John Collins

[bleachkit]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

That's literally true for every player, bleachk.  Thanks for your contribution.

In theory, teams sell low all the time.

[macdaddy]

Through 3 games Collins is the only starting caliber NBA big on our roster who's been healthy.  Not sure where 'we don't need him' comes from.

[Peoriabird]

John has played out of position for most of this season this far.  foul trouble and a weird game 3 game plan has hurt his production. No one seems to be able to explain why a replacement player shot more 3's last night than total shots by John Collins. Just doesn't make any sense to me. Like I said before, John needs to be more a focal point in this offense.

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

John has played out of position for most of this season this far.  foul trouble and a weird game 3 game plan has hurt his production. No one seems to be able to explain why a replacement player shot more 3's last night than total shots by John Collins. Just doesn't make any sense to me. Like I said before, John needs to be more a focal point in this offense.

I agree with that.  He had deep position on smaller guys a ton and the guards just didn't throw it to him.  Not sure why.

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I agree with that.  He had deep position on smaller guys a ton and the guards just didn't throw it to him.  Not sure why.

In all 3 games this has happened and they missed him. With the way he's getting fouled and shooting freethrows, throw it in.

[kg01]

17 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Through 3 games Collins is the only starting caliber NBA big on our roster who's been healthy.  Not sure where 'we don't need him' comes from.

It's because Nate Toppin ... ah, that Freudian slip again .. Nate Knight played well that one quarter+.

16 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

John has played out of position for most of this season this far.  foul trouble and a weird game 3 game plan has hurt his production. No one seems to be able to explain why a replacement player shot more 3's last night than total shots by John Collins. Just doesn't make any sense to me. Like I said before, John needs to be more a focal point in this offense.

If DET defended Collins the way they ignored defended Hill, Collins would've had more shots.  Obv.

[kg01]

Dupl

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by kg01

[Buzzard]

I like Collins a lot. I think he gives this team some toughness as he does not back down on his assignments no matter how bad his match up is. I don't think he is worth 5 @ 146 million max by any means.

I am really dreading next off season. I can see a team like Chicago, Dallas, OKC, or the Knicks willing to overpay him to add a 2nd or 3rd wheel.

[jmac54]

Again. I'm not saying we don't need him as in hes useless. I'm saying management will not be willing to fork over a max contract to a guy who has put up less than the 20&10 he usually does. It's just that simple. There will be teams out there throwing the max at him. That's going to happen. A desperate team will give him that contract and we will be either forced to match or let him walk for nothing. And management cannot let him walk for nothing. They need something in return. Therefore if the right trade comes up during the season then maybe make that move. I feel like people in here think he's gonna accept 20m a year. No chance. He just turned down 4yr/90. He's going to have a tough time getting that same production from seasons before but still wanting the max contract. Because this team is deep. Everyone is an option on the floor now. Collins isn't even really the #2 option anymore. I'm not literally saying we don't need him cause he is very good. But we need defence before anything. We're 3-0 against sorry teams. We will see how we do against Brooklyn. 

[lethalweapon3]

~lw3

[RedDawg#8]

John has to get better at staying on his feet defensively. And not reaching to make silly contact fouls.

Its hard to produce from the bench because you pick up 2 fouls in the 1st quarter of every game.

Once he cleans that up, he has a better chance to stay on the floor and get in to a rhythm.

[kg01]

1 hour ago, RedDawg#8 said:

John has to get better at staying on his feet defensively. And not reaching to make silly contact fouls.

Its hard to produce from the bench because you pick up 2 fouls in the 1st quarter of every game.

Once he cleans that up, he has a better chance to stay on the floor and get in to a rhythm.

Unfortunately, some of that is him cleaning up for others' mistakes imho.  Getting put in bad situations where the only option is to foul a guy with deep positioning and whatnot.  I think that kinda goes with the territory as he works to be better on defense.

As you suggest, keep working, the fouls should decrease.

[mrhonline]

Three things we still need more info about ---

1. Can LP fit JC and Capela together?
2. How well does JC play with Okongwu?
3. Was the hot 3 pt shooting a fluke?

[JeffS17]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I don't agree or disagree. I just said +/- is a poor indicator. Sometimes you can be on the court with someone else getting blasted and it shows as your error too which is not the case. Look at Nathan Knight. He was killing but ended with a negative but he played well on both ends.

yeah, +/- is probably the most misused and often cited stat.  It's decent for judging different lineups over the course of a season but not much else imo

[terrell]

7 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Hawks didn't offer enough.

Collins wanted too much.

Now, neither side is really happy.

Hawks offered plenty imo..

[terrell]

6 hours ago, kg01 said:

I don't think people think this part through enough.

Your earlier point was also salient.  Do people think we're on top of the mountain because we're 3-0?  Like we're in a position to jettison off talent like we've got it all figured out.

People need to understand it's a long season and, although his counting stats haven't been impressive, nothing's happened that suggests we "don't need" Collins now.

Like Nathan Toppin -er- I mean Nathan Knight popped for a solid half-a-game and we don't need Collins now?  C'mon, people.

Sorry for that Freudian slip on Nathan's name, btw. 

Nathan looks better than Obi...lol....

[JayBirdHawk]

I think John disagrees, lol.

[ATLHawks3]

This is why sample size matters, and why people shouldn't overreact to 3 games.

[capstone21]

He has shown especially the last two games that he is not empty stats ... he is extremely important to our success ... probably second to Trae 

[macdaddy]

Kept thinking about this thread last night.   JC did some serious punking on the Nets.   Capela is new so i'll give him a pass but he played terrible.   He had a couple decent stretches late but for the most part looked lost, didn't box anyone out.   If we're thinking we don't need JC because we have Capela then we should pump the brakes on that.