The official NBASupes 2021 NBA Draft thread

[kg01]

12 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

 

So just so I understand you correctly, you want to throw some Cockburn at Lopez to keep him from abusing yo us?

This guy gets it.

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

This guy gets it.

Ps My current rank on squawk… I’m a mentor.  I think they meant TORmentor but I’ll take it! 

[sturt]

On 5/19/2021 at 10:54 AM, sturt said:

Me, I think it's obvious that our sweet spot for bringing an NBA championship to ATL is 2021-22 or 2022-23.

But that also means that, if things go as we're hoping, there's going to necessarily be some talent purge in the 2023 off-season, or even assuming Ressler is willing to foot a humongous tax bill, 2024 at the latest.

So, to optimize our assets to help us achieve something special in the near future, this off-season's pick is better delayed since... just in terms of probabilities... at #19 or worse, it's not likely going to deliver anything significant to the 2021-22 effort, and only slightly more likely for the 2022-23 effort.

Right?

"That's well-taken, but that player could be contributing something substantial by the time of that purge you anticipate, and at a time when rookie scale contract talent will be important to have."

But I want to have my cake and eat it, too.... that's my goal... I go into the draft proactively seeking that end... I mean, like who wants cake just to sit and stare at? (... yes, you're on to me, my real name is Jerry and I used to have a fairly popular TV show).

Granted, one cannot just snap their fingers and make what they want appear out of nowhere.

But there is precedent for a team seizing on another team's prizing some draftee so much that they're willing to surrender (1) a current asset plus (2) a future #1 for the opportunity to draft someone they prize. So, I get something that plausibly could help me in the next two years plus I get two first round picks in some future year (ie, the one we have anyhow, plus the other team's).

That's what I want.

The most likely partners in such a scenario are teams that have no 2021 pick at all, so I start there. But every team conceivably holds some potential to dance with us, in consideration of what asset they currently can offer and the conditions (or lack thereof) they're willing to concede on that future #1.

Which teams, then, on the surface, seem like they hold the best potential for such a deal?

Would be very intrigued to read others' speculation/imagination to that question... and it goes w/o saying, all the more intrigued to read soon enough any rumors being overheard that might inform the question somehow, directly or indirectly.

Reading this weekend that, as suspected, Chicago is going to be going strong to obtain a FRP. Their deal with ORL and the Septien rule complicate getting a FRP in return, though. Alternative would be multiple FRP flips maybe, or just being content to wait and take their 2025--which would actually probably time out quite nicely for our purposes.

[Carmine]

I haven't really looked into prospects outside of the top 4. Like Supes I also like Cooper as a backup point. On the other hand I'm not a fan of Tre Mann in Atlanta. For what he offers i'd much rather have Bouknight.

Realistically though, Bouknight may not be there at 20 and his stock can go higher with workouts.

At #20, I like Cooper or the Chris Duarte. He's a little old for a rookie at 24 but were trying to win & I can't see us picking a project like Kai Jones or Zaire Smith this year. I like Duarte to replace Solomon Hill and give us some much needed depth at the wing position.

[Spud2nique]

I’m gonna guess we are trading our pick this year which is why I didn’t really invest in this 2021 draft at all. I’d be surprised if we walk away with a first round player. Our core is already young it’s time for trades and vets.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I’m gonna guess we are trading our pick this year which is why I didn’t really invest in this 2021 draft at all. I’d be surprised if we walk away with a first round player. Our core is already young it’s time for trades and vets.

I've been trying to find a Capela like trade - young player on a 3 year deal that a team is trying to move to reduce salary - preferable a PG.

With how TS operates, I don't see him trading that pick for a 1 year rental, although it could be a trade and extend though.

[Spud2nique]

22 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I've been trying to find a Capela like trade - young player on a 3 year deal that a team is trying to move to reduce salary - preferable a PG.

 

Aaron Holiday. He gets 3.9 mill in 2021-2022 and a qualifying for 5.8 mill for 2022-23. 
 

Any way to pry him from the Pacers?

[JayBirdHawk]

14 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Aaron Holiday. He gets 3.9 mill in 2021-2022 and a qualifying for 5.8 mill for 2022-23. 
 

Any way to pry him from the Pacers?

Pick #20 but I don't know if Indy is looking for picks. Holiday will also be a RFA next offseason so we have to be prepared to pay him.

I guess If Indy is looking to trade up from #13, they can use #20 added.

[NBASupes]

I don't know if trading 20 is good when we need someone with 4 years for cheap

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Aaron Holiday. He gets 3.9 mill in 2021-2022 and a qualifying for 5.8 mill for 2022-23. 
 

Any way to pry him from the Pacers?

 

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Pick #20 but I don't know if Indy is looking for picks. Holiday will also be a RFA next offseason so we have to be prepared to pay him.

I guess If Indy is looking to trade up from #13, they can use #20 added.

Rethinking this #20 is too high for him and Indy is already over the cap, they'll be looking to shed salary. So, in this deal you finally get your boy:

Aaron Holiday and Jeremy Lamb for Dunn and a 2nd. 

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

So, in this deal you finally get your boy:

Aaron Holiday and Jeremy Lamb

You remembered… 

My boiiiii, my baby Lamb  

[ATLHawks3]

This is a really deep draft. The options at 20 are tremendous. Here's another guy I think we should have serious eyes on.

 

 

6'3 Combo Guard with a 6'9 wingspan. He can shoot and doesn't lack confidence.

[sturt]

To no one in particular... this statement by Hollinger is consistent with what I've read elsewhere...

 

"From my perspective, this draft is also a bit different in terms of how its depth shakes out. I’d be really happy to have a pick in the top nine, or something in the mid-20s. However, the depth of this group sort of craters after the top nine picks, leaving a lot of speculative-type selections in the teens, or non-speculative selections on near-certain role players."

 

https://theathletic.com/2666193/2021/06/22/top-20-nba-draft-prospects-for-2021-cade-cunningham-ranks-no-1-but-not-by-much/

 

[JayBirdHawk]

Future Hawks Picks: Incoming and Outgoing

Team	Incoming	Outgoing
	Atlanta Hawks	2021 second round draft pick from Miami Miami's 2021 2nd round pick to Atlanta (via Portland to Sacramento) [Miami-Portland, 2/18/2016; Portland-Sacramento, 6/21/2018; Atlanta-Sacramento, 2/6/2020] 2022 first round draft pick from Oklahoma City Oklahoma City's 2022 1st round pick to Atlanta protected for selections 1-14; if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Oklahoma City will instead convey its 2024 2nd round pick and 2025 2nd round pick to Atlanta [Atlanta-Oklahoma City-Philadelphia, 7/25/2018] 2023 second round draft pick from Charlotte or Brooklyn (second most favorable of these and Atlanta, swap, Atlanta outgoing to Philadelphia or Brooklyn) Philadelphia will receive the most favorable of Atlanta's 2023 2nd round pick, Charlotte's 2023 2nd round pick and Brooklyn's 2023 2nd round pick and Atlanta will receive the second most favorable and Brooklyn will receive the least favorable of the three (via Atlanta's right to swap Atlanta or Charlotte for Brooklyn) [Atlanta-Charlotte, 6/21/2018; Atlanta-Brooklyn, 7/13/2018; Atlanta-Philadelphia, 7/7/2019] 2023 second round draft pick from New Orleans New Orleans' 2023 2nd round pick to Atlanta protected for selections 31-45 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then New Orleans' obligation to Atlanta will be extinguished) [Atlanta-New Orleans, 7/7/2019] 2023 second round draft pick from Portland Portland's 2023 2nd round pick to Atlanta (via Cleveland to Detroit to L.A. Clippers) [Cleveland-Portland, 2/4/2019; Cleveland-Detroit, 6/26/2019; Brooklyn-Detroit-L.A. Clippers, 11/19/2020; Atlanta-L.A. Clippers, 3/25/2021] 2024 second round draft pick from Miami Miami's 2024 2nd round pick to Atlanta protected for selections 31-50 and 56-60 or to New York (via Cleveland to Detroit to Philadelphia) protected for selections 31-55 (Miami's obligation(s) to Atlanta and/or New York will thereafter be extinguished) [Cleveland-Miami, 2/8/2018; Atlanta-Miami, 6/19/2019; Cleveland-Detroit, 6/26/2019; Detroit-Philadelphia, 7/7/2019; New York-Oklahoma City-Philadelphia, 3/25/2021] 2025 second round draft pick from Brooklyn Brooklyn's 2025 2nd round pick to Atlanta [Atlanta-Brooklyn, 7/13/2018] 2026 second round draft pick from Golden State Golden State's 2026 2nd round pick to Atlanta [Atlanta-Golden State, 7/8/2019] 2027 second round draft pick from L.A. Clippers L.A. Clippers' 2027 2nd round pick to Atlanta [Atlanta-L.A. Clippers, 3/25/2021]	2021 second round draft pick to Brooklyn Atlanta's 2021 2nd round pick to Brooklyn [Atlanta-Brooklyn, 7/6/2019] 2022 second round draft pick to Sacramento Atlanta's 2022 2nd round pick to Sacramento (via L.A. Clippers) protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Atlanta's obligation to Sacramento will be extinguished) [Atlanta-L.A. Clippers, 2/6/2020; L.A. Clippers-Sacramento, 3/22/2021] 2024 second round draft pick to Portland Atlanta's 2024 2nd round pick to Portland protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Atlanta's obligation to Portland will be extinguished) [Atlanta-Portland, 2/6/2020] 2025 second round draft pick to Oklahoma City Atlanta's 2025 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Atlanta's obligation to Oklahoma City will be extinguished) [Atlanta-Oklahoma City, 11/24/20

[NBASupes]

I am pissed as I lost all of my work for RealGM thread but here is the short of it. 

No tier 1 or tier 1.5 prospects. No Zion, Bagley III (Miss) or Ayton and Luka tier 1.5

Six tier 2 guys. Cade slightly higher than the others and higher than Ja or R.J. of previous tier 2s. 

Cade, Barnes, Kuminga, Suggs, Green, and Mobley 

Mobley was compared to Porzingis with Gasol like playmaking. He's more athletic but not at tall. 

Cade was compared to Cam Reddish and Grant Hill. 

Barnes to Scottie Pippen

Kuminga to Jamal Mashburn (two years away)

Suggs to VanVleet and Lonzo Ball

Green to Bradley Beal and Avery Bradley

 

No tier 3 or 3.5 guys this year. 

A lot of tier 4 players - 25 at this moment, could be more when I am done. 

 

Overall, a lot of talent in this class. Moreso guys with higher floors than ceiling this year compared to previous years. 

Guys I really like: 

James Bouknight - 20 ppg scorers in the NBA level are hard to find. He has the modern skills to score effectively in this league. 

Davion Mitchell - People are sleeping on the next Joe Dumars. He's worth a top 10 pick. He's not Donovan but he offers a lot for winning hoops. 
Josh Giddey - I am intrigued with a triple double type of PG who raises the floor of an offense. 

 
Nah'Shon Hyland - Buckets who has some defensive potential is hard to find. Not quite the offensive weapon as IQ, his ability to score and defend is intriguing.   

Tre Mann
6-5    190    PG    Florida    So.

Jared Butler
6-3    195    PG/SG    Baylor    Jr.
 
Sharife Cooper
6-1    180    PG    Auburn    Fr.

I like all three for different reasons. Cooper is the most like Trae Young of any prospect since Young. He's clearly not as good as a scorer or shooter but he close or as good at otherwise. That's intriguing considering how we are building out our roster. Mann is like Dinwiddle. Butler is the best of the three but he has some health questions. 
CharlesBassey
6-11    235    PF/C    Western Kentucky    Jr.
AlperenSengun
6-9    240    C    Besiktas    2002
NeemiasQueta
7-0    245    C    Utah State    Jr.

I like these three centers. I think they can add value in time. Maybe they will be their at 48 but I am not counting on it. 

Trey Murphy
6-9    205    SF/PF    Virginia    Jr.

JT Thor
6-10    205    SF    Auburn    Fr.

These two have a lot of potential. A lot. It's likely both will be 1st rounders as others see it too but if you are looking for wings, these two are interesting. 

Quentin Grimes
6-5    205    SG    Houston    Jr.

MJ Walker
6-5    215    SG    Florida St.    Sr.

My two favorite 2nd round prospects. Both high floor players who can help you right now in the NBA and really can dominate the G-league. 

Chris Smith
6-9    215    SF/PF    UCLA    Sr.  

Chris is my undrafted FA fav this year. He has potential to be a good NBA player. He just needs to continue developing. 

[NBASupes]

 

If I had to rank out my top 10, it would be: 

1. Cade - Prototype - Dual Forward - Most valuable prototype there is if at an exceptionally high level. 

2. Green - Prototype - Shooting Guard - Players with 30ppg potential who can play excellent defense are nearly impossible to find. While he's not Kobe/MJ who can guard 2/3, Green can guard the 1/2 position which is more valuable in the modern NBA. 

3. Mobley - Prototype - Unicorn/Hybrid Post - Unicorns have general failed in the NBA or had short lived success (Odom, Bender, KP, Bamba) due to a lack of position. Stretch bigs have had more success but they had to develop into it like John Collins. Mobley is a tremendous defender who can defend 3-5 and protect the rim and that should earn him minutes but offensively, he's going to have to develop. As of right now, he's a 7' wing and doesn't have the height to score in the post like KP had even with limited post moves. Mobley best trait is he's a good PnR finisher which matters. 

4. Kuminga - Prototype - Hybrid Post - What I like about Kuminga is he's very projectable. He has a smooth shooting stroke which will translate and having a year in a NBA setting will only help him majority in year 2. His talent level is off the charts. He can be a potential 3 level scorer who can score in so many ways potentially. Defensively, he's decent, not great or the potential to be great. He has a great frame and will likely topped out at 235-240 range. He's this generation's Jamal Mashburn. 

5. Scottie Barnes - Hybrid Post - What I love about Barnes is he's the best player in this draft outside of Cade but shooting is critical and while he says he's a much better shooter than he showed, I don't see it on tape. I think he's years away and I hope he's not MKG. That said, he's a lot like Scottie Pippen mixed with Lou Dort. Shooting is why he's 6th on most boards but honestly, he should be 2nd. He just that damn good at basketball but finding the right mix will be hard. 

6. Jalen Suggs - Combo Guard - He reminds me so much of a bigger, more explosive Fred VanVleet but a much better passer like Lonzo Ball. He fits a prototype that's the 2nd least valuable for PGs, more valuable than 3&D which is the least valuable. Playmaking PGs who have elite scoring chops are the most valuable. 2nd and right there is the hybrid guard like Steph and Lillard. While impact wise, CG is extremely impactful metric wise, they aren't the ideal like they are with wings. Suggs is a tad limited in the half court and that's a major issue projecting long term and why he is 6th on my list.

7-32 can vary deeply. 

7. Davion Mitchell - Mitchell is the best perimeter defender who has scoring chops. - Combo Guard

8. Josh Giddey - Point Guard - Some will compare him to Rubio but his shot is a lot more functional and his defense isn't as good. Both are elite off. rebounders for PGs but Giddey is a generational defensive rebounder. Giddey is to LaMelo Ball as Sharife Cooper is to Trae Young as a prospect. That said, people will prefer Giddey more as some prefer Melo more as a prospect than Young. 

9. Franz Wagner - Unicorn - Dual Forward - Lamar Odom is the name that comes up and rightfully so. He has such a unique game that's hard to find in the NBA ever. Odom is the closest comp. 

10. James Bouknight - Shooting Guard - What makes Bouknight so unique is his skill and talent is hard to find for a SG. The player he reminds me of is Kevin Martin if Martin had a clean shooting form but not quite as crafty. I do think he's more of a scorer like Martin than anything more but his wingspan should help in shot contest. While Bouknight potential as a scorer is as high as Cam Thomas. Cam's defense is terrible and the reason he projects as a 6th man. Bouknight defense is decent. Likely capping in the NBA as decent so he's more usable as a starter. 

 

Others - 

Moses Moody
6-6    205    Small Forward    Arkansas    Fr.
Raw Glen Rice

Ziaire Williams
6-8    185    SB    Stanford    Fr.
Rashard Lewis, once he gets his man weight. 

Keon Johnson
6-5    185    CG    Tennessee    Fr.
Raw Latrell Sprewell 

Kai Jones
6-11    220    C    Texas    So.
Jaxson Hayes

Corey Kispert
6-7    220    SG/SF    Gonzaga    Sr.
Joe Harris

    
Jalen Johnson
6-9    220    HP    Duke    Fr.
T.J. Warren, more playmaking and rebounding, less scoring

Josh Christopher
6-4    215    CG    Arizona St.    Fr.
Raw Norman Powell with more upside 

Usman Garuba
6-8    230    PF with potential to be SB    Real Madrid    2002
Serge Ibaka

    
Nah'Shon Hyland
6-3    175    CG   VCU    So.
Jordan Clarkson, I do think Hyland is a more natural scorer within the offense coming in than Jordan was. 

Cameron Thomas
6-4    210    SG    LSU    Fr.
Marcus Thornton with even better shooting

    
MilesMcBride
6-2    200    PG    West Virginia    So.
Less athletic Eric Bledsoe but a better Basketball player overall as a prospect. 

Jaden Springer
6-4    205    SG    Tennessee    Fr.
Not sure of a comp but he's a pretty damn good defender who has some offensive chops. Role player long term. 

Ayo Dosunmu
6-5    195    CG    Illinois    Jr.
Delon Wright is the perfect comp for Ayo to me. 

Tre Mann
6-5    190    CG    Florida    So.
Spencer Dinwiddle

Charles Bassey
6-11    235    HP    Western Kentucky    Jr.
Center sized Nathan Knight

Trey Murphy
6-9    205    SF/PF    Virginia    Jr.
DarMarr Johnson

    
Joel Ayayi
6-5    180    CG    Gonzaga    Jr.
NAW

Chris Duarte
6-6    190    CG    Oregon    Sr.
Larger John Starks

Greg Brown
6-9    205    SF/PF    Texas    Fr.
Stromile Swift

Jared Butler
6-3    195    PG/SG    Baylor    Jr.
I don't have a comp for him but he's a really good PG prospect who fits the modern NBA. Athleticism is a major issue for Butler as well as health. A player that comes to mind for Butler is Brunson. 

Isaiah Jackson
6-10    205    HP    Kentucky    Fr.
Nicolas Claxton, not quite his ability to get deflections, he is more of a rim protect and rim runner. Larry Sanders also comes to mind. 

Marcus Bagley
6-8    215    SF    Arizona St.    Fr.
Raw, more explosive, bigger, taller, Josh Richardson
    
Sharife Cooper
6-1    180    PG    Auburn    Fr.
Raw, poor man's Trae Young, even at his best, he will be 90% of Trae. That's still a quality starting PG. Brandon Jennings, more raw, better finisher.

Alperen Sengun
6-9    240    C    Besiktas    2002
Enes Kanter with more versatility on offense. Defensively, Memo Okur 

Jericho Sims
6-10    245    C    Texas    Sr.
JaVale McGee, not as skilled but plays more to his strengths. 

Isaiah Todd
6-10    210    SB  - G-League    Fr.
Raw Robert Horry

Ariel Hukporti
7-0    245    C    Nevezis    2002
Who really has tremendous upside even if his floor is low. Not saying he's a future all star, it wouldn't shock if he did. He's the Poku of this draft. 

Kessler Edwards
6-8    215    SF    Pepperdine    Jr.
Poor man's Klay Thompson, he's a lot like Klay but not the athlete or the shooter Klay was as a project. 90% Klay is what I expect long term. 

Neemias Queta
7-0    245    C    Utah State    Jr.
Vlade Divac lite

 

23 - MJ Walker 6-5, 215 Shooting Guard

He's the prototype for the SG 3&D type. He does everything at the college level very well but nothing elite or excellent. I do think he's closer to undrafted than 2nd rounder but he's someone that will appeal to a lot of teams as a two way contract or UDFA. 

10 - JT Thor 6-10, 205 SB 

Raw Aminu with more upside. 

23 - Scottie Lewis 6-5, 190 Shooting Guard/Small Forward

Unique player who doesn't fit a prototype for the NBA. He's an interesting prospect. UDFA for sure or late 2nd round pick. 

Quentin Grimes 6-5, 205 CG

Josh Hart. He should be a top 45 pick. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by NBASupes

[warcore]

I'd wanna see us use our #20 on a PG.... McBride/Hyland/Mann/Cooper... all will do just fine. 

Would like our big C with our 2nd... Ariel Hukporti is who I'd like as a 7 footer for certain matchups. Even has decent range to bring those trees out of the paint. 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, warcore said:

I'd wanna see us use our #20 on a PG.... McBride/Hyland/Mann/Cooper... all will do just fine. 

Would like our big C with our 2nd... Ariel Hukporti is who I'd like as a 7 footer for certain matchups. Even has decent range to bring those trees out of the paint. 

I doubt Ariel will be there. Something tells me OKC have him in their bag. 

[JeffS17]

Appreciate these threads as I am pretty bad at following prospects.

One thing I think is funny is how every single draft all of the analysts love to claim this is a 3 player draft then it falls off, or this is a weak draft, etc etc, but then in that "3 player draft" we end up with Hunter and Reddish who very well may be franchise-level players for us.  I'm interested to see who we bring in, hopefully someone that can run backup PG for Trae and mix minutes with Lou/whoever else we bring in.

[h4wkfan]

41 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Others - 
Kessler Edwards
6-8    215    SF    Pepperdine    Jr.
Poor man's Klay Thompson, he's a lot like Klay but not the athlete or the shooter Klay was as a project. 90% Klay is what I expect long term. 

Neemias Queta
7-0    245    C    Utah State    Jr.
Vlade Divac lite

I would love to find a way to get these guys on 2 way deals and let them develop and get acclimated to better competition for a year or so in the g league. 
 

interesting comp on Kessler. I watched him and felt he could turn into a poor mans DeAndre Hunter - but his future is more 4 than 3. Not as much in terms of shot creation, but he’s not horrible in that aspect either. Defense is elite 1-4 and can matchup with some small ball 5s. 
 

as for point guards. #20 is a reach. But if I had to, I wouldn’t be mad at taking Jason Preston there. Combine and his measurements proved his athletic ability shouldn’t hold him back at all. He seems like a perfect fit to be the #3 PG spot for a year and then be full time backup. I really just love his game. Shooting form looked nice at the combine too.