8/4 UPDATE: Collins to sign $125 million deal with the Hawks per Woj

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, sturt said:

Sticking with my $25-$26m aav prediction. Is he worth that today? No. But I feel safe in saying he projects to be, and that free agency in your first vet contract isn't just about what you've done, but what your trajectory looks like. It just is. We were having this same conversation about Tobias Harris several weeks ago, and the two situations truly are pretty similar taking a snapshot of what people seemed to think of him when he was getting his first vet contract and the same for JC right now. The math says that if JC gets what Tobias did, then as a percentage of the salary cap, JC's aav will be in that range of the prediction.

He's never going to he worth that. That's the f***ing problem. 

He's just good. He would need to be very good for that. How is he going to be very good when we are as stacked as we are. We got about 3 guys who can replace his ass in 2022. JC needs to be smart about this. There is a reason no one is really willing to give in to his demands. Because everyone think Atlanta is giving him more than enough string to work with. Bro gonna Nerlens Noel himself.

[bleachkit]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Dennis Schröder and John Collins are the two most delusional Hawks former or past outside of Smoove I've ever seen and to be honest, worse than Smoove. 

John, you just f***ing good bro. Your not close to all star level even in a bad situation. You get no votes from nobody. But you think you are 5/120 good? Are you out of your f***ing mind! 

Dennis turned down 4/84. You stupid mfer.

Look, I am all for these guys getting as much as possible but in reality, you gotta be realistic about your abilities and what's your true value. 

John, you are a 5/100 guy like Jarrett Allen. You two have literally the same f***ing impact. That said, Atlanta would be stupid to give you 5 years when they have Hunter and Young. So you get 4/80. I can understand you fighting for 4/90. I know like hell I would but smart. You f***ing opt into the QC. Before you know it, JJ is fighting for your spot and Okongwu as well. Hunter as well. You gotta be smart about this shit.

Dennis dumbass really mucked up the bag.

Nobody screwed up worse than Victor Oladipo. John will still get a relatively nice contract. Oladipo might be getting an MLE. 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Nobody screwed up worse than Victor Oladipo. John will still get a relatively nice contract. Oladipo might be getting an MLE. 

He Boogie Cousins himself 

[RedDawg#8]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Dennis Schröder and John Collins are the two most delusional Hawks former or past outside of Smoove I've ever seen and to be honest, worse than Smoove. 

John, you just f***ing good bro. Your not close to all star level even in a bad situation. You get no votes from nobody. But you think you are 5/120 good? Are you out of your f***ing mind! 

Dennis turned down 4/84. You stupid mfer.

Look, I am all for these guys getting as much as possible but in reality, you gotta be realistic about your abilities and what's your true value. 

John, you are a 5/100 guy like Jarrett Allen. You two have literally the same f***ing impact. That said, Atlanta would be stupid to give you 5 years when they have Hunter and Young. So you get 4/80. I can understand you fighting for 4/90. I know like hell I would but smart. You f***ing opt into the QC. Before you know it, JJ is fighting for your spot and Okongwu as well. Hunter as well. You gotta be smart about this shit.

Dennis dumbass really mucked up the bag.

You go way too hard sometimes man. It's so not even that serious.

Let him live. If he truly isn't worth the money, and its so obvious and plain for all to see, then why get so worked up about it to begin with?

 The fact is, it's NOT that cut and dry, and his worth is subjective, and the potential for a cash grab is totally possible.

That's the only reason it rubs you so wrong. Because it's very possible that someone gives him the money you say he can't get, and that causes consternation.

Closed mouths never get fed. You can't expect him to just accept the money that will always be there and never try to attain more. He and the team may disagree on a number, but they appear to be in a very healthy place as far as respect goes. And that's why I take issue with your constant rants against him. He is not in front of the camera screaming "Show me the money!!" He is handling his business behind the scenes, like a professional, and lobbying for what he wants, like a professional.

He has that right. And the team has the right to say no, and other teams have the right to say yes or no, and we have the right to counter offer.

It's just business. No need to drag a guy who's actions disagree with your assessment of him. He is 23 years old, let him live and learn. Business will take care of itself. And if you are right about him, you have nothing to worry about.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

No offense but this is garbage. He don't fit the prototype to be more valuable to anyone than these two. He's more important than Cam if Cam is playing like shit but if Cam is just decent, he's massively more valuable than JC. JCs player type is Meh.

 

JC is essentially the new Paul Millsap.

Reliable.  Steady.  Efficient.  And still progressing toward being an all-star player.

 

The other two have crazy potential, but are neither reliable nor steady, due to injuries, streakiness, youth, etc.

People get excited with their play, but have yet to see more than 2 months of consistency out of either guy.

 

JC is also the best compliment to Trae, because he's the lob threat at the rim.  Sign him, and Trae has this pick and roll option for the next 5 years.  Capela, on the other hand, may not have 5 great years left in him.  Meanwhile, Collins won't even be 30 yet.

 

 

[nathan2331]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

JC is essentially the new Paul Millsap.

Reliable.  Steady.  Efficient.  And still progressing toward being an all-star player.

 

The other two have crazy potential, but are neither reliable nor steady, due to injuries, streakiness, youth, etc.

People get excited with their play, but have yet to see more than 2 months of consistency out of either guy.

 

JC is also the best compliment to Trae, because he's the lob threat at the rim.  Sign him, and Trae has this pick and roll option for the next 5 years.  Capela, on the other hand, may not have 5 great years left in him.  Meanwhile, Collins won't even be 30 yet.

 

 

John is unique, but his shortcomings do put a cap on what we should be paying him. His lack of self creation means he only gets looks whenever teammates create an opportunity for him. I'll give him credit for hitting those mid-range jumpers in the playoffs, but besides that he's not comfortable creating his own offense. That combined with his lack of versatility on defense results in a player who's not worth a max. I don't mind him finding the best offer for himself in free agency, but I hope he realizes Atlanta is the best situation for him as a player. On the numbers that have been reported, he should have put pen to paper if he had an offer for 5yrs/120m. That is a contract that shows how much the team values you.

[NBASupes]

16 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

JC is essentially the new Paul Millsap.

Reliable.  Steady.  Efficient.  And still progressing toward being an all-star player.

 

The other two have crazy potential, but are neither reliable nor steady, due to injuries, streakiness, youth, etc.

People get excited with their play, but have yet to see more than 2 months of consistency out of either guy.

 

JC is also the best compliment to Trae, because he's the lob threat at the rim.  Sign him, and Trae has this pick and roll option for the next 5 years.  Capela, on the other hand, may not have 5 great years left in him.  Meanwhile, Collins won't even be 30 yet.

 

 

He's clearly better than Sap at this stage but Sap had more potential and became very good. Sap size always helped him on the boards, defensively, and within the paint with his skill. Sap always was switchable defensively but Sap finally evolved when he added range. JC is already at his peak. I don't see much room to grow. His frame is wing like. He doesn't have a natural feel for handling the ball or passing the ball. He has a Karl Malonesque game but at 230. Karl was 260 and his frame was Greek god like coming into the NBA. 

I just don't see it. Even this year, for all of his defensive improvements. We still had to hide him in the playoffs. He still doesn't have a position to guard against quality teams. He's too flawed like Schröder. They do a lot of good but they are capped.

Edited August 3, 2021 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

To me, Lauri is the Sap. JC is like Smoove. 

[nathan2331]

Just now, NBASupes said:

To me, Lauri is the Sap. JC is like Smoove. 

I don't even know how you make that comparison. As bad as Collins handle is, if we used him like a #2 option, he'd still be productive. We wouldn't be a better team for it, but Collins could put up bigger numbers. Chicago has given Markkanen the oppurtunity to play second fiddle to LaVine and he floundered. Last year when Collins had his biggest role on the team, he gave us nearly 22 and 10. You've been right about Collins limitations, but he's better today than Sap was when we signed him.

[NBASupes]

18 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

You go way too hard sometimes man. It's so not even that serious.

Let him live. If he truly isn't worth the money, and its so obvious and plain for all to see, then why get so worked up about it to begin with?

 The fact is, it's NOT that cut and dry, and his worth is subjective, and the potential for a cash grab is totally possible.

That's the only reason it rubs you so wrong. Because it's very possible that someone gives him the money you say he can't get, and that causes consternation.

Closed mouths never get fed. You can't expect him to just accept the money that will always be there and never try to attain more. He and the team may disagree on a number, but they appear to be in a very healthy place as far as respect goes. And that's why I take issue with your constant rants against him. He is not in front of the camera screaming "Show me the money!!" He is handling his business behind the scenes, like a professional, and lobbying for what he wants, like a professional.

He has that right. And the team has the right to say no, and other teams have the right to say yes or no, and we have the right to counter offer.

It's just business. No need to drag a guy who's actions disagree with your assessment of him. He is 23 years old, let him live and learn. Business will take care of itself. And if you are right about him, you have nothing to worry about.

 

I am being who I always am, love it or hate it. 

Because I am a passionate Hawk fan. I've always been passionate. That's who I am. Nothing you say will ever change that. 

Is it really subjective? Is it? He's still available in Day 2 and there is no real interest from the Spurs who are the only team with money left. Schulz said the one thing that I keep saying, his camp has an overinflated view of him. This reminds me of Dennis who camp also had an overinflated view of him. Is that wrong or is that SuBJecTivE? 

Bro, if the Hawk dumbass want to give him crazy money, let them. The consequences will be lethal. Awful GMing is so 2017. Even the guys people think suck now are still miles better than the avg in 2017. 

It's my opinion, I can say what I want to say just like you. This is a message board, post as you like. 

He does have that right and I have to right to tell him, he's a dumbass. Sorry, but I can't be an cashier at Wal-Mart and think because I received employee of the month, I deserve six figures. It's called understanding your worth and value. He's overvaluing himself and it costing him more money than he could have received already. He's making an mistake. 

It's called bad business. I have the right to call it out as he's in a public arena and I am public supporter. You can call it out as well. When I said, Al Horford should get the max and only a few on here agreed with me, did that mean I can tell them to shut the hell up, it's just business, if he wants it, he should ask. No, they were sharing an opinion. I can't change their opinion at all. It's their opinion. 

[KB21]

Per Sam Amick, John has a 5 year, $125 million offer on the table from Atlanta.

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

I don't even know how you make that comparison. As bad as Collins handle is, if we used him like a #2 option, he'd still be productive. We wouldn't be a better team for it, but Collins could put up bigger numbers. Chicago has given Markkanen the oppurtunity to play second fiddle to LaVine and he floundered. Last year when Collins had his biggest role on the team, he gave us nearly 22 and 10. You've been right about Collins limitations, but he's better today than Sap was when we signed him.

Basically, Lauri is just decent. Sap was at this stage but Lauri has a lot more potential. He's can create his own shot. He can dribble. He can pass. He has a good feel but his defense is bad. Real bad. His team defense is okay, he understands positoning at a high level but he doesn't move his feet well. He's not playing up to his level which is like Sap in Utah. JC is playing at his peak level. He's in the optimal situation. Anyone paying JC outside of Atlanta is risking putting him in a situation far less ideal which could make him less productive and impactful while being overpaid. 

Lauri goes to San Antonio. They have no #1 option. He's it by default. Poethl is one of the best defensive centers in the NBA. Lauri job defensively is a lot easier. He's getting the touches. Now he's performing like a legit All Star. His value becomes All Star level when right now, he's just decent. JC like Smoove, could leave Atlanta as he left for DET and his valued dropped like a rock when you don't have defensive minded wings or Al Horford to cover for your risks and mistakes. 

Basically, Lauri has a lot more upside than JC outside of Atlanta where Lauri is not in a optimal spot but JC is. 

Whenever you have a player who's in his optimal, you want to keep him but JC has to realize that and take a realistic pay. Especially considering, he's not that good. 

[GameTime]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Per Sam Amick, John has a 5 year, $125 million offer on the table from Atlanta.

 

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Per Sam Amick, John has a 5 year, $125 million offer on the table from Atlanta.

https://theathletic.com/live-blogs/2021-nba-free-agency-live-updates-news-analysis-trades/Sv5IIlL9fSee

Delusional cat. That's a clear overpay. 

[NBASupes]

 

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

 

Very good news for us.

[RedDawg#8]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

 

Bulls not playing games man, they been getting busy since the trade deadline

[Sothron]

Bulls are sending the Spurs T. young and other stuff for Derozan. I'm guessing this means the Spurs are out on Collins?

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Sothron said:

Bulls are sending the Spurs T. young and other stuff for Derozan. I'm guessing this means the Spurs are out on Collins?

Young is set to make $14M next season so by my math that takes their $30M cap space and drops it to $16M.

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Bulls are sending the Spurs T. young and other stuff for Derozan. I'm guessing this means the Spurs are out on Collins?

DeRozan is getting 3yrs/$85 million.  That's $28 mil per...so yes.  They are taking back Thad for $14 mil