8/4 UPDATE: Collins to sign $125 million deal with the Hawks per Woj

[bleachkit]

Just now, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Name an instance in which a team reportedly made an offer, then offered less days later?  Specifically a high dollar offer.

If it happened, I want to see the circumstances around it.

 

What do you mean? This happens all the time when guys wait too long and the money dries up. Why do you think the big money deals usually happen day one? Agents know time is generally not on your side, unless you are a bonafide max guy that can teams will wait on. 

[Watchman]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Collins problem is he's a good player that wants to be paid like a great player. Sacramento made that mistake with Buddy and they can't even get rid of him because bad teams don't want him and good teams barely have a need for him and as you saw with the Lakers. Teams pivot asap. 

Siakam is overpaid but he's a very good player paid like a great player. You can find deals for him. 

Gallo is a solid player paid like a good player, you can find deals for him. 

You can't pay someone double of what they are worth. That's an instant toxic contract. Hard for bad teams to get rid of. Impossible for good teams because they general don't want to part with their best assets.

JC is learning that NBA GMs are learning from past mistakes.

Tell that to Miami.  There is no way Jimmy Butler is worth $46 million a year.  Collins is a bargain compared to Butler.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Watchman said:

Tell that to Miami.  There is no way Jimmy Butler is worth $46 million a year.  Collins is a bargain compared to Butler.

Stop comparing ballers who put teams on their back to JC

[bleachkit]

4 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Tell that to Miami.  There is no way Jimmy Butler is worth $46 million a year.  Collins is a bargain compared to Butler.

He's an RFA. Go get an offer. 

[Watchman]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Depends how they framed the offer in the first place.  A common negotiating tactic would be to make the offer but have it come off the table the moment he starts visiting other teams.  Basically you say "We think the $90M/4 years we offered was a fair offer.  While you rejected that, we really want you so much that we are now willing to offer $125M over 5 years but that offer is conditioned on us agreeing now and you not going to other teams to try to trump it.  We've got no problem if you want to talk to other teams but then that $125M is off the table.  When  you start talking to other teams, you can force our hand with an offer sheet but you may also find that the market isn't willing to match our $25M/per offer in which case that is the risk you are taking.  If the market turns out to be more than $25M per, you'll come back with that offer and we will be informed by the market and can match it or not.  If the market turns out to be less, we'll come back and talk some more informed by that market reality.  We want to keep you for the long term and hope you'll take the $125M right here and right now.  Let us know what you decide." 

Gallinari money is not a fair offer for Collins.  Collins is on the upswing and Gallinari is on the downswing.  I certainly understand how Collins would be offended at a 4 year $90 million offer.

[Watchman]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Stop comparing ballers who put teams on their back to JC

He must be a hunchback then.  He didn't carry them very far this year, did he?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

10 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

What do you mean? This happens all the time when guys wait too long and the money dries up. Why do you think the big money deals usually happen day one? Agents know time is generally not on your side, unless you are a bonafide max guy that can teams will wait on. 

 

I'll ask again.  Name an instance where a guy was offered more money at the start of free agency . . the money dries up . . and the team turned around and offered him less?

[bleachkit]

4 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Gallinari money is not a fair offer for Collins.  Collins is on the upswing and Gallinari is on the downswing.  I certainly understand how Collins would be offended at a 4 year $90 million offer.

He's an RFA. Hawks made an offer. He declined it. Now he can find an offer on the market. If there isn't an offer to his liking, then I don't know what to say. 

[sillent]

If John took over when Trae went down and willed us to the finals or passed to a chip, I would completely understand his max demands.

If John really is being this difficult than I would still max him out if it came to that.

I expect/expected him to be true to his word "near max money" and "play with one team for life" but if he fights the $125 deal I would give him $127 - the max.

He'd also then become more trade bait in my eyes and would more than likely not make it pass next season. 

I know he knows we need to make the best deals possible in order to keep as much of our team together as possible.

I would keep him this season and see if running it back could help us win it all but win it or not he may still have to go after.

I would than do a sign and trade possibly having to give up John,Gallo and maybe Kev/Bogi for an unhappy Zion. He hinted he wanted to come here during the draft lottery. Also he gets to play with Cam and guys like Trae and Sharife making his job easy.

Not to mention he'd love the A and he'd be our second coming of Nique.

I'm hoping John excepts the deal on the table so we can continue building our team as deep as possible but if not, I hope John knows it's just a matter of time.

Honestly I'd hate to see JC's career turn into Stephon Marbury or even Shawn Kemp without Gary. He's suffered the bad years with us and now he's in position to do what vets around the league take pay cuts for. If this was going to be his last or only big contract I'd understand but honestly John will be in his prime by the time this contract is up and that should definitely be a big pay day.

If you are who you say/think you are stay the course and prove it a few more yrs. Be in contention for the accolades on a contending team.

 

Trying to get all he can now without all the accolades (Allstar, All NBA, something) scares teams.

I know I'd be scared like does he think his game will fade?? Can we build with him being the focal point and a large contract? Does he care about winning or money??

Teams are looking more for Giannis, Dame, Beal types over the young Carmelo's that would take the money before taking a cut to build the best team. That's what cost him from being a Heatle. Now he's a mercenary for a ring and one many hesitate to higher.

There's so many ways you could flip $125 mil outside of just basketball.  Endorsements, investments, businesses, real estate and etc...

Somebody please tell John don't blow your chance to do something special with a team many may wish to be back on ( see Paul Millsap, Lou and company lol). 

The ultimate goal is to be a winner and win a championship. Please don't lose focus. The extra $5mil he can get as a max can easily be recouped (in the nba world) because people buy into winners. Please John do not make a greedy looking move now that will be regrettable in hindsight.

If this isn't a great situation for him than what is??? If he thinks Trae is a shadow imagine the shadow Luka will cast on him. If he's tired of losing Spurs definitely won't be the best option and why not read the rewards of seeing the other side here? At this point Zion might be the only one I'd sign and trade him for and I know that's not currently going to happen.

It's just baffling and a bad look overall in my opinion when the offer is well over the 90mil original and he stated he wasn't trying to get a max but a near max and that he wants to be a Hawk for life.

Now is definitely the time to prove it especially since we no longer have Bruno or Knight. The space has been cleared for the most part. Don't over think the opportunity. 

 

[Watchman]

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

22.5 per is perfect, especially descending. 

Gallinari money is an insult for Collins.

[Peoriabird]

No need to continue to whine about the situation.  It will get worked out.

[GameTime]

 

[JTB]

2 hours ago, bleachkit said:

He's an RFA. Hawks made an offer. He declined it. Now he can find an offer on the market. If there isn't an offer to his liking, then I don't know what to say. 

Lol my question is what happens when he don’t find shit and comes back to the hawks looking for that 5 year 125 mil? ….can schlenk pull it and give him 4 year 90 mil? Lol….that would he savage! Lol

 

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, GameTime said:

 

"nothing to SQUAWK about". Was Schultz taking a subtle shot at us?

[bleachkit]

8 minutes ago, JTB said:

Lol my question is what happens when he don’t find shit and comes back to the hawks looking for that 5 year 125 mil? ….can schlenk pull it and give him 4 year 90 mil? Lol….that would he savage! Lol

 

Yes of course they can. Others here feel the Hawks should keep their above market deal for the sake of good will. I personally disagree, you over played your hand and it's gonna cost you. It's not personal, it's business. 

Edited August 4, 2021 by bleachkit

[kg01]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Stop comparing ballers who put teams on their back to JC

Is that what butler did?  Interesting.  I suppose Tyler herro is prime Wade too?

[FL_BRYANT]

It behooves both the HAWKS and JC to make a deal. I don't think they should over pay him and I don't think they can afford to pass him off if they want to run it back with him. They probably need each other.  I wish JC was tougher.

[sillent]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

No need to continue to whine about the situation.  It will get worked out.

It's still looking a little shaky from a relationship standpoint but I agree we are the best option for him in every possible way. 

[JTB]

42 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Yes of course they can. Others here feel the Hawks should keep their above market deal for the sake of good will. I personally disagree, you over played your hand and it's gonna cost you. It's not personal, it's business. 

Right! That’s how life works for everyone else . I’m all for what you’re saying …sake of good my ass…this is real life!

I like jc and want him back but I thought 4/90 was fair but after seeing the free agent market with other bigs I believe 5/110 is a extremely fair deal.

[bleachkit]

The longer this goes on the more you would have to think this favors the Hawks. Who is going to suddenly offer JC a monster deal?