8/4 UPDATE: Collins to sign $125 million deal with the Hawks per Woj

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Mainly because they are older players who are on short term contracts, and the team has young talent that is developing at a fast rate behind them who will be coming due for new contracts once these are off the books.  

Not only that but Hunter is already better and more valuable to the team when healthy that either of those two.  Huerter is also coming.

[Dynamo]

blob:https://www.hawksquawk.net/cdc8c55e-dd69-4ebc-96ab-b6473f2b8bab

[Spud2nique]

John Collins is such a greedy madafcker. We draft him, groom him to be the player he is today and he is yanking our chains with this contract signing bs. Overrated tweener a$$ redundant piece. Ahhh who the hell needs him! We got a deep team. If he wants to go to a crappier team then let’s just let him go. GOOD RIDDANCE YOU PIECE O..

 

Whisper: {Spud he signed the max 5/125 with us this morning} 

 

Well this is awkward.

 

WELCOME BACK JOHNNY!!!!! You are the heart and soul of our team and we couldna had the great run we had this past season without ya! John Collins is the best thing since sliced bread .

 

1 hour ago, lethalweapon3 said:

Friend of the Program shared his thoughts...

~lw3

I love that guy. Baaaabbb! 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Gallo!?!

Goner?

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

John Collins is such a greedy madafcker. We draft him, groom him to be the player he is today and he is yanking our chains with this contract signing bs. Overrated tweener a$$ redundant piece. Ahhh who the hell needs him! We got a deep team. If he wants to go to a crappier team then let’s just let him go. GOOD RIDDANCE YOU PIECE O..

 

Whisper: {Spud he signed the max 5/125 with us this morning} 

 

Well this is awkward.

 

WELCOME BACK JOHNNY!!!!! You are the heart and soul of our team and we couldna had the great run we had this past season without ya! John Collins is the best thing since sliced bread .

 

Clever ones'll be all ...

The rest'll be ...

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

Goner?

... traded for Melo?

[RedDawg#8]

Now that it's official I can finally gloat. Been saying 24-26mil avg per year all season long. Nailed it.

That was always the sweet spot for him. Not a Max, that was never going to happen, which is why I never worried or felt the need to get butthurt.

Glad everything worked out

[sturt]

I had him at $26m aav.

So, on my spreadsheet, we got a deal.

[sturt]

8 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Goner?

Dunno. But I've been persuaded by someone with better insight than I would ever have that it's still plausible.

Add to that, Schultz stated outright yesterday in his article that he was aware that there is another shoe that could drop. Is that this? Is that Cam? Is that signing LouWill or other? Only he knows.

[RedDawg#8]

Apparently Cam and Gallo will be the 2 trade bait pieces we dangle all season, waiting for a desperate team to bite.

[bleachkit]

4 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Now that it's official I can finally gloat. Been saying 24-26mil avg per year all season long. Nailed it.

That was always the sweet spot for him. Not a Max, that was never going to happen, which is why I never worried or felt the need to get butthurt.

Glad everything worked out

JC wanted 30 per, Hawks wanted a little over 20 per, and they settled on 25. I'm happy he got paid, but how are we going to afford Kevin, Cam and Dre? Kevin could get Duncan Robinson money, 5 year/90 million. Yikes. 

[JeffS17]

2 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

JC wanted 30 per, Hawks wanted a little over 20 per, and they settled on 25. I'm happy he got paid, but how are we going to afford Kevin, Cam and Dre? Kevin could get Duncan Robinson money, 5 year/90 million. Yikes. 

We're not going to be able to afford them all, even Ressler has admitted that in interviews with Kirschner.  As much as everyone cries out against "consolidating", that's exactly what we're going to have to do sooner than later.  Heurter is probably close to Duncan money but he's not as good of a shooter and guys who are elite at their role get paid a premium.  Heurter is more well rounded but not elite at anything.  I think he's worth $12-15M/year but I tend to be off on the low side for most guys -- thought Collins would be around $23M.  And I definitely didn't think Jimmy Butler was worth $46M per.  

 

As much as I want to extend Heurter, I really think we have to continue to be hard bargainers if we want to keep the squad together.  Heurter is a really great candidate for a team to "overpay" but I hope we extend him before that's a possibility next summer.

[Dejay]

It took TS awhile but his Jedi mind trick eventually worked...

'You don't need a max deal...'

'I don't need a max deal...'

'And you will not demand a trade...'

'I will not demand a trade...'

'Staying with the Hawks is what you always wanted...'

'Staying with the Hawks is what I always wanted...'

Edited August 4, 2021 by Dejay

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

We're not going to be able to afford them all, even Ressler has admitted that in interviews with Kirschner.  As much as everyone cries out against "consolidating", that's exactly what we're going to have to do sooner than later.  Heurter is probably close to Duncan money but he's not as good of a shooter and guys who are elite at their role get paid a premium.  Heurter is more well rounded but not elite at anything.  I think he's worth $12-15M/year but I tend to be off on the low side for most guys -- thought Collins would be around $23M.  And I definitely didn't think Jimmy Butler was worth $46M per.  

 

As much as I want to extend Heurter, I really think we have to continue to be hard bargainers if we want to keep the squad together.  Heurter is a really great candidate for a team to "overpay" but I hope we extend him before that's a possibility next summer.

For Kevin, Cam and Dre, this coming year will be a big one. I think we kinda know what we have in Kevin. For Dre and Cam, it's about getting healthy. 

[sturt]

Just now, JeffS17 said:

sooner than later

Depends on your definition of "sooner" and "later."

Looking at the 21-22 inventory, we're good.

Looking at the 22-23 inventory and assuming we lose Gallo, we're good... but even if we didn't, assuming we win a title in 21-22, Ressler has said he's good with paying tax in that circumstance.

So, I'm looking at the 2023 off-season before we really have to get seriously concerned, and even that is only if we find that we've struck gold on both Dre and Cam. The likelihood of that, or even of merely one of them being worth max money is still not something any of us would want to bet a house payment on.

[Spud2nique]

27 minutes ago, kg01 said:

... traded for Melo?

Where’s that unreasonable guy from yesterday? I miss that dood! 

[JeffS17]

6 minutes ago, sturt said:

Depends on your definition of "sooner" and "later."

Looking at the 21-22 inventory, we're good.

Looking at the 22-23 inventory and assuming we lose Gallo, we're good... but even if we didn't, assuming we win a title in 21-22, Ressler has said he's good with paying tax in that circumstance.

So, I'm looking at the 2023 off-season before we really have to get seriously concerned, and even that is only if we find that we've struck gold on both Dre and Cam. The likelihood of that, or even of merely one of them being worth max money is still not something any of us would want to bet a house payment on.

Yeah 2 summers from now is when we have to make the tough decisions (assuming we haven't made moves before then).  I'm biased that we will be crunched because I'm so high on both Cam and Hunter!

[swanlee]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Cause they were primarily important because of injury.  If Hunter was healthy, then Hunter and Cam would have been main contributors

We are always going to have injuries and keeping these guys gives us a much more versatile lineup that enables more rest for other players when needed. Just not sure why some people first reaction is to try and dismantle the team and play monopoly with the money on more risky players.

Not my money, I don't care, keep them all as long as you can.

[Atlantaholic]

I felt 22.5 was the right price for his production...25 is a slight overpay, but heck like I said, who didn't get overpaid this year? people knock his 17-7 on 65% ts and 40% from three and say he is a role player... well, ok, how many PF in the NBA put together those numbers? They say he faded in the playoffs because his numbers dropped... well, they seem to forget how pivotal he was in the comebacks against Philly, without him there is zero chance we beat them. Zero. He had more clutch plays these playoffs than anyone not named Trae Young, Hawks played three absolutely elite defenses who's gameplan was to eliminate the lob attempts and force Trae to beat them, not a single player on the team outside of Trae saw an increase in their raw production as a result. Collins may never be a man who carries his team as a number 1 option, but we don't need him to be that. We need him to be an elite supporting player and he has proven he can do that. With more depth at the PG position, and Collins no doubt continuing to improve like he has done very single season, I have a feeling the 14-9 numbers on 63% TS everyone scoffs at will be his floor as far as playoff production goes, and I wouldn't be surprised if his deal three years from now ends up looking like a big time bargain. 

 

 

[thecampster]

15 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

JC wanted 30 per, Hawks wanted a little over 20 per, and they settled on 25. I'm happy he got paid, but how are we going to afford Kevin, Cam and Dre? Kevin could get Duncan Robinson money, 5 year/90 million. Yikes. 

This is a good question but all we have to look at right now is next year. Let 2023 take care of itself.

Next year is Trae/Huerter and we already know Trae's number.  His starting max deal is almost exactly $20 million more than he's making this year.  Gallo's salary is almost exactly 20 million.  Gallo being traded this year or next fixes this. Delon Wright's money comes off next year as well and the difference between Kev's salary this year and next (4 this, 13 next) is pretty much Delon's salary.  This is not accounting for serious increase in the cap next year.  Basically Kev and Trae are accounted for by trading Gallo, not renewing Wright.

The following year, Hunter's previous salary will be almost $10 million so his jump and Cam's (<$6 mil final year) are partially taken care of by the increases in the cap and player contacts ending. Bogi has a player option that year and will most likely opt out. Capela's contract ends that year.  Its safe to assume Cam/Huerter takes over the starting role for Bogi and our youngins are stepping up their game at that point (Mays/Cooper, next year's pick, etc). Bogi is most likely gone and his salary alone will make up most of the increases due Hunter/Cam.  Capela is the wild card there and it depends if his value increases or decreases.

You also have to remember there are injury concerns, personal concerns that could throw a wrench into all of this. But if the vet contracts fall off at the appropriate time and our guys step up as they mature, we can afford all 5 without issue. Its after that things get hairy.

 

[bleachkit]

8 minutes ago, sturt said:

Depends on your definition of "sooner" and "later."

Looking at the 21-22 inventory, we're good.

Looking at the 22-23 inventory and assuming we lose Gallo, we're good... but even if we didn't, assuming we win a title in 21-22, Ressler has said he's good with paying tax in that circumstance.

So, I'm looking at the 2023 off-season before we really have to get seriously concerned, and even that is only if we find that we've struck gold on both Dre and Cam. The likelihood of that, or even of merely one of them being worth max money is still not something any of us would want to bet a house payment on.

You don't have to strike gold to get paid in the NBA. Kevin is a solid player, maybe a starter, maybe a rotation guy you bring in off the bench. He could easily be a 15+ per guy next summer. He could get Duncan Robinson money. Heat fans thought they could get him at 10 to 12 per, nope.