8/4 UPDATE: Collins to sign $125 million deal with the Hawks per Woj

[timebomb]

Reports say teams are thinking Collins is a lock to return to Atlanta on a hefty contract near max money. If it’s a 4 year deal it’s near max money. If it’s for 5 years it’s for a guy who fits perfectly with Trae in the pick and roll and can hit three’s but he’s not a great or even good defender per the stats and visually. If it’s five years it’s 25 per, which is a little more palatable. 
So if 120 is the number and the Hawks are going to retain JC what’s the excitement level and do you think JC is worth it? 

[thecampster]

40 minutes ago, timebomb said:

Reports say teams are thinking Collins is a lock to return to Atlanta on a hefty contract near max money. If it’s a 4 year deal it’s near max money. If it’s for 5 years it’s for a guy who fits perfectly with Trae in the pick and roll and can hit three’s but he’s not a great or even good defender per the stats and visually. If it’s five years it’s 25 per, which is a little more palatable. 
So if 120 is the number and the Hawks are going to retain JC what’s the excitement level and do you think JC is worth it? 

These are the numbers for $120k. I'm thinking its closer to $130.5k (see previous post) and I think the 5th year is going to be a player option.

2021-22:  $20,690,000

2022-23:  $ 22,345,200

2023-24:  $ 24,000,400

2024-25:  $ 25,655,600

2025-26:  $ 27,310,800

Total -     $ 120,002,000

Edited August 1, 2021 by thecampster

[marco102]

 

[thecampster]

One thing in our favor here, John already has a number of local endorsement deals in place.

[Atlantaholic]

I would be perfectly happy paying JC 25 a year in the current market. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

A 5yr / 120M deal basically forces a team to offer JC the max for his services, to come close to the overall deal reported here.  If there were more teams with a huge amount of cap space, JC might get that 4yr / 117M deal

So if a team like San Antonio offers 4/105, does JC even sign that deal?  Or does he sign the 5/125, to guarantee that he'll get the 125?

 

If this is the deal, Hawks fans can't be mad at this at all.  We need JC kept in the fold, so that he'll be happy.

 

The other thing the Hawks can do this season, is go ahead and lock up Trae with a max contract of their own . . at a lower price . . because he didn't make an All-NBA team.  5/163 right now . . but could be 5/190 if he made an All-NBA team.

Huerter is eligible too.  That will be the big question.  If you want to bring back Huerter, how much do you offer him?

[JTB]

40 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

A 5yr / 120M deal basically forces a team to offer JC the max for his services, to come close to the overall deal reported here.  If there were more teams with a huge amount of cap space, JC might get that 4yr / 117M deal

So if a team like San Antonio offers 4/105, does JC even sign that deal?  Or does he sign the 5/125, to guarantee that he'll get the 125?

 

If this is the deal, Hawks fans can't be mad at this at all.  We need JC kept in the fold, so that he'll be happy.

 

The other thing the Hawks can do this season, is go ahead and lock up Trae with a max contract of their own . . at a lower price . . because he didn't make an All-NBA team.  5/163 right now . . but could be 5/190 if he made an All-NBA team.

Huerter is eligible too.  That will be the big question.  If you want to bring back Huerter, how much do you offer him?

Whew! Pray for that man schlenk…it’s way tougher to be an nba gm than nfl gm in my opinion.

You have to be careful not to hand out any bad contracts . Not saying schlenk is but just saying ….

[niremetal]

2 hours ago, JTB said:

Whew! Pray for that man schlenk…it’s way tougher to be an nba gm than nfl gm in my opinion.

You have to be careful not to hand out any bad contracts . Not saying schlenk is but just saying ….

The impact of a bad salary that "only" eats up ~20% of your salary cap isn't that extreme--the Magic were legit threats to win it all in 2009 and 2010 while paying Rashard Lewis more than a third of the cap when his true value was at best half that. It just makes it essential to find a way to squeeze value out of players on rookie scale contracts (e.g., JJ Redick) and the right role players (e.g., Matt Barnes). I think Schlenk has proven he can do that.

But my hope is that the Hawks find a way to frontload Collins' deal so that the heftiest parts hit this coming season and next, before Trae and 'Dre's deals kick in. By the time his contract is up in 2025, the cap will probably be $120M-125M. If we can "only" pay him, say, $22M in the last year of his contract, that's not gonna sink us even if he goes the way of Chandler Parsons.

Edited August 1, 2021 by niremetal

[JTB]

4 hours ago, niremetal said:

The impact of a bad salary that "only" eats up ~20% of your salary cap isn't that extreme--the Magic were legit threats to win it all in 2009 and 2010 while paying Rashard Lewis more than a third of the cap when his true value was at best half that. It just makes it essential to find a way to squeeze value out of players on rookie scale contracts (e.g., JJ Redick) and the right role players (e.g., Matt Barnes). I think Schlenk has proven he can do that.

But my hope is that the Hawks find a way to frontload Collins' deal so that the heftiest parts hit this coming season and next, before Trae and 'Dre's deals kick in. By the time his contract is up in 2025, the cap will probably be $120M-125M. If we can "only" pay him, say, $22M in the last year of his contract, that's not gonna sink us even if he goes the way of Chandler Parsons.

Isn’t this referenced as “Poison Pill” in the NBA? …front loading a contract?…..ah don’t matter anyways I like that idea especially for the Hawks  right now. If I’m not mistaking seem like Daryl Morey use to do this all the time in Houston. Basically like you said these numbers from @thecampster in reverse.

 

9 hours ago, thecampster said:

These are the numbers for $120k. I'm thinking its closer to $130.5k (see previous post) and I think the 5th year is going to be a player option.

2021-22:  $20,690,000

2022-23:  $ 22,345,200

2023-24:  $ 24,000,400

2024-25:  $ 25,655,600

2025-26:  $ 27,310,800

Total -     $ 120,002,000

I been reading 120k over 5 years. If JC gets closer to 130k I believe that’s a huge risk for the team. 120k is already more than what it should be in my opinion. The most JC should be getting is 110k in my honest opinion. 

[thecampster]

8 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

A 5yr / 120M deal basically forces a team to offer JC the max for his services, to come close to the overall deal reported here.  If there were more teams with a huge amount of cap space, JC might get that 4yr / 117M deal

So if a team like San Antonio offers 4/105, does JC even sign that deal?  Or does he sign the 5/125, to guarantee that he'll get the 125?

 

If this is the deal, Hawks fans can't be mad at this at all.  We need JC kept in the fold, so that he'll be happy.

 

The other thing the Hawks can do this season, is go ahead and lock up Trae with a max contract of their own . . at a lower price . . because he didn't make an All-NBA team.  5/163 right now . . but could be 5/190 if he made an All-NBA team.

Huerter is eligible too.  That will be the big question.  If you want to bring back Huerter, how much do you offer him?

I've got him slotted at 12 -15m starting next year. Biggest issue with Kevin is he hasn't sniffed 40% from 3 yet except for a month last year.  If he improves his long range consistency this off season and breaks above 40%, now we have a problem. Kevin's defense was really good late last year but it was only useable against 2's/3's. He lacks the foot speed and raw strength of Hunter to guard 1-4. But if he breaks up past 40%, now you're talking about someone throwing 18-20m a season to him next year and that complicates things.

The other thing is we have 2 seasons to answer the durability questions on Hunter/Reddish. We can't pencil in their money until they prove they can play a full season.

[thecampster]

41 minutes ago, JTB said:

Isn’t this referenced as “Poison Pill” in the NBA? …front loading a contract?…..ah don’t matter anyways I like that idea especially for the Hawks  right now. If I’m not mistaking seem like Daryl Morey use to do this all the time in Houston. Basically like you said these numbers from @thecampster in reverse.

 

I been reading 120k over 5 years. If JC gets closer to 130k I believe that’s a huge risk for the team. 120k is already more than what it should be in my opinion. The most JC should be getting is 110k in my honest opinion. 

up or down 8% per season in the NBA. you can go more then slowly decrease but you can't front load with a bonus or pay 20 mil season 1 and 5 mil season 2 on the same contract. You are correct. The yearly difference is 8%.

 

Also, lets institute a new rule. You can't take anything I say as gospel between the hours of midnight and 10 AM. I need to wake up before I start spouting numbers.

[Plainview1981]

The only thing that notable about Collins is effeciency.  John is maybe a 14/7 player in the playoffs.

The 20/10 a few years ago was just him being one of the few options the team had.

One might argue that his effeciency helps balances out Tree's inefficiency, 

This front court though is highly paid and unable to overwhelm other teams when it matters the most.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

38 minutes ago, thecampster said:

The other thing is we have 2 seasons to answer the durability questions on Hunter/Reddish. We can't pencil in their money until they prove they can play a full season.

[swanlee]

I hope we can keep our young core together for 3-5 years, don't care how much it costs

[bird_dirt]

8 hours ago, JTB said:

Isn’t this referenced as “Poison Pill” in the NBA? …front loading a contract?…..ah don’t matter anyways I like that idea especially for the Hawks  right now. If I’m not mistaking seem like Daryl Morey use to do this all the time in Houston. Basically like you said these numbers from @thecampster in reverse.

 

I been reading 120k over 5 years. If JC gets closer to 130k I believe that’s a huge risk for the team. 120k is already more than what it should be in my opinion. The most JC should be getting is 110k in my honest opinion. 

120k is nothing! He's worth 1000 times that imo.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, swanlee said:

I hope we can keep our young core together for 3-5 years, don't care how much it costs

 

That's how teams like Sacramento get in trouble.  Then halfway through they're like . . . uh oh, we need to deal this guy for a vet player or for assets.

Watch what they do with Marvin Bagley.

[JayBirdHawk]

59 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

That's how teams like Sacramento get in trouble.  Then halfway through they're like . . . uh oh, we need to deal this guy for a vet player or for assets.

Watch what they do with Marvin Bagley.

King are a different kind of 'special' though. 

[turnermx]

yep!

[ATLHawks3]

18 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

A 5yr / 120M deal basically forces a team to offer JC the max for his services, to come close to the overall deal reported here.  If there were more teams with a huge amount of cap space, JC might get that 4yr / 117M deal

So if a team like San Antonio offers 4/105, does JC even sign that deal?  Or does he sign the 5/125, to guarantee that he'll get the 125?

 

If this is the deal, Hawks fans can't be mad at this at all.  We need JC kept in the fold, so that he'll be happy.

 

The other thing the Hawks can do this season, is go ahead and lock up Trae with a max contract of their own . . at a lower price . . because he didn't make an All-NBA team.  5/163 right now . . but could be 5/190 if he made an All-NBA team.

Huerter is eligible too.  That will be the big question.  If you want to bring back Huerter, how much do you offer him?

San Antonio is the only team that could really threaten us. Miami and Dallas don't want to tie up their capspace for 3 days when they're also in the market for Lowry and DeRozan.

[ATLHawks3]

Oh and I'm giving Huerter a 4/64 deal starting off.