jaylen Brown or Paul George would seem like no-brainers but their ability to make plays on the ball would get in the way of Trae (who isn’t exactly JJ Redick off the ball) and our payroll.

Edited September 5, 2020 by benhillboy

[Peoriabird]

9 minutes ago, kg01 said:

 he said the team they actually try to 'play like' is Miami.

I can't disagree with him more.  Miami plays defense.  Lloyd Pierce's teams don't

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

I can't disagree with him more.  Miami plays defense.  Lloyd Pierce's teams don't

You have to realize, at this point, you've rendered your coaching-related opinions pretty moot.

[Peoriabird]

12 minutes ago, kg01 said:

You have to realize, at this point, you've rendered your coaching-related opinions pretty moot.

Likewise

[bleachkit]

53 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So are you concluding that Miami has more talent or better coaching?

Talent. Milwaukee has no guard play whatsoever. Regular season records are overrated.

Edited September 5, 2020 by bleachkit

[Peoriabird]

Just now, bleachkit said:

Talent. Milwaukee has no guard play whatsoever. 

Miami has 1 all star and a bunch of undrafted players on their team.  How can they have more talent than the #1 seed with the 2 time MVP?

[JayBirdHawk]

10 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Nah . . . we didn't want to go the Miami route 2 years ago.  Only a few of us were wanting a guy like Jimmy to come here.

 

 

We would have gotten the Philly Jimmy that left for Miami. The Hawks had already decided the rebuild was the route they were taking the previous year by not resigning Milsap, trading Dennis the year they drafted Trae. No use bringing in a guy that would leave. Can you imagine Jimmy the 1st month of Trae struggling?

The only good thing from that would have come from that trade is we would have traded Baze (though I doubt Minny would want him over Covington at $10 mil vs $18 mil), so we wouldn't have him to trade for Punch face Evan Turner the next year.

So let's look at all the hindsight stuff. We trade Baze and Prince for Butler we win a few more games over the 29 we won but still not make the playoffs. We are now ahead of Dallas in the win column, they get to keep their pick, so we don't draft Cam Reddish and are picking #18 or later this year.  We end up with a possibly lower that #8 pick since we've won a few more games with Butler. We've traded Prince so we can't make the BKN deal to get the #17 last year to use to trade up to get Hunter, but we also don't have #8, we also don't have #17 this year to trade for Capela. We do like it was rumored that Philly did and offered Jimmy a max to not visit any other teams during FAcy but he visits Miami anyway and signs with them. 

So we are left with Trae, whoever we selected last year not named Hunter or Reddish and Collins. Did I get all the hindsights that could happen? Probably not.

[Peoriabird]

8 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Talent. Milwaukee has no guard play whatsoever. 

We may have to do a poll on this one.  I know some of y'all still want to protect your favorites like Bud and Giannis but reality is reality.  Milwaukee was the #1 seed 2 years in a row with the league MVP and the clear favorite to reach the finals.  For the 2nd straight year, the team is being out coached.

[bleachkit]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Miami has 1 all star and a bunch of undrafted players on their team.  How can they have more talent than the #1 seed with the 2 time MVP?

Who cares where they were drafted. NBA drafts teenagers, it's basically a guess, and it skews towards early bloomers. Miami has much better playmaking with Jimmy, Adebayo and Dragic all averaging more than 5 assists a game. They got 2 excellent shooters in Herro and Robinson. Milwaukee feels like that first Cavs team LeBron brought to the finals.

[bleachkit]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

We may have to do a poll on this one.  I know some of y'all still want to protect your favorites like Bud and Giannis but reality is reality.  Milwaukee was the #1 seed 2 years in a row with the league MVP and the clear favorite to reach the finals.  For the 2nd straight year, the team is being out coached.

I'm not a Bud fan, he acted like a bitch with his departure from the Hawks. But Im not sure what adjustments he can make in this series.

[bleachkit]

13 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We would have gotten the Philly Jimmy that left for Miami. The Hawks had already decided the rebuild was the route they were taking the previous year by not resigning Milsap, trading Dennis the year they drafted Trae. No use bringing in a guy that would leave. Can you imagine Jimmy the 1st month of Trae struggling?

The only good thing from that would have come from that trade is we would have traded Baze (though I doubt Minny would want him over Covington at $10 mil vs $18 mil), so we wouldn't have him to trade for Punch face Evan Turner the next year.

So let's look at all the hindsight stuff. We trade Baze and Prince for Butler we win a few more games over the 29 we won but still not make the playoffs. We are now ahead of Dallas in the win column, they get to keep their pick, so we don't draft Cam Reddish and are picking #18 or later this year.  We end up with a possibly lower that #8 pick since we've won a few more games with Butler. We've traded Prince so we can't make the BKN deal to get the #17 last year to use to trade up to get Hunter, but we also don't have #8, we also don't have #17 this year to trade for Capela. We do like it was rumored that Philly did and offered Jimmy a max to not visit any other teams during FAcy but he visits Miami anyway and signs with them. 

So we are left with Trae, whoever we selected last year not named Hunter or Reddish and Collins. Did I get all the hindsights that could happen? Probably not.

The timing wasn't right for a trade like that. Bringing in Jimmy would not have worked. 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Who cares where they were drafted. NBA drafts teenagers, it's basically a guess, and it skews towards early bloomers. Miami has much better playmaking with Jimmy, Adebayo and Dragic all averaging more than 5 assists a game. They got 2 excellent shooters in Herro and Robinson. Milwaukee feels like that first Cavs team LeBron brought to the finals.

So in your opinion, Is Bud a better coach than Spo and the only reason Spo's team is crushing the Bucks is because Miami's team talent is so much better?

[kg01]

27 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Likewise

You don't even know what my opinions are ..... because I don't exhaustively pursue every coach-related post with my one-note opinions.

[bleachkit]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

So in your opinion, Is Bud a better coach than Spo and the only reason Spo's team is crushing the Bucks is because Miami's team talent is so much better?

Spo is an excellent coach, he's as good as Bud in my opinion. Bud is a little too devoted to his system, and his playoff struggles can't be dismissed as a fluke at this point.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

You don't even know what my opinions are ..... because I don't exhaustively pursue every coach-related post with my one-note opinions.

[High5]

10 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Nah . . . we didn't want to go the Miami route 2 years ago.  Only a few of us were wanting a guy like Jimmy to come here.

 

 

Miami didn't trade for a perpetually disgruntled rental in the 2nd year of a total rebuild. You're conveniently ignoring that crucial detail. 

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Spo is an excellent coach, he's as good as Bud in my opinion. Bud is a little too devoted to his system, and his playoff struggles can't be dismissed as a fluke at this point.

I don't remember which GM said this ( I think it was Jerry West or Jerry Colangelo)  but he said no matter how many great bigs you have, unless you have a guard that can get them the ball where/when they are supposed to, their greatness will always be limited or they'll never reach their full potential (or something like that).

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I'm not a Bud fan, he acted like a bitch with his departure from the Hawks. But Im not sure what adjustments he can make in this series.

Play Giannis more than 34 minutes.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I don't remember which GM said this ( I think it was Jerry West or Jerry Colangelo)  but he said no matter how many great bigs you have, unless you have a guard that can get them the ball where/when they are supposed to, their greatness will always be limited or they'll never reach their full potential (or something like that).

I wonder who was bold enough to say this before the series started...Like No One?  And now People are claiming I saw it coming a mile away.  "Milwaukee has no guards therefore I knew they would get swept by Miami" or "Miami Is the more talented team"

[NBASupes]

With the exception of Adebayo, Jimmy and Dragic were tremendous passers out of college or international careers. Adebayo showed tremendous flashes in AAU and HS but at UK, you didn't see anything that said he would be this.