CAM REDDISH TO NY FOR KEVIN KNOX AND FIRST!?!

[SalvorMallow]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I guess.  If this is true it seems like a very novel strategy compared to what other teams do with malcontents.  If i'm on the Hawks now maybe i'm happy Cam is gone but i'm also seeing that a guy who supposedly wasn't professional and didn't try to be part of the team gets what he wants.  (i'm way out in left field now. lol).   If you're a current player does that seem like a good organization?

JC seems not that happy.  Why wouldn't he say 'get me to the Warriors or Lakers or Bulls pronto.'

I bet the players care about winning first, they aren't thinking that Cam got what he wanted. Getting Cam off the team was an addition by subtraction, at least for this season. How it will looking going forward remains to be seen. 

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I'm not 100% sold on the "bad player" label.

I am. He's trash. At best, he's Ben McLemore level which is semi productive trash. It's hard to play guys who lack the triple play. 

BBIQ all around 

Feel for the game

Awareness

You can deal with one, and depending on the talent, two but all three is when you get the guys who are min salary guys in the scrap heap. 

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

I bet the players care about winning first, they aren't thinking that Cam got what he wanted. Getting Cam off the team was an addition by subtraction, at least for this season. How it will looking going forward remains to be seen. 

Nothing you say matters. They are emotional right now and will find some other reason to fall off the deep end.

[Wretch]

40 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Your making excuses for TS. You are saying this is the best option when this is an extremely risky option because trades are judged on what you do moving forward, not in the past. Just because KG and Paul Pierce was HOF and ATGs doesn't mean Brooklyn didn't get taken to the woodshed by Boston. Even with the Joe Johnson deal to Brooklyn. Atlanta didn't even win that deal. It's fair to say, if Atlanta could do it over, maybe there was other ways to improve and just change up the style of play with Bud and Al and SnT Smoove for a TPE. Use that TPE to get Sap. Carroll was signed under the MLE. Now you wouldn't have gotten Korver but you could have had 

Teague

Iso Joe

Carroll

Sap

Horford

That would have changed our ceiling. So did the Iso Joe trade work for Atlanta? It didn't. Because the value they got for Joe, never matriculated. Ferry was terrible at drafting and Joe in that system would have pushed us to the top and gave us two years of contending, and maybe three if Al never torn his pec. 

You don't trade extremely talented players for middling assets. protected lottery picks are middling assets. There is a major gap in the NBA from 10-14 range to 15-20 range in terms of trade value. Massive gap. If you traded Cam for that, the value would be better for sure but as it stands, it's a bad deal. Because the risk is much higher than the reward. If Portland could do it all over again, they would have never traded JO for Dale Davis. It was a deal that ended an era and began a new one elsewhere. Players with Cam talent as well as Zo's, you just keep them till you officially know, hey, I maxed this guy out. Atlanta didn't do that here. We all know that, it's up to you if you want to accept it or not. 

Let's get some stuff out of the way before I say this to all the people going back and forth with @NBASupes

• We all understand that there were things going on behind the scenes
• We have been working on moving Cam for a long time
• We need better chemistry on the court and this may be addition by subtraction
• The Hawks needed to get something for him and got something for him
• If we could have gotten better offers, we would have
• This may not be the final move

Add to that list whatever sensible point you want, we get it.  We got it as soon as things started coming to light.  No need to circle back there.  The issue here is you guys are glossing over the horrible precedent for how deals like this can go historically bad.  We don't want to be that team.  God forbid Cam becomes a sensation in New York - this franchise will hear about it for decades to come LONG after Travis Schlenk is fired.  We want to be 1000% sure there was nothing else we could do before we dump a talent like that. 

I'm not even 10% sure this is the best we could do.  Without a follow up deal, this looks like a panic/frustration move.  My God, to New York....  Not only do you set yourself up for a ghost that could haunt your franchise for all eternity, you sent him to NEW YORK!?  You put him in your path.  Make it make sense!  

I can't... I can't, can't, can't... I just can't get my mind around it.  How do you not get a HIGHLY protected FRP any day of the week for Cam Reddish!?  I don't see the urgency to do this right now.  My hope here is that Cam is simply a mediocre talent that isn't likely to achieve his potential AND that there is a follow up to this.  Otherwise, this could add to a legacy of incompetency that has kept our franchise on a middling treadmill for decades.

42 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

At the end of the day i think there are a lot of question marks about what went down with Cam the last 3 years.   But to me, unless you are convinced he's a bust, you don't ship him to the Knicks.    If he becomes even a solid player for the Knicks it just further damages our reputation in the NBA.   If he does it in Sacramento or Portland or hell even Indy no one cares.  

Think how many times we're going to hear "can't believe hawks gave up on this guy" from the NY sports media (which is all national nba media) every time Cam has a dunk or scores 15 points or gets a steal.  

Man, think about hearing it from Georgia sports fans for the next 30 years........  I'd have put Cam in a package for a superstar.  Even as a throw in you can still say, "No, they got <star-player> for him and they went to the ECF's and even the finals."  

Get rid of the guy sure and get something, but CYA man....................................................................

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

I bet the players care about winning first, they aren't thinking that Cam got what he wanted. Getting Cam off the team was an addition by subtraction, at least for this season. How it will looking going forward remains to be seen. 

Players are self interested for the most part as well as organizations. 

[marco102]

6 minutes ago, Wretch said:

Let's get some stuff out of the way before I say this to all the people going back and forth with @NBASupes

• We all understand that there were things going on behind the scenes
• We have been working on moving Cam for a long time
• We need better chemistry on the court and this may be addition by subtraction
• The Hawks needed to get something for him and got something for him
• If we could have gotten better offers, we would have
• This may not be the final move

Add to that list whatever sensible point you want, we get it.  We got it as soon as things started coming to light.  No need to circle back there.  The issue here is you guys are glossing over the horrible precedent for how deals like this can go historically bad.  We don't want to be that team.  God forbid Cam becomes a sensation in New York - this franchise will hear about it for decades to come LONG after Travis Schlenk is fired.  We want to be 1000% sure there was nothing else we could do before we dump a talent like that. 

I'm not even 10% sure this is the best we could do.  Without a follow up deal, this looks like a panic/frustration move.  My God, to New York....  Not only do you set yourself up for a ghost that could haunt your franchise for all eternity, you sent him to NEW YORK!?  You put him in your path.  Make it make sense!  

I can't... I can't, can't, can't... I just can't get my mind around it.  How do you not get a HIGHLY protected FRP any day of the week for Cam Reddish!?  I don't see the urgency to do this right now.  My hope here is that Cam is simply a mediocre talent that isn't likely to achieve his potential AND that there is a follow up to this.  Otherwise, this could add to a legacy of incompetency that has kept our franchise on a middling treadmill for decades.

Man, think about hearing it from Georgia sports fans for the next 30 years........  I'd have put Cam in a package for a superstar.  Even as a throw in you can still say, "No, they got <star-player> for him and they went to the ECF's and even the finals."  

Get rid of the guy sure and get something, but CYA man....................................................................

Okay, we are playing the, what if game.

What if Cam goes to NY stays inefficient, terrible on D and doesn't get playing time because of Thibs being Thibs. We use the pick in the off season to get Brandon Ingram, KAT, SGA, or some other impact player and the team goes on to win a championship. 

No one will care about Cam or the trade.

Edited January 14, 2022 by marco102

[SalvorMallow]

3 minutes ago, Wretch said:

Let's get some stuff out of the way before I say this to all the people going back and forth with @NBASupes

• We all understand that there were things going on behind the scenes
• We have been working on moving Cam for a long time
• We need better chemistry on the court and this may be addition by subtraction
• The Hawks needed to get something for him and got something for him
• If we could have gotten better offers, we would have
• This may not be the final move

Add to that list whatever sensible point you want, we get it.  We got it as soon as things started coming to light.  No need to circle back there.  The issue here is you guys are glossing over the horrible precedent for how deals like this can go historically bad.  We don't want to be that team.  God forbid Cam becomes a sensation in New York - this franchise will hear about it for decades to come LONG after Travis Schlenk is fired.  We want to be 1000% sure there was nothing else we could do before we dump a talent like that. 

I'm not even 10% sure this is the best we could do.  Without a follow up deal, this looks like a panic/frustration move.  My God, to New York....  Not only do you set yourself up for a ghost that could haunt your franchise for all eternity, you sent him to NEW YORK!?  You put him in your path.  Make it make sense!  

I can't... I can't, can't, can't... I just can't get my mind around it.  How do you not get a HIGHLY protected FRP any day of the week for Cam Reddish!?  I don't see the urgency to do this right now.  My hope here is that Cam is simply a mediocre talent that isn't likely to achieve his potential AND that there is a follow up to this.  Otherwise, this could add to a legacy of incompetency that has kept our franchise on a middling treadmill for decades.

Man, think about hearing it from Georgia sports fans for the next 30 years........  I'd have put Cam in a package for a superstar.  Even as a throw in you can still say, "No, they got <star-player> for him and they went to the ECF's and even the finals."  

Get rid of the guy sure and get something, but CYA man....................................................................

It's easy enough to say we could have gotten a better value out of him, but there just weren't better offers according to every report Ive read about this deal. Letting him play more in a season where he is way less productive overall than even his rookie year and is one of the worst defenders in the league isn't going to increase his value any. 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

Are you describing Knox or Reddish, because this is exactly how other teams fan bases describe Reddish

This is why you are here propping up the trade. You think Cam is ass. This post just validates what I already knew about you. 

 

[BangHolman]

This is like reading 'The Real Housewives of Hawk Squawk' right now, so fu*king dramatic. *eats popcorn*

[JeffS17]

Just now, NBASupes said:

This is why you are here propping up the trade. You think Cam is ass. This post just validates what I already knew about you. 

Foot to neck season is coming 

Been rooting for Cam since he was drafted, anyone that reads the game threads can attest to that.  But at the end of the day, I'm a Hawks fan, not a Cam Reddish fan.  

[macdaddy]

9 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Well maybe we should just trade everyone and get g league players since this one trade f***ed us up so badly.

I mean who said that?   I realize there are multiple different arguments going on here.  All i'm saying is that right now this doesn't look like a good trade.   That doesn't mean it isnt and it doesn't mean we have any idea what it means for the Hawks. 

You're saying this is without a doubt a great thing because Cam was some kind of major locker room problem and a bust.  I'm saying it's also possible that this is a bad thing

Travis maybe a genius on this i don't know.   But when you have 100% agreement that you lost the trade then the optics aren't good.  And perception matters for something right? 

[Plainview1981]

Schlenk is a failure.... He drafted the lesser player in Trae, he drafted Cam with the 10th pick and then trades him for a worthless late first rounder before his rookie contract is up, Kevin Huerter is only so so at best. Hunter hasn't done much.

Cap ended up being good in the short term, but he now is paid more than he is worth.

Not very impressive.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

It's easy enough to say we could have gotten a better value out of him, but there just weren't better offers according to every report Ive read about this deal. Letting him play more in a season where he is way less productive overall than even his rookie year and is one of the worst defenders in the league isn't going to increase his value any. 

You dont do a deal without getting value that means that deal can't hurt you. 

[h4wkfan]

20 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Have you ever followed the NBA? There are a lot of teams with guys who want out where the team's perception is great. 

How about this. When you have a player who is grumbling about their role. Not buying into their role on the team, and is out to get theirs. That absolutely has an impact on perception. IN PARTICULAR, the players currently committed to the team. 
 

Side note. If schlenk has such a great eye for talent. And he is willing to give reddish up for a mid first. To me, that says schlenk believes reddish will never reach his ceiling. If he thought cam could, others would be getting traded. 
 

look man, I’m not happy that reddish is gone. But the world isn’t ending. A lot of advanced metrics suggest he hasn’t been a positive on the court this year.
 

It is what it is. if schlenk is wrong, that’ll be the final chapter in his book as atl gm. 

[SalvorMallow]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

This is why you are here propping up the trade. You think Cam is ass. This post just validates what I already knew about you. 

Foot to neck season is coming 

Cam is exactly what we all knew he would be. Superstar ceiling fringe rotation floor and that eval hasn't changed at all based on his three years in the league. 

[JayBirdHawk]

42 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The reports were that the Lakers were in heavy pursuit of Cam.

I wonder what the offer was?

2 second round picks.

[Final_quest]

12 minutes ago, thecampster said:

So let me spin this a tad.

1. Assuming we resurrect Knox's career and morphs into a 15-20 minute per game solid role player.

2. Assuming Knox resigns here for a more than Solo, less than midlevel player salary (say $5 million/per).

3. Assuming Cam remains an 11 ppg type of player with good 1v1 but bad team defense but extends for $15 million + in the offseason.

Is this then a good trade?

If Knox makes his teammates happy, his production is only mildly less than Cam's but provides better team defense and our better players get their desired shots, opportunities....is this a good trade? If it also frees up $10 million/year in salary down the road per year is it a good trade?

I don't even think we need to resurrect Knox.  Getting a first for Cam before being in a position where he's asking for $15-20M per year is enough.  Plus he is a net negative player.  We are much better without him, see below.  
His impact numbers this season are glaringly awful. While the Hawks have been outscored on the season, they are +5.7 points per 100 possessions in the minutes Reddish isn’t on the court. When he plays, they are -10.0 per 100; no other Hawk comes close to matching this difference. If you’re wondering, it’s not dependent on Trae Young either; units with Young and Reddish have been squashed by -13.4 points per 100.

The money issue takes us to the other motivating factor here: With the Hawks having already extended or re-signed Young, John Collins, Kevin Huerter and Capela, it became increasingly likely that one of their other young players would have to move on.

 

[Wretch]

6 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Okay, we are playing the, what if game.

What if Cam goes to NY stays inefficient, terrible on D and doesn't get playing time because of Thibs being Thibs. We use the pick in the off season to get Brandon Ingram, KAT, SGA, or some other impact player and the team goes on the in a championship. 

No one will care about Cam or the trade.

6 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

It's easy enough to say we could have gotten a better value out of him, but there just weren't better offers according to every report Ive read about this deal. Letting him play more in a season where he is way less productive overall than even his rookie year and is one of the worst defenders in the league isn't going to increase his value any. 

Look, I don't disagree with either of you guys.  I'm NOT saying we could get BETTER value for him right now.  Not saying that at all, I AM saying, you can get that value any day of the week.  I am also saying that if THIS is the best you get, you have to CYA and make it look better for the franchise's sake.  I would rather have gambled this all the way through the draft and free agency...  Even if you packaged him and our pick to move up, you don't want this to haunt the franchise.  It's not "what if, what if, what if..."  It's happened.  Many times.

This deal, right now...?  This isn't the deal and SURELY not to NY under any circumstances.  I'm not a fool.  I've been watching this game for going on 4 decades.  I liked Cam, but I have no problems with us getting rid of him with the info that's come out.  This ain't it though.  This is just not it.  Not unless there is something else coming or if Knox was the target or if our coaches/players/scouts have weighed in and are sure this guy isn't going to go off. 

This could be really bad and if history is of any use, we take a different route and hide him in a different (and better) trade.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

Been rooting for Cam since he was drafted, anyone that reads the game threads can attest to that.  But at the end of the day, I'm a Hawks fan, not a Cam Reddish fan.  

Stop it! That's not how you are behaving and you even voted you felt this was fair deal. Don't try to play both sides of the fence. Nationally, most think Atlanta got raped in the deal. Most of the post on reddit are Atlanta got raped in the deal. Saying Knox in the same sentence as Reddish in terms of trash just validates your true feelings on Reddish. 

If you are Hawks fan, you know this was a disaster of a deal. Dont use I am a Hawks fan as a blanket to cover yourself from criticism. 

[Final_quest]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Foot to neck season is coming 

What the hell?  Someone disagrees with you and you threaten them?  You are completely unhinged.  Basketball is for fun and entertainment.  Get a grip.  It's just an opinion about a professional athlete.