If Golden State is giving up Wiseman, the Hawks should be Listening.

[Final_quest]

I think the reason to move Cam or Huerter is obvious.  We can’t afford to pay all these wings, and we can get a rookie scale contract instead.  
 

It’s a gamble, but I understand why we would do it.  

[Diesel]

13 hours ago, thescout said:

Just doing some sleuthing on Wiseman. What I found so far is Golden State is ready to win now and Wiseman it might take him awhile to be a force in the league. His athleticism is jaw dropping running up and down the floor. I have heard names like Beal and Paul George as possible deals for him being the key in a package.

Do the Hawks even have enough to get him? Do they need him?    

we spoke of a package of Clint Gallo and an exchange of picks

[Diesel]

Ok.. Well... Let me again suggest the offensive strengths of Wiseman.

1.  Guaranteed Finisher. 

2.  Slips the screen very well. 

3.  Spin Move that works 70% of the time.

4.  One of the best sealers that I have seen coming out of college.  (Sealing is one of those arts that sometimes take 3 years to learn; 4-5 years to perfect)  This kid has a good feel for sealing smaller and bigger opponents already. 

5.  Jumphook that is trash right now and he uses it too much but you can see the potential if he can get it working. 

6.  Can run the break. (even though he's heavily left handed).  But how many 7 footers can run the break.  I watched Shaq do it and some others but this kid has it. 

7.  Fool's gold is his three point shooting.   He shot like 40% but he's no Porzingas.  I wouldn't count that three pointer for -----. 

8.  Developing Midrange shot.   It's important because instinctually when pushed out this kid faces up...  On the face up, he either goes for his 70% spin move or his shoots the midrange shot.   IF he can get this midrange shot to go about 45% of the time he will be one of the most dangerous offensive players to play. 

 

The thing to be giddy about Wiseman about is that right now a lot of what he does is instinct.   I don't know if it is trained but he has an instinct for doing the things that he can do.  It's a lie going around about his BBIQ.  Why do we do that on here??  Why if it's something we disagree about, we make up some B.S.   This kid's BBIQ is pretty good considering he was placed in the GS Warrior offense and didn't collapse.  I've watched Centers in that offense collapse.   Looney.  McGee.  Others.. because that offense is not screen and rolls for the bigs.

What I see when I see him is that Trae could make this guy a bigger monster.  He already is a great finisher and he slips the screen just as good as JC...   Trae would have a Center that could kill. 

I think GS would definitely consider the Capela/Gallo exchange of picks trade because it frees their cap but more importantly gives them veteran win now players. 

 

[thescout]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

we spoke of a package of Clint Gallo and an exchange of picks

Do you think the Hawks package is greater than the Clippers or Washington package?

[Jdawgflow]

Wiseman looks like a lost child at the mall (back when they were indoors).  He may turn out great but right now he will not help us win unless it is as Clint’s BU.  And I doubt we could swing a trade without losing our starters.  Only thing I would consider is Collins and filler for Wiseman and Wiggins.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, thescout said:

Do you think the Hawks package is greater than the Clippers or Washington package?

Well, the real package was Siakim.  I think our package is better than that. 

If the Washington Package is Beal, the question is where do you play him?

If the Clipper offered Playoff George then... yes, they have a better package.   I just don't see why LAC would do it.   It would guarantee that the Clipps don't get close to the finals for at least the next 3 years.  Because not only do you take away one of your best players but at the same time, you make GS damn near unbeatable. 

[Diesel]

Had to get Wised up on the Wizards deal...

Golden State Warriors receive: Bradley Beal, Avery Bradley

Houston Rockets receive: James Wiseman, No. 7 pick in 2021, No. 14 pick in 2021

Washington Wizards receive: No. 2 pick in 2021, Andrew Wiggins

What????

If there was a way that we could jump in and replace Houston, I would do it.  But that #2 pick is something. 

 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Had to get Wised up on the Wizards deal...

Golden State Warriors receive: Bradley Beal, Avery Bradley

Houston Rockets receive: James Wiseman, No. 7 pick in 2021, No. 14 pick in 2021

Washington Wizards receive: No. 2 pick in 2021, Andrew Wiggins

What????

If there was a way that we could jump in and replace Houston, I would do it.  But that #2 pick is something. 

 

Not happening.

[RandomFan]

We aren't trading for Wiseman. Just stop...

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 hours ago, Final_quest said:

I think the reason to move Cam or Huerter is obvious.  We can’t afford to pay all these wings, and we can get a rookie scale contract instead.  
 

It’s a gamble, but I understand why we would do it.  

 

If that's the reason, they can wait until next season to do it.  

[Final_quest]

59 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

If that's the reason, they can wait until next season to do it.  

The most common trait of successful people is that they make plans.  If you wait until next year, then you are a year behind.  The person drafted this year has more development than someone drafted next year.

The teams may not want to trade a lottery pick next year.  The draft class may not be as good.  Waiting because you can may not be the best move.  
I just see the wisdom in making a move now if you know you aren’t keeping all 4 wings.  It still makes me uncomfortable.  Understand those who want to keep everyone.  

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, RandomFan said:

We aren't trading for Wiseman. Just stop...

'

I like your selective picking here.  This is a fan poll and you know as well as I that when you read the whole thread, most of the fans say Isaiah Stewart is better than Both OO and Wise.   Which says that fans don't know jack. 

[Diesel]

Now Random this is not a comparison of OO and Wiseman.  That's the tangent that you're trying to create.... but 

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2020-nba-draft-comparing-james-wiseman-and-onyeka-okongwu-the-top-big-man-prospects/

[RandomFan]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

'

I like your selective picking here.  This is a fan poll and you know as well as I that when you read the whole thread, most of the fans say Isaiah Stewart is better than Both OO and Wise.   Which says that fans don't know jack. 

Except Joe Hulbert isn't just a fan, he's a well respected basketball writer that covers the Mavs. Interestingly he recently did a lengthy article on our Okongwu that apparently many people still haven't taken the time to familiarize themselves with. 

https://premiumhoops.org/2021/07/05/onyeka-okongwus-rare-movement-skills-and-high-touch-offense/

[Gray Mule]

1 hour ago, RandomFan said:

Except Joe Hulbert isn't just a fan, he's a well respected basketball writer that covers the Mavs. Interestingly he recently did a lengthy article on our Okongwu that apparently many people still haven't taken the time to familiarize themselves with. 

https://premiumhoops.org/2021/07/05/onyeka-okongwus-rare-movement-skills-and-high-touch-offense/

Great!  If you were not a fan of Agent 0017, you will become one when you read this!  Sometimes, we fans don't really appreciate what we have.  This may be a great example.  If you fall into this category then I urge you to read this.  

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, RandomFan said:

Except Joe Hulbert isn't just a fan, he's a well respected basketball writer that covers the Mavs. Interestingly he recently did a lengthy article on our Okongwu that apparently many people still haven't taken the time to familiarize themselves with. 

https://premiumhoops.org/2021/07/05/onyeka-okongwus-rare-movement-skills-and-high-touch-offense/

That was a good read. Thanks.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

9 hours ago, Final_quest said:

The most common trait of successful people is that they make plans.  If you wait until next year, then you are a year behind.  The person drafted this year has more development than someone drafted next year.

The teams may not want to trade a lottery pick next year.  The draft class may not be as good.  Waiting because you can may not be the best move.  
I just see the wisdom in making a move now if you know you aren’t keeping all 4 wings.  It still makes me uncomfortable.  Understand those who want to keep everyone.  

 

No, you wait until next year to make sure that you don't trade the wrong wing.  And you can still have the plan in place.  You just wait to execute it a year later.

If the organization truly thinks that Cam can turn into something special, they need to keep him here and trade someone else.  And he is still under his rookie contract for 2 more years.  There's no rush to trade him at this moment, unless you can flip him for an All-Star player.

The Hawks are in a great position of power.  They can hold onto their young guys for at least 1 more year, and see if they can do something truly special.  If they want to add higher caliber players, they can flip one or two of the young guys for a significant piece.

 

 

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, RandomFan said:

Except Joe Hulbert isn't just a fan, he's a well respected basketball writer that covers the Mavs. Interestingly he recently did a lengthy article on our Okongwu that apparently many people still haven't taken the time to familiarize themselves with. 

https://premiumhoops.org/2021/07/05/onyeka-okongwus-rare-movement-skills-and-high-touch-offense/

Again.  Don't see how OO figures into this discussion.  I think having Both would be great. 

With OO...  Higher Floor.

With JW...  Higher Ceiling. 

That's the bottom line.      When it is all said and done.... Wiseman's 7'1" height, 7'6" Wingspan, Motor, and athleticism is going to mean a whole lot to whatever team gets him.  And he will be the guy who steps up after the Embiid, KAT era. 

[KB21]

I never was a big fan of Wiseman.  He's not skilled enough to be an elite player as a center in today's NBA.  

[thecampster]

@Diesel Let me see if I can redirect those energies of yours

Over the years, ECF/WCF/Finals appearances have been littered with players who other teams gave up on during the their rookie contracts.

 

Can you provide me a list of players in the first 3 years of their NBA experience that A.) Their teams are willing to move and B.) Their potential has not been tapped. C) were taken in the first 15 or so picks.

 

That's what I think we need to get over the hump, not "superstars". I'm looking for bargains (SA mentality).  Get me that list and I'll show you a list of trades we can do.