Trae = Historical.

[REHawksFan]

19 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Wanting to see other players with similar metrics for a basis of comparison is ridiculous? No, it's relevant. Why are you using Stockton and Kidd, guys that played in a different era? Nice try. Other guards in the NBA are having better statistical seasons that Trae RIGHT NOW.

Luka-28.6 PTS/9 AST/8.4TRB / .478FG%/.357 3PT%/ .757 FT%/ .541eFG

Dame-29.8 PTS/8 AST/4.3TRB/  .445FG%/ .384 3PT%/ .933 FT%/ .548eFG

Harden-25.3 PTS/11.1AST/ 7.8TRB/ .484FG%/ .401 3PT%/ .859 FT%/ .581eFG

So yes, you can set ARBITRARY lines among any of these players that would exclude the other, including Trae. 

Personally, there's nothing arbitrary about looking at what Trae is actually accomplishing and then looking to see how many players in NBA history have accomplished the same or better.  I think that's fair.  And by definition if no other player in history is putting up the combination of numbers he is then it IS historic.  

You can do the same for Luka, Dame, Harden, Steph, whomever you choose.  There's nothing wrong with looking to see how many people are putting up the same or better numbers as a given player.  

But the real question, in my mind anyway, is what is the relevance or importance of these stats?  How challenging is it to put up those numbers and what do they mean? I get that you could always add in some random statistic specific to one player that would exclude all others, but that's not what anyone is doing here.

If you break it down like @thecampster did and look at the combination of scoring and assists with the number of FTs, it paints the picture of a much more well rounded player than a lot of historical players.  And yes, context matters too because the era they play in and style and pace of play also impact these numbers.  

I just think looking at the overall season Trae (or any player) has and then measuring that against other players is a good way to determine how common it is for a player to put up those numbers.  IF Trae, Luka, and Harden all end up as the only 3 players in history to put up certain numbers, does it make them less historical?  Not at all, imo.  

[REHawksFan]

On 3/7/2021 at 8:12 AM, thecampster said:

Now 43% isn't a good shooting percentage. However, if you factor in he takes 17.9 shots per game, of which 3 register as shooting attempts where he is fouled in the act of shooting, these go as shooting attempts (there is wonkiness in how the NBA counts and doesn't account shot attempts in the act of shooting).  It is fair to say these 3 misses per game are attributed to him being fouled. So his actually shooting percentage is 7.7 attempts on 14.9 shots or 51.7%.

Are you sure that is correct??   I don't think missed shots due to being fouled count as FGA.  I can't find anything that supports that statement either.  I'm pretty sure missed shots do not count but makes do.  

[bleachkit]

8 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Are you sure that is correct??   I don't think missed shots due to being fouled count as FGA.  I can't find anything that supports that statement either.  I'm pretty sure missed shots do not count but makes do.  

They don't count as FGA. 

[thecampster]

9 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Are you sure that is correct??   I don't think missed shots due to being fouled count as FGA.  I can't find anything that supports that statement either.  I'm pretty sure missed shots do not count but makes do.  

This will take some research on my part. The NCAA rule is a player fouled in the act of shooting is not charged a FG attempt. This rule is supposed to be the same in the NBA. However, scorekeepers will charge some shots as shots. Typically (and this isn't how its supposed to be) but if the comes post release or if the foul did not impact the normal shooting motion. There's some interpretation thing in there and I'll have to find it.

It's like I said, a bit wonky but the NBA defines "the act of shooting" a bit different than the NCAA.  But there is discretion on behalf of the scorekeeper if the foul could have made any change to the shot. Just reread the official NBA rules section and its not "clear" there. There is no guideline on scorekeeping.

 

https://official.nba.com/rule-no-4-definitions/#Fouls

 

[thecampster]

As you can see below, the definition of a FGA, does not include fouls in the NBA and you can see it is the duty of the scorers to keep track of all that basic data.  in the act of a discrepancy, the official can override a score keeper if necessary. But as far as clear guidance as in the NCAA, it does not exist.  Most score keepers will count a shot as a field goal attempt if the foul occurs after the shot is released or if the foul did not change the player's attempt in any way. You see a couple of these a game. I have no idea of how much this has or affected Trae's numbers. I only cited it as a mitigating factor and used 3 as an example, not the clear amount.

 

Official duties of score and time keepers.

Section XI-Field Goal Attempt

"A field goal attempt is a player's attempt to shoot the ball into his basket for a field goal. The attempt starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the actual shot. It continues until the shooting effort ceases and he returns to a normal floor position. The term is also used to include the movement of the ball in flight until it has become dead or has been touched by a player."

 

Section VII-Duties of Scorers

a. The scorers shall record the field goals made, the free throws made and missed and shall keep a running summary of the points scored. They shall record the personal and technical fouls called on each player and shall notify the officials immediately when a sixth personal foul is called on any player. They shall record the timeouts charged to each team, shall notify a team and its coach through an official whenever that team takes a sixth and seventh charged timeout and shall notify the nearest official each time a team is granted a charged timeout in excess of the legal number. In case there is a question about an error in the scoring, the scorer shall check with the crew chief at once to find the discrepancy. If the error cannot be found, the official shall accept the record of the official scorer, unless he has knowledge that forces him to decide otherwise.

b. The scorers shall keep a record of the names, numbers and positions of the players who are to start the game and of all substitutes who enter the game. When there is an infraction of the rules pertaining to submission of the lineup, substitutions or numbers of players, they shall notify the nearest official immediately if the ball is dead, or as soon as it becomes dead if it is in play when the infraction is discovered. The scorer shall mark the time at which players are disqualified by reason of receiving six personal fouls, so that it may be easy to ascertain the order in which the players are eligible to go back into the game in accordance with Rule 3-Section 1.

c. The scorers shall use a horn or other device unlike that used by the officials or timers to signal the officials. This may be used when the ball is dead or in certain specified situations when the ball is in control of a given team. The scorer shall signal the coach on the bench on every personal foul, designating the number of personal fouls a player has, and number of team fouls. NOTE: White paddles-team fouls; Red paddles-personal fouls.

d. When a player is disqualified from the game, or whenever a penalty free throw is being awarded, a buzzer, siren or some other clearly audible sound must be used by the scorer or timer to notify the game officials. It is the duty of the scorekeeper to be certain the officials have acknowledged the sixth personal foul buzzer and the penalty shot buzzer.

e. The scorer shall not signal the officials while the ball is in play, except to notify them of the necessity to correct an error.

f. Should the scorer sound the horn while the ball is in play, it shall be ignored by the players on the court. The officials must use their judgment in stopping play to consult with the scorer's table.

g. Scorers shall record on the scoreboard the number of team fouls up to a total of five, which will indicate that the team is in a penalty situation.

h. Scorers shall immediately record the name of the team which secures the first possession of the jump ball which opens the game.

i. Scorers shall record all illegal defense violations and notify the officials every time AFTER the first violation charged to each team

Section VIII-Duties of Timers

a. The timers shall note when each half is to start and shall notify the crew chief and both coaches five minutes before this time, or cause them to be notified at least five minutes before the half is to start. They shall signal the scorers two minutes before starting time. They shall record playing time and time of stoppages as provided in the rules. The timers shall be provided with an extra stopwatch to be used in timeouts, etc., other than the official game clock or watch. The official clock or scoreboard should show 12 minute periods.

b. At the beginning of the first period, any overtime period or whenever play is resumed by a jump ball, the game clock shall be started when the ball is legally tapped by either of the jumpers.

c. If, after time has been out, the ball is put in play by a throw-in or by a free throw, the game clock shall be started when the ball is legally touched by a player on the court.

d. During a jump ball, time may not be reduced from the 24-second clock or game clock if there is an illegal tap.

e. The game clock shall be stopped at the expiration of time for each period and when an official signals timeout. For a charged timeout, the timer shall start a timeout watch and shall signal the official when it is time to resume play.

f. The timer shall indicate with a controlled game horn the expiration of playing time. If the timer's signal falls to sound, or is not heard, the timer shall use other means to notify the officials immediately. If, in the meantime, a goal has been made or a foul has occurred, the crew chief shall consult the timer. If the timer agrees that time expired before the ball was in flight, the goal shall not count. If he agrees that the period ended before the foul occurred, the foul shall be disregarded unless it was unsportsmanlike. If there is a disagreement, the goal shall count or the foul shall be penalized unless the official has other knowledge.

g. In a dead ball situation, if the clock shows :00.0, the period or game is considered to have ended although the buzzer may not have sounded.

h. Record only the actual playing time in the last minute of the first, second and third periods.

i. Record only the actual playing time in the last two minutes of the fourth period and the last two minutes of any overtime period or periods.

j. Timers are responsible for contents in Comments on the Rules-Basic Principles-Section N.

[Peoriabird]

This is how the league sees Trae young!

 

[macdaddy]

16 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

This is how the league sees Trae young!

 

I couldn't make it through this bs.   The one truth is that he's not respected because he's small.   And for some reason he's not supposed to draw fouls, argue with refs, showboat.  Every other top player in the league does all of these things.  The numbers are undeniable.   The team record is comparable or better than all but 5 or 6 teams in the league.   I guess he's going to end up being like Isaiah Thomas but he was hated for being a prick and being small.  Trae is just hated for being small and being elite when everyone wanted him to bust.

[REHawksFan]

18 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I couldn't make it through this bs.   The one truth is that he's not respected because he's small.   And for some reason he's not supposed to draw fouls, argue with refs, showboat.  Every other top player in the league does all of these things.  The numbers are undeniable.   The team record is comparable or better than all but 5 or 6 teams in the league.   I guess he's going to end up being like Isaiah Thomas but he was hated for being a prick and being small.  Trae is just hated for being small and being elite when everyone wanted him to bust.

Definitely infuriating throughout most of it. But by the end I was just laughing at this dude.  But one thing he said was accurate...the way to shut people up (including this dude) is to lead the hawks to the playoffs and win.  Do that and no one will be able to say anything.  

I know Trae believes he can do it.  I'm in the minority but I believe he can too.  We'll just have to see if he's right or the haters are right.  

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

Definitely infuriating throughout most of it. But by the end I was just laughing at this dude.  But one thing he said was accurate...the way to shut people up (including this dude) is to lead the hawks to the playoffs and win.  Do that and no one will be able to say anything.  

I know Trae believes he can do it.  I'm in the minority but I believe he can too.  We'll just have to see if he's right or the haters are right.  

He can definitely do it.   Just frustrating that this isn't the standard for Luka, zion, ja, fox, booker etc. 

[Gray Mule]

ENTIRE ATLANTA HAWK ORGINIZATION GETS SLAPPED IN THE FACE !

Yep.  The NBA held their annual All Star get together in Atlanta.  Then, to insult the Hawks and all their fans, no one from Atlanta was deemed good enough.  Fans voted, No.  Sports writers, NBA teams and their coaches and everyone else who had a voice voted, no.  We're coming to your house to play but none of you are good enough to take part in any of the contests or the game.

Trae took the hardest lick.  He went from a starter last year to not even being invited this year.  Did his play fall off that much?  His stats say, no, they are about the same as last season.  Did another player who plays the same position explode and become so much better?  Not so anyone would notice.

Atlanta's record?  Nope.  The Hawks didn't have a great record last season.  In fact, it was worse than this season's record.  We prefer not to see anyone from the Atlanta Hawks taking part in any of this.

I didn't watch any of it.  Not because we were shut out.  I just don't care for their shooting exebition that they call a game.  But, I am, as you can see, upset about how the entire NBA treated our Hawk team.

How will our team react?  Will they let this get them down?  Will they ignore this?  Or, will they use this insult as motivation.  I hope that this is what happened.  We're not good enough?  Oh, yeah?  Well, take this!  Pow!  Over and over.  Until the season's end and into the playoffs!

GO ATL HAWKS !!

 

[HawkItus]

On 3/8/2021 at 8:02 PM, Peoriabird said:

This is how the league sees Trae young!

 

Horrible

 

[RedDawg#8]

I wouldn't take too much stock in to some random youtuber's opinion.

[QuantumHawkz]

Trae's defense has improved. If he keeps this up he'll be a average Iso defender and a good team defensive player. Which is all we can ask for.

[hazer]

I don’t give a flying FLIP what everybody else is saying or thinks, I’m only concerned with Ice Très’ nimbers and winning in the postseason. Get all that other ship outta here

[RedDawg#8]

Trae has proven since before he came to the league that he can produce numbers. The question is can a TEAM that features Trae Young produce?

That question is up to the entire organization to answer. From the surrounding cast brought in, to the coaching that will lead him. It's not just on him to get it done on the court. 

[hazer]

2 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Trae has proven since before he came to the league that he can produce numbers. The question is can a TEAM that features Trae Young produce?

That question is up to the entire organization to answer. From the surrounding cast brought in, to the coaching that will lead him. It's not just on him to get it done on the court. 

“...and winning in the postseason.” Sooo, YEP

[Spud2nique]

Just now, hazer said:

“...and winning in the postseason.” Sooo, YEP

People can knock Trae all they want but I’ve said this for 3 years now, that kid gets into the playoffs and he’s trouble. 
 

I can see us taking the Bucks out in an upset if we get in. Just sayin. 

[ATLHawks3]

I just hope De'Andre will be back by atleast early April.