The official NBASupes 2021 NBA Draft thread

[terrell]

22 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Draft Sharife Cooper. 

 

The End

If he's even there..Trae might raise his stock if he keeps it up...lol..

[KB21]

Another player that will very much interest the Hawks is Tre Mann from Florida.  He's a great spot up shooter with some handles and passing vision.  Lacks elite athletic traits.  20 years old.  ESPN's latest mock projects him to Atlanta.  

 

[benhillboy]

13 hours ago, ATLHawks3 said:

I feel like if we tried to draft him, it would be another Haliburton situation.

What was the “Halliburton situation?”  

[marco102]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

Another player that will very much interest the Hawks is Tre Mann from Florida.  He's a great spot up shooter with some handles and passing vision.  Lacks elite athletic traits.  20 years old.  ESPN's latest mock projects him to Atlanta.  

 

 

On 5/19/2021 at 12:31 PM, marco102 said:

@JayBirdHawk and @NBASupes my two favorites at 19 that address the Hawks' weaknesses (backup point guard/front court with size) are Tre Mann (Combo Guard) and Kai Jones (PF/C with great defense and offensive upside). They both could be late lottery picks or back end of the draft from the mocks I've seen.  

Tre Mann

 Kai Jones

 

I discussed Tre earlier in the thread.  I think he'll be a great fit. 

[ATLHawks3]

19 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

What was the “Halliburton situation?”  

Haliburton ducked us and didn't want us to draft him because we didn't have a clear opportunity to play him significant minutes early in the season.

[benhillboy]

10 minutes ago, ATLHawks3 said:

Haliburton ducked us and didn't want us to draft him because we didn't have a clear opportunity to play him significant minutes early in the season.

F&@k, I’ve never heard that.  I wanted him bad but I can understand his angle.  Instead of a wildly efficient shooter and passer with length backing up Trae we got Dunn showing off his luxury streetwear.  Awesome.  
 

I’m satisfied with the Young Yek pick tho regardless.

Edited May 28, 2021 by benhillboy

[benhillboy]

On 5/18/2021 at 8:54 PM, NBASupes said:

SGA is a PG, Ayo is more like a combo guard.

I’m curious as to why you call him a PG.  The Reference has him playing 77% of his career at the 2 or 3.  I’m a huge fan of his I always thought of him as a Pure Combo.  His main aim is always to attack the cup and his assists are paltry.

[NBASupes]

On 5/28/2021 at 11:23 AM, benhillboy said:

I’m curious as to why you call him a PG.  The Reference has him playing 77% of his career at the 2 or 3.  I’m a huge fan of his I always thought of him as a Pure Combo.  His main aim is always to attack the cup and his assists are paltry.

He runs the offense. He's a PG in my book. 

[NBASupes]

 

[AHF]

On 5/28/2021 at 12:05 PM, ATLHawks3 said:

Haliburton ducked us and didn't want us to draft him because we didn't have a clear opportunity to play him significant minutes early in the season.

I’m not sure he really ducked us.  He said after the fact that he was happy he didn’t go here for that reason in the context of talking about why he wanted to be in Sacto if I remember correctly.  
 

I suspect if we drafted him he would have talked about how thrilled he was to be in the ATL.  Of course, we would have likely passed on Bogi in that situation.

[sturt]

On 5/26/2021 at 2:18 PM, sturt said:

(... to no one in particular...)

OH. Wait. You do think we should just enjoy the cake's visual.

Got it. No eating. Just accept what's put on the table.

So you say Schlenk weighs trade offers, and can't find a good partner. What then? Can said cake be eaten still someway somehow???

Yes, but only under this condition. It has to be a Eurostash guy--ie, one whose rookie contract clock doesn't have to start until we're actually in a position to bring him over and have a genuine opening for him to have some possible impact.

And it so happens there is one that could be conceivably available @ #20... and it so happens, the timing could be great, in that, this kid could be a very plausible Gallinari replacement when that time comes.

 

And fun fact... there's some icing on that cake where BogBog is concerned... they're both from Belgrade.

 

(Mind you, I realize there's a lot of interest in drafting LouWill's replacement, but I have us replacing LouWill through free agency or trade. We can't possibly commit what we've come to realize is such a vital role on the depth chart to a player who either (a) isn't an offensive producer or (b) isn't a vet.)

[Diesel]

I want the kid from VCU.

 

[NBASupes]

I've been watching a lot of tape of late: 

Here's my PG take. A lot of these guys will suck in year 1 if play at all in the NBA but this class is like 2009 from the stance it has a lot of depth but their is no Steph Curry.

Suggs - Comparison - Better shooting form and more two way ability version of Markelle Fultz - ETA: 2022

Springer - Comparison - Jrue Holiday ETA: 2024

Josh Giddey - Comparison - LaMelo Ball with Joe Ingles athleticism ETA: 2022

Jared Butler - Comparison - George Hill ETA: 2023

Davion Mitchell - Comparison - Joe Dumars with a modern game and approach. Legit player. I'll take in the top 10. The only one I would take outside of Suggs who's top 5 for me.  ETA: 2023

Sharife Cooper - Comparison - No one. I am team Cooper. Why? Elite playmaker out of the PnR, can make every pass, hard to keep out the paint, draws fouls at a high clip and can shoot FTs well. The bad? Two level scorer, decision making is questionable like Trae's, terrible defender, doesn't shoot well, not efficient at all, needs a year in the G-League, maybe more. Lottery talent, Undrafted player but if you can develop him, he could be a major asset. ETA: 2025

Daishen Nix - Comparison - Andre Miller in the wrong era. ETA: 2025

Joel Ayayi - Comp - Michael Carter-Williams ETA: 2022

Ayo Dosunmu - Comp - If Pat Beverly was less of a dog and more of a two way player. ETA: 2023

Tre Mann - Comp - Not pretty, Tomas Satoransky ETA: 2023

Max Abmas - Comp - Smaller C.J. McCollum ETA: 2024

 

[thecampster]

I'd be okay flipping this year's pick for a future 1st or someone else's cast off in the right situation. A little gambling if you will. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 5/29/2021 at 7:48 PM, NBASupes said:

 

 

Draft Sharife.

Then have the Dream trade for his sister.

 

 

[nathan2331]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I've been watching a lot of tape of late: 

Here's my PG take. A lot of these guys will suck in year 1 if play at all in the NBA but this class is like 2009 from the stance it has a lot of depth but their is no Steph Curry.

Suggs - Comparison - Better shooting form and more two way ability version of Markelle Fultz - ETA: 2022

Springer - Comparison - Jrue Holiday ETA: 2024

Josh Giddey - Comparison - LaMelo Ball with Joe Ingles athleticism ETA: 2022

Jared Butler - Comparison - George Hill ETA: 2023

Davion Mitchell - Comparison - Joe Dumars with a modern game and approach. Legit player. I'll take in the top 10. The only one I would take outside of Suggs who's top 5 for me.  ETA: 2023

Sharife Cooper - Comparison - No one. I am team Cooper. Why? Elite playmaker out of the PnR, can make every pass, hard to keep out the paint, draws fouls at a high clip and can shoot FTs well. The bad? Two level scorer, decision making is questionable like Trae's, terrible defender, doesn't shoot well, not efficient at all, needs a year in the G-League, maybe more. Lottery talent, Undrafted player but if you can develop him, he could be a major asset. ETA: 2025

Daishen Nix - Comparison - Andre Miller in the wrong era. ETA: 2025

Joel Ayayi - Comp - Michael Carter-Williams ETA: 2022

Ayo Dosunmu - Comp - If Pat Beverly was less of a dog and more of a two way player. ETA: 2023

Tre Mann - Comp - Not pretty, Tomas Satoransky ETA: 2023

Max Abmas - Comp - Smaller C.J. McCollum ETA: 2024

 

Why do you like Cooper so much? I get he's the best passer in this draft, but that's most of his value. Considering he's a poor shooter, bad defender and lacks size, he can't play next to Trae. I don't understand why you spend a first on a guy you know can't play more than 16 minutes. I'd much rather get Ayo Dosunmu. He needs to improve with his passing, shooting consistency and his handle, but he's ready to play right away and has size so that he can play next Trae or Dunn or another PG. 

[NBASupes]

22 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

Why do you like Cooper so much? I get he's the best passer in this draft, but that's most of his value. Considering he's a poor shooter, bad defender and lacks size, he can't play next to Trae. I don't understand why you spend a first on a guy you know can't play more than 16 minutes. I'd much rather get Ayo Dosunmu. He needs to improve with his passing, shooting consistency and his handle, but he's ready to play right away and has size so that he can play next Trae or Dunn or another PG. 

For the same exact reason I liked Jeff Teague. Jeff was an undersized SG out of Wake. Mainly a SG in a backcourt with Ish Smith. Teague was an explosive 2 guard who had a solid 3pt shot when open and with his off the dribble quickness and first step, it was extremely difficult to stay in front of Teague. Here's the issues: he couldn't guard 2s. He had no PG skills. His passing was limited. He really didn't have a position. He shot form meant he was more of a spot-up shooter with limited potential for spot-up self creation on his shot. He best projected as a backup guard who can come off the bench and add a spark to a lesser degree than what you could get Lou Williams but I liken him to Kevin Johnson and I liked the pick. Why? He was a smart player. Knew how play the game. His handles were excellent for an off guard so I knew he could probably play on guard. He needed to get stronger but I knew he just needed to have time to develop. Jeff also was a good college defender and I felt in time, he would be good defensively guarding 1s in the NBA. 

Jeff Teague 2009 Draft Profile | Tankathon

For Cooper, he is a world class playmaker. On the level of Trae Young, LaMelo Ball,  and Ja Morant. His ability to run the PnR is elite right now. One of the most quick players in class if not the most quick player. He draws fouls at a higher clip than Trae out of college and is more quick than Trae. Due to his quickness and ability to put extreme pressure on the defense, he scores at the same clip as Jeff Teague while being younger and a freshman as a prospect. The issue is, his shooting massively an issue.

While his 2P% is not awful due to have a solid mid range jumper and being a decent finisher for his size, he is still very small(strong but small) and he will need a floater in the NBA. His range is bad. Like Anthony Edwards, he has a major bag of 3pt shots but he's even worse at them than Edwards due to his size and both were awful at them. I am not sold that his problem will be as easily fixed as it was with Edwards because he's still small while Ant is 6'5. Since the NCAA push the 3pt line back, these guys have had bigger drops on their percentages as freshman. I do think this will cut his points per game in half at least till his jumper is more consistent.

He's an offensive maestro and someone who I think is a special offensive talent but has severe limitations that could hurt him as a rookie on that end. Defensively, he's awful. I do think like Trae, a lot of it's due to effort and not just a lack of size like someone like Tyler Ulis (150 pounds). But he's horrible on that end. 

To me, there is no comparison for him. Guys with his offensive talent go in the top 5 generally speaking but he has severe flaws. He's a better prospect than Brandon Knight or Brandon Jennings. But he's probably the same tier as Jeff Teague. A good starter who can be an all star on the right squad but initially isn't going to help you much as a young player. 

Sharife Cooper 2021 Draft Profile | Tankathon

Jeff Teague Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

 

I had Jeff just outside of my top 10 of my big board as a prospect. 

 

If I had to rank these PGs: 

1. Suggs - Comparison - Better shooting form and more two way ability version of Markelle Fultz - ETA: 2022 Tier 1.5 Prospect - I think he could be superstar in the right situation and the right personnel long term. 

2. Davion Mitchell - Comparison - Joe Dumars with a modern game and approach. Legit player. I'll take in the top 10. The only one I would take outside of Suggs who's top 5 for me.  ETA: 2023 Tier 3 Prospect

3. Josh Giddey - Comparison - LaMelo Ball with Joe Ingles athleticism ETA: 2022 Tier 3.5 Prospect

4. Springer - Comparison - Jrue Holiday ETA: 2024 Tier 4 Prospect

5. Sharife Cooper - Comparison - No one. I am team Cooper. Why? Elite playmaker out of the PnR, can make every pass, hard to keep out the paint, draws fouls at a high clip and can shoot FTs well. The bad? Two level scorer, decision making is questionable like Trae's, terrible defender, doesn't shoot well, not efficient at all, needs a year in the G-League, maybe more. Lottery talent, Undrafted player but if you can develop him, he could be a major asset. ETA: 2025 Tier 4 Prospect

6. Ayo Dosunmu - Comp - If Pat Beverly was less of a dog and more of a two way player. ETA: 2023 Tier 4 Prospect

7. Max Abmas - Comp - Smaller C.J. McCollum ETA: 2024 Tier 4 Prospect

8. Jared Butler - Comparison - George Hill ETA: 2023 Tier 5 Prospect

9. Joel Ayayi - Comp - Michael Carter-Williams ETA: 2022 Tier 5 Prospect

10. Tre Mann - Comp - Not pretty, Tomas Satoransky ETA: 2023 Tier 5 Prospect

11. Daishen Nix - Comparison - Andre Miller in the wrong era. ETA: 2025 Tier 5 Prospect

 

Compared to last year's class: 

PG:
Positional strength compared to most class: Elite
High-End Talent: Excellent
Overall Depth: Elite

1. Ball
2. Killian Hayes
3. Tyrese Haliburton
4. Cole Anthony
5. Kira Lewis Jr.
6. Tre Jones
7. Theo Maledon
8. Tyrese Maxey
9. Devon Dotson
10. Saben Lee
11. Tyrell Terry
12. Grant Riller
13. Nico Mannion
14. Malachi Flynn
15. Payton Pritchard
16. Cassius Winston
17. Markus Howard
18. Ashton Hagans
19. Ayo Dosunmu
20. Jared Butler
21. Myles Powell
22. Kamar Baldwin
23. Jordan Ford

After this, just the top 10, this class was so deep at the PG position I just had to include most of them that I heavily scouted. - Note: Some of these guys returned to school like Butler and Dosunmu. 

Tier 2: All Star potential
2t. Ja had probably the best game of the tourney v. Marquette while having one of his head scratchers v. FSU and their high end NBA size. I am always a believer in him but he will need some development and won't be an easy fit in the NBA.

Tier 3.5: Decent Role player potential with All Star possibilities down the road. I do see these guys as Day 1 contributors.

6. Coby White - Big mover. Proved to me he is a 1st rounder. I am hard on PG prospects. You either have All Star potential or you aren't a 1st rounder for me. The NBA PG position is just too hard. If you aren't an All Star talent at that position, you might as well be a backup. Comparison- Ty Lawson (less PG skills/far less polished decision making skills with a high aptitude to learn and the same speed and quickness and both are used by Coach Roy in similar ways), Michael Carter-Williams frame and defensive potential, stronger than MCW, and Gilbert Arenas (Walking bucket like Gil, just very skilled, great shooter and an excellent feel of the game).

7. Darius Garland - He has all of the potential you want as an off the ball scorer and a smart PG. Not the passer of yet but just plays a good game. I compared him to Mike Conley. Moved ahead of Hunter just based off of potential for me.


Tier 4: Decent Role player potential or raw with AS possibilities. Deep Tier 4 class. One of the best in years. Of course, some of these guys could return.

36. Ty Jerome - Not quite the shooter Shamet was but a better PG and a much better defender. But he doesn't have the positional versatility that Shamet had. Jerome really is a PG. Potential to be a low end starter in the NBA which is pretty good for a 2nd round grade. high floor/semi low ceiling.
 

I didn't include tier 5 PGs for 2019. 

2019 was an extremely weak PG class. 2020 was generational. 2021 has the potential to be like 2009 sans the Curry prospectus. The PG classes have been tremendous of late overall. 

 

[nathan2331]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

To me, there is no comparison for him. Guys with his offensive talent go in the top 5 generally speaking but he has severe flaws. He's a better prospect than Brandon Knight or Brandon Jennings. But he's probably the same tier as Jeff Teague. A good starter who can be an all star on the right squad but initially isn't going to help you much as a young player. 

I mean you've kind of reinforced the reasons why we shouldn't even be looking at Cooper. He needs time to develop, and even if he does put everything together, he can't play next to Trae. Cooper as a prospect in general I have no issue with your analysis. But I don't see how he'd be a better pick than Giddey, Dosunmu or a more mediocre PG like Joel Ayayi. 

[NBASupes]

Just now, nathan2331 said:

I mean you've kind of reinforced the reasons why we shouldn't even be looking at Cooper. He needs time to develop, and even if he does put everything together, he can't play next to Trae. Cooper as a prospect in general I have no issue with your analysis. But I don't see how he'd be a better pick than Giddey, Dosunmu or a more mediocre PG like Joel Ayayi. 

None of these guys are ready yet either. If you wanted a guy who can help you in year 1, you should have Haliburton who didn't want to come to Atlanta. 

Giddley and Mitchell are guys who can play a role off the bench and could help us next year. I just don't think they will be there at 20. 

There is no NBA ready player in our draft range at this position. To be honest with you, this draft is weak outside of it being top heavy. You could reach for Ayayi who's more of a 3rd string PG with backup PG potential. Do you really want to waste a 1st on someone who will never have that type of value? You would do better looking at other positions then. 

Ayayi is a clear 2nd rounder. He would be a massive reach at 20. 

For what we need, I'll take Cooper and find someone to replace Lou unless he wants to play another season with the Hawks.

[nathan2331]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

None of these guys are ready yet either. If you wanted a guy who can help you in year 1, you should have Haliburton who didn't want to come to Atlanta. 

Giddley and Mitchell are guys who can play a role off the bench and could help us next year. I just don't think they will be there at 20. 

There is no NBA ready player in our draft range at this position. To be honest with you, this draft is weak outside of it being top heavy. You could reach for Ayayi who's more of a 3rd string PG with backup PG potential. Do you really want to waste a 1st on someone who will never have that type of value? You would do better looking at other positions then. 

Ayayi is a clear 2nd rounder. He would be a massive reach at 20. 

For what we need, I'll take Cooper and find someone to replace Lou unless he wants to play another season with the Hawks.

Giddey might not be there, but Ayo Dosunmu should be. I think you're underrating him a lot. I don't know why you compared him to Pat Bev when he's doesn't really play like Beverly at all. Dosunmu to me isn't that tenacious of a defender, and he's a much better offensive player than Beverley is. There are flaws in his game for sure, but he could come in and play on or off the ball.

Ayayi I agree is a second rounder, however I still think he'd be a lot more valuable to the Hawks over Cooper at least. I would not draft him at 20, but I don't see why the Hawks should draft Cooper at all. We don't need to duplicate Trae. If anything, the target at backup PG should be the closest thing you can find to Jrue Holiday. Someone with size and versatility that can offer different things and guard multiple positions well. Dosunmu checks some boxes and misses in others. But he can play right away,  I think he's shown plenty of growth in his 3 seasons at Illinois.