The official NBASupes 2021 NBA Draft thread

[NBASupes]

On 7/7/2021 at 11:02 AM, NBASupes said:

 

If I had to rank out my top 10, it would be: 

1. Cade - Prototype - Dual Forward - Most valuable prototype there is if at an exceptionally high level. 

2. Green - Prototype - Shooting Guard - Players with 30ppg potential who can play excellent defense are nearly impossible to find. While he's not Kobe/MJ who can guard 2/3, Green can guard the 1/2 position which is more valuable in the modern NBA. 

3. Mobley - Prototype - Unicorn/Hybrid Post - Unicorns have general failed in the NBA or had short lived success (Odom, Bender, KP, Bamba) due to a lack of position. Stretch bigs have had more success but they had to develop into it like John Collins. Mobley is a tremendous defender who can defend 3-5 and protect the rim and that should earn him minutes but offensively, he's going to have to develop. As of right now, he's a 7' wing and doesn't have the height to score in the post like KP had even with limited post moves. Mobley best trait is he's a good PnR finisher which matters. 

4. Kuminga - Prototype - Hybrid Post - What I like about Kuminga is he's very projectable. He has a smooth shooting stroke which will translate and having a year in a NBA setting will only help him majority in year 2. His talent level is off the charts. He can be a potential 3 level scorer who can score in so many ways potentially. Defensively, he's decent, not great or the potential to be great. He has a great frame and will likely topped out at 235-240 range. He's this generation's Jamal Mashburn. 

5. Scottie Barnes - Hybrid Post - What I love about Barnes is he's the best player in this draft outside of Cade but shooting is critical and while he says he's a much better shooter than he showed, I don't see it on tape. I think he's years away and I hope he's not MKG. That said, he's a lot like Scottie Pippen mixed with Lou Dort. Shooting is why he's 6th on most boards but honestly, he should be 2nd. He just that damn good at basketball but finding the right mix will be hard. 

6. Jalen Suggs - Combo Guard - He reminds me so much of a bigger, more explosive Fred VanVleet but a much better passer like Lonzo Ball. He fits a prototype that's the 2nd least valuable for PGs, more valuable than 3&D which is the least valuable. Playmaking PGs who have elite scoring chops are the most valuable. 2nd and right there is the hybrid guard like Steph and Lillard. While impact wise, CG is extremely impactful metric wise, they aren't the ideal like they are with wings. Suggs is a tad limited in the half court and that's a major issue projecting long term and why he is 6th on my list.

7-32 can vary deeply. 

7. Davion Mitchell - Mitchell is the best perimeter defender who has scoring chops. - Combo Guard

8. Josh Giddey - Point Guard - Some will compare him to Rubio but his shot is a lot more functional and his defense isn't as good. Both are elite off. rebounders for PGs but Giddey is a generational defensive rebounder. Giddey is to LaMelo Ball as Sharife Cooper is to Trae Young as a prospect. That said, people will prefer Giddey more as some prefer Melo more as a prospect than Young. 

9. Franz Wagner - Unicorn - Dual Forward - Lamar Odom is the name that comes up and rightfully so. He has such a unique game that's hard to find in the NBA ever. Odom is the closest comp. 

10. James Bouknight - Shooting Guard - What makes Bouknight so unique is his skill and talent is hard to find for a SG. The player he reminds me of is Kevin Martin if Martin had a clean shooting form but not quite as crafty. I do think he's more of a scorer like Martin than anything more but his wingspan should help in shot contest. While Bouknight potential as a scorer is as high as Cam Thomas. Cam's defense is terrible and the reason he projects as a 6th man. Bouknight defense is decent. Likely capping in the NBA as decent so he's more usable as a starter. 

 

Others - 

Moses Moody
6-6    205    Small Forward    Arkansas    Fr.
Raw Glen Rice

Ziaire Williams
6-8    185    SB    Stanford    Fr.
Rashard Lewis, once he gets his man weight. 

Keon Johnson
6-5    185    CG    Tennessee    Fr.
Raw Latrell Sprewell 

Kai Jones
6-11    220    C    Texas    So.
Jaxson Hayes

Corey Kispert
6-7    220    SG/SF    Gonzaga    Sr.
Joe Harris

    
Jalen Johnson
6-9    220    HP    Duke    Fr.
T.J. Warren, more playmaking and rebounding, less scoring

Josh Christopher
6-4    215    CG    Arizona St.    Fr.
Raw Norman Powell with more upside 

Usman Garuba
6-8    230    PF with potential to be SB    Real Madrid    2002
Serge Ibaka

    
Nah'Shon Hyland
6-3    175    CG   VCU    So.
Jordan Clarkson, I do think Hyland is a more natural scorer within the offense coming in than Jordan was. 

Cameron Thomas
6-4    210    SG    LSU    Fr.
Marcus Thornton with even better shooting

    
Miles McBride
6-2    200    PG    West Virginia    So.
Less athletic Eric Bledsoe but a better Basketball player overall as a prospect. 

Jaden Springer
6-4    205    SG    Tennessee    Fr.
Not sure of a comp but he's a pretty damn good defender who has some offensive chops. Role player long term. 

Ayo Dosunmu
6-5    195    CG    Illinois    Jr.
Delon Wright is the perfect comp for Ayo to me. 

Tre Mann
6-5    190    CG    Florida    So.
Spencer Dinwiddle

Charles Bassey
6-11    235    HP    Western Kentucky    Jr.
Center sized Nathan Knight

Trey Murphy
6-9    205    SF/PF    Virginia    Jr.
DarMarr Johnson

    
Joel Ayayi
6-5    180    CG    Gonzaga    Jr.
NAW

Chris Duarte
6-6    190    CG    Oregon    Sr.
Larger John Starks

Greg Brown
6-9    205    SF/PF    Texas    Fr.
Stromile Swift

Jared Butler
6-3    195    PG/SG    Baylor    Jr.
I don't have a comp for him but he's a really good PG prospect who fits the modern NBA. Athleticism is a major issue for Butler as well as health. A player that comes to mind for Butler is Brunson. 

Isaiah Jackson
6-10    205    HP    Kentucky    Fr.
Nicolas Claxton, not quite his ability to get deflections, he is more of a rim protect and rim runner. Larry Sanders also comes to mind. 

Marcus Bagley
6-8    215    SF    Arizona St.    Fr.
Raw, more explosive, bigger, taller, Josh Richardson
    
Sharife Cooper
6-1    180    PG    Auburn    Fr.
Raw, poor man's Trae Young, even at his best, he will be 90% of Trae. That's still a quality starting PG. Brandon Jennings, more raw, better finisher.

Alperen Sengun
6-9    240    C    Besiktas    2002
Enes Kanter with more versatility on offense. Defensively, Memo Okur 

Jericho Sims
6-10    245    C    Texas    Sr.
JaVale McGee, not as skilled but plays more to his strengths. 

Isaiah Todd
6-10    210    SB  - G-League    Fr.
Raw Robert Horry

Ariel Hukporti
7-0    245    C    Nevezis    2002
Who really has tremendous upside even if his floor is low. Not saying he's a future all star, it wouldn't shock if he did. He's the Poku of this draft. 

Kessler Edwards
6-8    215    SF    Pepperdine    Jr.
Poor man's Klay Thompson, he's a lot like Klay but not the athlete or the shooter Klay was as a project. 90% Klay is what I expect long term. 

Neemias Queta
7-0    245    C    Utah State    Jr.
Vlade Divac lite

 

23 - MJ Walker 6-5, 215 Shooting Guard

He's the prototype for the SG 3&D type. He does everything at the college level very well but nothing elite or excellent. I do think he's closer to undrafted than 2nd rounder but he's someone that will appeal to a lot of teams as a two way contract or UDFA. 

10 - JT Thor 6-10, 205 SB 

Raw Aminu with more upside. 

23 - Scottie Lewis 6-5, 190 Shooting Guard/Small Forward

Unique player who doesn't fit a prototype for the NBA. He's an interesting prospect. UDFA for sure or late 2nd round pick. 

Quentin Grimes 6-5, 205 CG

Josh Hart. He should be a top 45 pick. 

Stock Up: 

I am moving Cooper up to #7 ahead of Mitchell. After new finding, he's extremely comparable to freshman Allen Iverson. AI has the edge defensive by a massive gap but Cooper as a playmaker. 

 

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=sharife-cooper--allen-iverson--kemba-walker--trae-young

 

Soph AI - #1 overall pick - http://www.tankathon.com/players/allen-iverson

Freshman AI - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/allen-iverson-1.html

Freshman Coop - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/sharife-cooper-1.html

 

Coop is too elite offensively not to be a top 10 pick. He might not be a poor man's Trae Young after all. He might just be the next interaction of Iverson. I would be shocked if we had a shot to take him at 19. I honestly think he will be gone by 12 or 13 overall. 

Cam Thomas - I've been against Thomas because he's locked into an elite off the bench scorer with limited playmaking but it's so hard to find an elite scorer with high BBIQ and high end shot variance like Thomas. He's not the playmaker that Tyler Herro is but he's a better scorer as a prospect. 

Stock down -

Tre Mann - Jordan Crawford, less size and not as talented but a much better PnR playmaker. Both are scorers and tough shot makers. Not sure of Mann's role in the NBA. 

Corey Kispert - Nothing he did wrong. He's a lot more polished version of Joe Harris who's NBA ready but it's hard to say this is worth a lottery pick seeing how useless Harris was in the playoffs. You got to have a lot more defense if you want success in the playoffs. Moved to the 16-24 range for me. 

 

 

1. Cade 

2. Green 

3. Mobley

4. Kuminga

5. Scottie Barnes

6. Jalen Suggs

7. Sharife Cooper

8. Davion Mitchell

9. Josh Giddey

10. Franz Wagner

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[marco102]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Stock Up: 

I am moving Cooper up to #7 ahead of Mitchell. After new finding, he's extremely comparable to freshman Allen Iverson. AI has the edge defensive by a massive gap but Cooper as a playmaker. 

 

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=sharife-cooper--allen-iverson--kemba-walker--trae-young

 

Soph AI - #1 overall pick - http://www.tankathon.com/players/allen-iverson

Freshman AI - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/allen-iverson-1.html

Freshman Coop - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/sharife-cooper-1.html

 

Coop is too elite offensively not to be a top 10 pick. He might not be a poor man's Trae Young after all. He might just be the next interaction of Iverson. I would be shocked if we had a shot to take him at 19. I honestly think he will be gone by 12 or 13 overall. 

Cam Thomas - I've been against Thomas because he's locked into an elite off the bench scorer with limited playmaking but it's so hard to find an elite scorer with high BBIQ and high end shot variance like Thomas. He's not the playmaker that Tyler Herro is but he's a better scorer as a prospect. 

Stock down -

Tre Mann - Jordan Crawford, less size and not as talented but a much better PnR playmaker. Both are scorers and tough shot makers. Not sure of Mann's role in the NBA. 

1. Cade 

2. Green 

3. Mobley

4. Kuminga

5. Scottie Barnes

6. Jalen Suggs

7. Sharife Cooper

8. Davion Mitchell

9. Josh Giddey

10. Franz Wagner

 

Sharifer Cooper - His shot scares the crap out of me.  It's one of the worst shots I've seen. If he was making it, he'd be a sure fire lottery talent.  If a team thinks they can fix his shot, then he is a lottery talent. I'm just way too afraid it won't be fixed.  

Cam Thomas - I believe he is late lottery to early 20's.  The kid has true scoring ability.  The Knicks or Sixers should be very interested in him. 

Tre Mann - I'm assuming you are referring to his wingspan? He's 6'3.25 w/o shoes and that's up from a reported 6'2" in prior years.  He's a good size for a backup combo guard.  I see a lot more translatable things in his game than Sharife's.  Sharife's passing is light years ahead of Tre's, but Tre's shooting is light year's ahead of Shairfe's.   For me, it depends on what a team wants.  I think Tre would be a better fit for the Hawks because he can score when the second unit needs scoring and he's a good pick and roll passer.  He has Tre's range and float game and that would be great for the backup.  I also think Bogi and Kevin will take some of the playmaking responsibilities with the second unit too.  I've also become higher on Jared Butler, Bones, and Jared Springer lately.

I'm probably crazy, but I think Green has the potential to be a number 1 on a playoff team. I don't see that with Cade. I think he's very good and has star role player potential.  Maybe that sounds rough, but I think Cade is very very good at everything, but won't be great at one thing. I reserve the right to retract this when Cade comes in and lights the league on fire.  

[NBASupes]

NBASupes Mock - 2021 FIRST ROUND

1. Detroit - Cade, no brainer. HOU is making internal waves but we won't know till draft night
2. Houston - Jalen Green, highest ceiling in this draft. 
3. Cleveland - Evan Mobley, high ceiling that's realistic. 
4. Toronto - Jalen Suggs, very high floor, high ceiling
5. Orlando - Scottie Barnes, best #3 option in this draft, a no brainer. 
6. Oklahoma City -  James Bouknight, best SG after Green. 
7. Golden State (from Minnesota) - Kuminga, #1 option potential. GS is just drafting the highest ceiling, lowest floor guys if taken for the 2nd straight year. 
8. Orlando (from Chicago) - Moody, not my favorite prospect but he has + FTA/3PA/Proj3P% which is great when you add his 7+ wingspan but his assists is really low and it's legit low. Not just low due to style of team offense like Thomas from LSU. Could be stat stud but impact snub. 
9. Sacramento - Franz Wagner, the closest player to Lamar Odom since Odom. 
10. New Orleans - Corey Kispert, this one was tough for me, Mitchell and Cooper are my top guys but they don't fit NO style of play. I personally know they are looking for a young vet at this spot so it could go any direction. 
11. Charlotte - Alperen Sengün, while this pick could be moved to a team like Indy, if it sticks, I think they will take Sengun. 
12. San Antonio - Usman Garuba, Spurs can do about anything. They can trade Murray + pick to move up with GS and take Kuminga. They got options. I think they stick and take Usman. 
13. Indiana - Sharife Cooper, I actually think his range starts from 7-24 but he's not gonna wait long. Like Patrick Williams, he's gonna be a guy who just shoots up on draft night. His 3rd year could be a 25/10/5 season. That's Morant level and a tad short on Trae. His defense is projected to be as bad as Trae if not worse but he's extremely quick, he should be better on that end. He has the highest ceiling outside of the big 3 Green in this draft (Mobley, Green, Cunningham). I honestly think, this is LP's f you to Trae. I know LP will be gunning for Trae forever and likewise. He thinks Trae screwed him and the coaches think so as well. 
14. Golden State - Davion Mitchell, within range for him. I just think GS wants a guard who can play with Curry and Klay. 
15. Washington - Keon Johnson, while there are really good options here, I think Johnson takes the cake for Tommy who thinks outside of the box. I know getting a vet PF or C like Jerami Grant or Myles Turner appeals to WAS who's trying to contend in the east. 
16. Oklahoma City (from Boston) - Kai Jones, I am not sure what OKC will do. 
17. Memphis - Chris Duarte, he fits what they do perfectly. 
18. Oklahoma City (from Miami via the LA Clippers, Philadelphia, and Phoenix) - Josh Giddey, I think Giddey has a great chance of going 15th overall as well but he might slide to 18. Value is too good here and he fits next to their core. 
19. New York - Jared Butler, I actually think Giddey or Cooper is preferred but they will be gone. Knowing Atlanta is looking at Butler, it makes sense to take Butler when you badly need a PG. 
20. Atlanta - Cam Thomas, not my favorite prospect but he's moved up the board as he's a legit elite scoring prospect like Green but doesn't create for others or play any defense. Generally, you can find guys like him in the 2nd round but he's NBA ready and freshman, that's extremely hard to find making his bust potential a lot less but he compares to Dejuan Wagner. 
21. New York (from Dallas) - Ziaire Williams, Potential. 
22. Los Angeles Lakers - Jaden Springer, LAL would jump for joy if he fell to 22. His fit with Bron and gang is natural and perfect. 
23. Houston (from Portland) - Jalen Johnson, his talent says he should be a top 10 pick but his personality is why he will slide like Kevin Porter Jr. 
24. Houston (from Milwaukee) - JEREMIAH ROBINSON-EARL, I think he fits what they do well. He needs to be a better shooter but the bigger high BBIQ 3&D wing is their thing.
25. LA Clippers - Tre Mann, I don't think the draft played into their hands but if Mann is available at 25, I think they are happy with that. DayRon Sharpe is another option. 
26. Denver -  Nah'Shon Hyland, I actually think he has a shot to be drafted higher like 19 or 20. It's all about how the team rates them.  
27. Brooklyn - Ayo Dosunmu - Pretty sure they rather Mann over Ayo but he's the best available PG on the board. 
28. Philadelphia - Trey Murphy III- Another player who can go higher than this slot. 
29. Phoenix - Joshua Primo, PHX tend to go floor over ceiling but with a lack of PT, they might go upside at 29. Josh Christopher is an option.
30. Utah -Duece McBride, Eric Bledsoe like, better as a prospect, not quite the ceiling.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

Sharifer Cooper - His shot scares the crap out of me.  It's one of the worst shots I've seen. If he was making it, he'd be a sure fire lottery talent.  If a team thinks they can fix his shot, then he is a lottery talent. I'm just way too afraid it won't be fixed.  

Cam Thomas - I believe he is late lottery to early 20's.  The kid has true scoring ability.  The Knicks or Sixers should be very interested in him. 

Tre Mann - I'm assuming you are referring to his wingspan? He's 6'3.25 w/o shoes and that's up from a reported 6'2" in prior years.  He's a good size for a backup combo guard.  I see a lot more translatable things in his game than Sharife's.  Sharife's passing is light years ahead of Tre's, but Tre's shooting is light year's ahead of Shairfe's.   For me, it depends on what a team wants.  I think Tre would be a better fit for the Hawks because he can score when the second unit needs scoring and he's a good pick and roll passer.  He has Tre's range and float game and that would be great for the backup.  I also think Bogi and Kevin will take some of the playmaking responsibilities with the second unit too.  I've also become higher on Jared Butler, Bones, and Jared Springer lately.

I'm probably crazy, but I think Green has the potential to be a number 1 on a playoff team. I don't see that with Cade. I think he's very good and has star role player potential.  Maybe that sounds rough, but I think Cade is very very good at everything, but won't be great at one thing. I reserve the right to retract this when Cade comes in and lights the league on fire.  

I didn't say a word about Tre's wingspan or height. I was comparing him as a player to Jordan Crawford. That's who his metrics believe he's most like and honestly, I see it as well. There is really nothing about him that's outstanding other than tough shot making skills. That's not really all that valuable unless you can get to the line a lot like Thomas, Cooper, and Lou Williams. Mann is kinda limited but like Jordan, he's a bucket who can put up stats. 

Cam is as legit as they come as a scorer. He's a better scorer as a prospect than Herro but his limitations and worse. 

Cooper upside is out of this world. Even if he's mainly a C&S guard, his ability to get to any spot like Trae but he can get to the line better than Trae is going to make him a star. He will have to shoot it better but his metrics aren't much different than Iverson as a freshman. Both are special scorers and Cooper scored like crazy in HS as well. I honestly think passing on Cooper after 10 is a massive mistake for any team. 

Tre isn't a light-years better shooter than Cooper. They literally have the same FT%. The difference is Cooper is mainly a spot-up shooter who's mainly a C&S because he's struggles at shooting off the dribble outside of floaters and layups. Tre can shoot high variance shots from range but the issue with Tre is he can't get to any spots he wants. He's like Jordan, he needs a screen for everything and doesn't have the ability to draw fouls at a high level. He's just like Jordan, he's a bucket but a limited bucket. Both are so-so passers who can pass out of the PnR but Mann is better at it than Crawford was. 

I'll be honest with you, I wouldn't draft Mann in the top 23. He's in the same range with Ayo, Duece, and Hyland. These are guys who could become good backup PGs in time. If Giddey, Cooper, Butler, Thomas, or Mitchell is available, run to the podium and take them instead. All of them can be elite backups and Giddey, Cooper, and Mitchell can be legit starters sooner than later. 

24-34 is the range I would look at Mann. His metrics don't look good. His tape is nice but so was Jordan Crawford's. 

It's hard to say for me. I see Cade like a lesser Luka who can really shoot. He's kinda like Cam Reddish but like, he actually improves his shooting consistently. He can defend, he can shoot, he's not explosive at all, but man, he can really pass it like Luka. I think his passing is legit. 

 

 

Green is special. Defensively, he flashes a lot of Avery Bradley with more height and similar length. Offensively, he's insane athletically. I just don't see the foul drawing from Green. Last guy like him that became a star was Devin Booker. That might be the same case considering his tools that he has. I can see him being a special superstar as well. To me, the top 3 is the top 3. After that, it's risky. Barnes is safe to me. A superstar #3 option is extremely hard to find as a SF. Mikal Bridges, De'Andre Hunter, Al Horford (big) is just the name of few. 

[NBASupes]

I used to be cool with Mann but count me out. Too many red flags. 

[marco102]

24 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I used to be cool with Mann but count me out. Too many red flags. 

Same with me with Cooper.  It'll be interesting to see how both guys turn out.  No lie, Cooper probably has a higher ceiling if he can figure out how to shoot and his free throw rate transfers, but to me Tre's floor is much much higher when considering his size, shooting ability and I believe he will have a bigger impact next season. 

We can all say wow this guy may be the next Trae Young, but Trae is literally generational.   I don't see that with Cooper. His passing is, but Trae's shooting ability and foul drawing is what makes him special.   Also, I believe Coopers spot up shooting was horrible this season too. Although his free throw rate and shooting were excellent, his shot is broken with bigger faster players, I don't see him being that great in the NBA.  I also don't see his defense being much better than Trae's.

I like Tre, Butler, Bones, Springer, and Cooper for the 20th pick if we are going guard. 

Ziaire Williams if he's there and we are going wing. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by marco102

[marco102]

41 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It's hard to say for me. I see Cade like a lesser Luka who can really shoot. He's kinda like Cam Reddish but like, he actually improves his shooting consistently. He can defend, he can shoot, he's not explosive at all, but man, he can really pass it like Luka. I think his passing is legit. 

 

Green is special. Defensively, he flashes a lot of Avery Bradley with more height and similar length. Offensively, he's insane athletically. I just don't see the foul drawing from Green. Last guy like him that became a star was Devin Booker. That might be the same case considering his tools that he has. I can see him being a special superstar as well. To me, the top 3 is the top 3. After that, it's risky. Barnes is safe to me. A superstar #3 option is extremely hard to find as a SF. Mikal Bridges, De'Andre Hunter, Al Horford (big) is just the name of few. 

I should add I agree with your analysis here.  I think Cade will be really good, but probably will be better suited as a number 2 do it all on a championship squad.  

Green to me is just like wow!  The ability to score is off the charts. I think once he grows into his body, he'll get to the line a little more.  I think he has the most upside in this draft. 

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Same with me with Cooper.  It'll be interesting to see how both guys turn out.  No lie, Cooper probably has a higher ceiling if he can figure out how to shoot and his free throw rate transfers, but to me Tre's floor is much much higher when considering his size, shooting ability and I believe he will have a bigger impact next season. 

We can all say wow this guy may be the next Trae Young, but Trae is literally generational.   I don't see that with Cooper. His passing is, but Trae's shooting ability and foul drawing is what makes him special.   Also, I believe Coopers spot up shooting was horrible this season too. Although his free throw rate and shooting were excellent, his shot is broken with bigger faster players, I don't see him being that great in the NBA.  I also don't see his defense being much better than Trae's.

I like Tre, Butler, Bones, and Springer for the 20th pick if we are going guard. 

Ziaire Williams if he's there and we are going wing. 

Cooper is going to be a star in this league. What are his red flags? 

Elite ball handler

Elite quickness

Elite playmaker

Elite at drawing fouls, if he played a full schedule, he would have nearly surpassed Iverson's mark with his best for a guard ever. 

Like Trae, he can get to any spot at will. 

 

I don't see any red flags preventing him from becoming a star in this league. Not one. 

I didn't say he's the next Trae Young. Trae is a four level scorer. What Cooper is the next iteration of Iverson like Trae was one of them as well. He's gonna struggle in year 1, that's unquestionable but his ceiling is off the charts. 

 

Both of them got lower end floors. Tre is going to have to adjust to the defending NBA PGs and scoring against NBA level defenses. With Tre, you hope by the 2nd half of the season he can figure it out if he gets the mins which is unlikely considering he's a guy that's going be drafted after the lottery and likely on a team that's good unless it's the Rockets or Thunder. It's gonna be tough for either to see mins as a rookie. It's the eyar 2 for both. With Tre, you want to see 9/3/3 in 16 mins. With Coop, you want to see 9/6/3 in 16 mins but the difference is, a team could give Coop 33 mins and want 18/9/4 or 20/9/4. No one is going to give that to Mann, doesn't do enough to make the team better. I wonder what his role is going to be in the NBA. I really do. 

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I should add I agree with your analysis here.  I think Cade will be really good, but probably will be better suited as a number 2 do it all on a championship squad.  

Green to me is just like wow!  The ability to score is off the charts. I think once he grows into his body, he'll get to the line a little more.  I think he has the most upside in this draft. 

Cade can be a #1 but it's not going to be enough. He's going to need a lot more like most guys who aren't LeBron. 

[marco102]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Cooper is going to be a star in this league. What are his red flags? 

Elite ball handler

Elite quickness

Elite playmaker

Elite at drawing fouls, if he played a full schedule, he would have nearly surpassed Iverson's mark with his best for a guard ever. 

Like Trae, he can get to any spot at will. 

 

I don't see any red flags preventing him from becoming a star in this league. Not one. 

I didn't say he's the next Trae Young. Trae is a four level scorer. What Cooper is the next iteration of Iverson like Trae was one of them as well. He's gonna struggle in year 1, that's unquestionable but his ceiling is off the charts. 

 

Both of them got lower end floors. Tre is going to have to adjust to the defending NBA PGs and scoring against NBA level defenses. With Tre, you hope by the 2nd half of the season he can figure it out if he gets the mins which is unlikely considering he's a guy that's going be drafted after the lottery and likely on a team that's good unless it's the Rockets or Thunder. It's gonna be tough for either to see mins as a rookie. It's the eyar 2 for both. With Tre, you want to see 9/3/3 in 16 mins. With Coop, you want to see 9/6/3 in 16 mins but the difference is, a team could give Coop 33 mins and want 18/9/4 or 20/9/4. No one is going to give that to Mann, doesn't do enough to make the team better. I wonder what his role is going to be in the NBA. I really do. 

Cooper's biggest red flag is his shooting and form.  I don't believe he will get to the rim in the NBA and his floater isn't that good. I mean I like the kid and if he puts it all together he does have star potential. 

I only look at draft picks for what the Hawks need.  To me, Tre, Butler, Springer, and Bones fit the bill better for what we need. Cooper will probably take more time, but if he hits you're right he could be one of the most dynamic guards in the league.  I just think it will take him a while to adjust.  The passing will probably translate right away, but everything else will take a little more time.

20/9/4 is a better rookie season than Trae Young and Ja Morant. I don't see that happening, but would be happy for him if it did and then sad the Hawks didn't draft him.

Edited July 18, 2021 by marco102

[NBASupes]

10 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Cooper's biggest red flag is his shooting and form.  I don't believe he will get to the rim in the NBA and his floater isn't that good. I mean I like the kid and if he puts it all together he does have star potential. 

I only look at draft picks for what the Hawks need.  To me, Tre, Butler, Springer, and Bones fit the bill better for what we need. Cooper will probably take more time, but if he hits you're right he could be one of the most dynamic guards in the league.  I just think it will take him a while to adjust.  The passing will probably translate right away, but everything else will take a little more time.

20/9/4 is a better rookie season than Trae Young and Ja Morant. I don't see that happening, but would be happy for him if it did and then sad the Hawks didn't draft him.

I completely disagree with the bolded and I don't believe his shooting is that bad. I don't even dislike his form, I prefer he has a quicker setup but his form is fine. His feet are always set. The issue with Cooper is off the dribble shooting, that's where he's bad and he didn't even bother to do it at his pro day. LOL! 

I never said he would do that as a rookie at all. Are you reading my posts? 

 

[kg01]

Soupes, tell me what you think about my GT guys.  I think both can have a pro career, just not sure it'll be at the NBA level.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Soupes, tell me what you think about my GT guys.  I think both can have a pro career, just not sure it'll be at the NBA level.

I like Jose a lot. Not a fit for the Hawks but he fits what a lot of teams are looking for from a backup. That's Facundo Campazzo prototype. High BBIQ, tremendous defensive attributes, grinder, has enough offensive ability to stay on the court and a leader on and off the floor. He might not get picked but he's a player a lot of teams will covet. 

As for Moses. I've liken him Nathan Knight. Like Nathan, he's from the school of David West. Obviously, both lack the length that West had that was a center like which is why they are both likely 2-way guys who can develop into 8th or 9th men down the road as they come better shooters. Both pretty much do the same things on the court. With Wright, we know his skill-set coming into the NBA more than we knew for Knight. He's someone that should be grabbed ASAP as a two way guy. I would like to see him in Dallas. 

Jose is more valuable. Campazzo has made an imprint on the game. I can see a team like Philly really wanting Jose as a two-way guy. 

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I am moving Cooper up to #7 ahead of Mitchell.

I’m not. Barnes and Mitchell will be better than Mobley i think as well in the long run. I gotta admit I just started studying but mostly eye test.

[RandomFan]

Most "eggspurts" consider Cade and Mobley head and shoulders the top two above everyone else. Not saying I agree, just what most of them are putting out there. 

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by RandomFan

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Most "eggspurts" consider Cade and Mobley head and shoulders the top two above everyone else. Not saying I agree, just what most of them are putting out there. 

 

Analytically, they are the top prospects with Sengun

[EazyRoc]

Reading about Evan Mobley…why can’t cats like this be available at 3 when we draft ? Don’t get it twisted..I have and always will support Trae. However, you can’t read about this guy and not envision everything the NBA hoped Giannis would develop into.

[thecampster]

6 hours ago, RandomFan said:

Most "eggspurts" consider Cade and Mobley head and shoulders the top two above everyone else. Not saying I agree, just what most of them are putting out there. 

 

Imagine for a minute that Cam Reddish stayed in school for 2 more years and was coming out this year. Are Cade and Mobley still consensus number 1s?

Also imagine Okongwu stayed in 1 more year. Would Cade and Mobley still be consensus 1/2.

I don't see the draft as weak, just not top heavy like past drafts. I see a lot of value, a lot of NBA players. I don't see Trae, Luka, Ayton.

Edited July 18, 2021 by thecampster

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, EazyRoc said:

Reading about Evan Mobley…why can’t cats like this be available at 3 when we draft ? Don’t get it twisted..I have and always will support Trae. However, you can’t read about this guy and not envision everything the NBA hoped Giannis would develop into.

Pau Gasol was available for us, we traded him on draft night for SAR like idiots