CAM REDDISH TO NY FOR KEVIN KNOX AND FIRST!?!

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

Cam was the 10th pick from a stacked draft and we just traded him for a future pick in the 20s. 

A useful player and/or better pick is what i was expecting.

Based on his time with the Hawks, a pick in the 20s is probably fair value. He is not an established player, he is still an upside play three years in. 

[JeffS17]

43 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It's crazy how you are the voice of reason on this. A lot of these Hawks fans tell themselves all of this negative about Cam to make themselves feel better about an awful trade. We did this when we drafted Marvin and Shelden. We did this when we traded initially traded Nique. This is what fans do till reality hits. 

I don't and never have bashed players who basically get hit pieces wrote on them as soon as they leave regardless of willingly or unwillingly. Atlanta been had this man on the trade block for over a year but he's the one with the hit piece written about him from someone who really never cared for him or anyone on the Hawks outside of JC and Baze in the first place. 

"Hawk fans" are disappointing me in this thread at this time. I could put you on the trade block, basically upheave your life constantly not knowing where you will be and come out as the good guy. Delusions of a fanbase you ask me. At least for Cam, his little brother plays in Albany, NY so he's gonna have fam close by. 

Cam wanted out.  He asked out.  What do you want of Travis?  Cam's value will only go down further and further the longer we hold him, especially since teams know he doesn't want to be here.  Cam clearly didn't want to develop into a plus-player while he worked on his game.  He could have taken the Jaylen Brown approach and been a very good 3&D guy while working on other aspects of his offensive game, but he didn't want to commit to playing defense and didn't want to be a spot up shooter. 

So genuinely asking, what would you have done if you were Travis Schlenk?

[macdaddy]

11 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Cam wanted out.  He asked out.  What do you want of Travis?  Cam's value will only go down further and further the longer we hold him, especially since teams know he doesn't want to be here.  Cam clearly didn't want to develop into a plus-player while he worked on his game.  He could have taken the Jaylen Brown approach and been a very good 3&D guy while working on other aspects of his offensive game, but he didn't want to commit to playing defense and didn't want to be a spot up shooter. 

So genuinely asking, what would you have done if you were Travis Schlenk?

Wait.  It's hard to imagine that the offers would be worse than this in the offseason.  I'm just not sure what we've accomplished here.   Are the Hawks better?  

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

Wait.  It's hard to imagine that the offers would be worse than this in the offseason.  I'm just not sure what we've accomplished here.   Are the Hawks better?  

No we are not better.   You are right, offseason offers would have been better.   Lakers pick, Memphis pick, even NY pick.

Right now, NY is laughing at us because we folded like a tent. 

Did you know that Cam led the team in deflections?

Today we are weaker...  Our lockerroom better be better. 

 

[Sothron]

From the Athletic:

Why did the Hawks give up on Reddish so soon?

This is one question a lot of Hawks fans will want the answer to because he was a fan favorite in Atlanta. And the answer is simple:

Reddish didn’t want to be with the team anymore. He requested out several months ago, sources say, and most players knew he didn’t want to be there, which led to awkwardness inside the locker room.

The Hawks were going to trade Reddish as soon as a team met their asking price, and the Knicks were that team.

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

Wait.  It's hard to imagine that the offers would be worse than this in the offseason.  I'm just not sure what we've accomplished here.   Are the Hawks better?  

No, but we got a first round pick. He didn't want to be here, and injuries and inconsistent play reduced his value. No way would we get a top 10 pick for him, that's just not his value. 

[JeffS17]

9 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Wait.  It's hard to imagine that the offers would be worse than this in the offseason.  I'm just not sure what we've accomplished here.   Are the Hawks better?  

We've removed a player that clearly refused to play within his defined role, wasn't happy, and seemingly causing some tension in the locker room because of the way he was playing (selfishly).

We also removed the player that was taking the 5th most shots on the team and had the worst net rating, so yes, we're literally better now by playing other guys instead of Cam... I would have loved for the situation to have been better, but I respect Travis for getting Cam into a situation that he wants to be in rather than hold him hostage for longer.  That's how you build a good reputation with other players as well.

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

We've removed a player that clearly refused to play within his defined role, wasn't happy, and seemingly causing some tension in the locker room because of the way he was playing (selfishly).

We also removed the player that was taking the 5th most shots on the team and had the worst net rating, so yes, we're literally better now by playing other guys instead of Cam... I would have loved for the situation to have been better, but I respect Travis for getting Cam into a situation that he wants to be in rather than hold him hostage for longer.  That's how you build a good reputation with other players as well.

All of this is either exaggerated or speaks to a bigger problem.   How in the world does a player who vocally wants to leave the team and refuses to play his defined role end up with the 5th most shots on the team?   I mean why is this guy getting his butt off the bench.   To me that's more concerning.  

[Sothron]

When Kevin got paid Cam was going to be traded. It is just that simple. They were never going to go into the tax to keep Cam especially with how the team is doing and Cam's inconsistent play. That's reality. It then becomes what is the best deal we can get for him. Travis is not an idiot. If he thought waiting to the draft to flip Cam would have gotten a better return he would have done it. 

This trade was necessary from the Hawks side of it. I firmly believe they will use that pick from the Hornets in an attempt to trade for an impact player either this season or around the draft.

[NBASupes]

30 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Cam wanted out.  He asked out.  What do you want of Travis?  Cam's value will only go down further and further the longer we hold him, especially since teams know he doesn't want to be here.  Cam clearly didn't want to develop into a plus-player while he worked on his game.  He could have taken the Jaylen Brown approach and been a very good 3&D guy while working on other aspects of his offensive game, but he didn't want to commit to playing defense and didn't want to be a spot up shooter. 

So genuinely asking, what would you have done if you were Travis Schlenk?

Travis put him on the block way before he asked out and keep him. Sabonis and Turner have asked out, do you see Indy trading him for scraps. The entire NBA knew Atlanta had him on the block, what do you expect his value to be? You keep Cam till he's a FA and you make 100% certainty you got the max you can out of him like NO did with Ball. When you do what Atlanta has done and bail early, it just shows weakness as a GM/POO. This is the pro sports, do you know how many times guys ask out for whatever reason? Kobe asked out of LA before, but has he played with any team outside of the Lakers? No. Stop this bullshit man. Hawks scabbed his name around in the last year and a half. Not the other way around. I understand you hate Cam, so you got it in your feelings to blame him but I am not. I think it's bullshit you make a hit piece once he's gone. You could have noted this before that he wanted out but you didn't. Zion has wanted out, do you see him being traded. Ben Simmons. So many players in this league have asked out but do you see them traded for scraps? 

Kill that noise. We got garbage back for value we paid a premium for. I don't see how you can make excuses on this shit. 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, aali34 said:

I don't know.

Travis usually knows when to cut bait on a guy thats not doing what is expected of them. Omari and Bruno being examples. He also honors trade requests and doesn't hold players hostage. Rondo and Baze are good examples of this.

The timing being so early instead of at the deadline makes it easy to see that Cam wanted out.

I don't think a bunch of people are bashing Cam, people are just disappointed in everyone involved.

Bruno and Omari can't come back to bite you in the ass. Cam can, that's why he's a dumbass for doing the deal in the first place. 

[Diesel]

6 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

All of this is either exaggerated or speaks to a bigger problem.   How in the world does a player who vocally wants to leave the team and refuses to play his defined role end up with the 5th most shots on the team?   I mean why is this guy getting his butt off the bench.   To me that's more concerning.  

I heard that TLC wanted to leave too... but Nate keeps putting him in the game. 

[marco102]

Just outrageous.

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

No we are not better.   You are right, offseason offers would have been better.   Lakers pick, Memphis pick, even NY pick.

Right now, NY is laughing at us because we folded like a tent. 

Did you know that Cam led the team in deflections?

Today we are weaker...  Our lockerroom better be better. 

 

It's gonna be fun to see how the boys deflect once games start being played. @JeffS17 out here acting as if he's TS assistant. I hope he gets paid because (RECKONING ~lw3) season is starting real soon and I am not letting up. 

[marco102]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Travis put him on the block way before he asked out and keep him. Sabonis and Turner have asked out, do you see Indy trading him for scraps. The entire NBA knew Atlanta had him on the block, what do you expect his value to be? You keep Cam till he's a FA and you make 100% certainty you got the max you can out of him like NO did with Ball. When you do what Atlanta has done and bail early, it just shows weakness as a GM/POO. This is the pro sports, do you know how many times guys ask out for whatever reason? Kobe asked out of LA before, but has he played with any team outside of the Lakers? No. Stop this bullshit man. Hawks scabbed his name around in the last year and a half. Not the other way around. I understand you hate Cam, so you got it in your feelings to blame him but I am not. I think it's bullshit you make a hit piece once he's gone. You could have noted this before that he wanted out but you didn't. Zion has wanted out, do you see him being traded. Ben Simmons. So many players in this league have asked out but do you see them traded for scraps? 

Kill that noise. We got garbage back for value we paid a premium for. I don't see how you can make excuses on this shit. 

Look I'm upset too, but the way you are falling off the deep end is really just a bit much. 

It is not the end of the world. You are still here and im assuming your family is healthy. Put things in prospective. Cam Reddish getting traded is just a guy going to another team. We all will be alright.

[JeffS17]

13 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Travis put him on the block way before he asked out and keep him. Sabonis and Turner have asked out, do you see Indy trading him for scraps. The entire NBA knew Atlanta had him on the block, what do you expect his value to be? You keep Cam till he's a FA and you make 100% certainty you got the max you can out of him like NO did with Ball. When you do what Atlanta has done and bail early, it just shows weakness as a GM/POO. This is the pro sports, do you know how many times guys ask out for whatever reason? Kobe asked out of LA before, but has he played with any team outside of the Lakers? No. Stop this bullshit man. Hawks scabbed his name around in the last year and a half. Not the other way around. I understand you hate Cam, so you got it in your feelings to blame him but I am not. I think it's bullshit you make a hit piece once he's gone. You could have noted this before that he wanted out but you didn't. Zion has wanted out, do you see him being traded. Ben Simmons. So many players in this league have asked out but do you see them traded for scraps? 

Kill that noise. We got garbage back for value we paid a premium for. I don't see how you can make excuses on this shit. 

I'm not making excuses lol... I'm just defending the position we were in with him and we took the *best* option.  Most of us aren't excited about a late first rounder... unfortunately, that's Cams value.  Why on Earth would his value be any higher than that?  He was always a gamble and he has not improved materially in 3 years.  If you were an opposing GM, would you really give up a ~10th round pick for a guy that you are about to have to pay and has been bad his first three seasons?  Do you think he's worth that?  Teams have seen him play in the NBA now.

Also, I don't hate Cam, been a huge fan since he got drafted.  That doesn't mean I have blinders on as to the player he is RIGHT NOW.  He's not elite right now; he's not lottery pick worthy.  I have no idea why you keep saying I'm a Cam hater.  And New Orleans got trash for Lonzo because they waited until RFA to sign-and-trade.  What are you even talking about?  They got Tomas Satoransky and Garrett Temple and a 2nd rounder... ask any NO fans if they're happy with how that played out.

[NBASupes]

Just now, marco102 said:

Just outrageous.

I read it this morning. It just continues to bring up, the desperation of Travis Schlenk and trade deals. TS fanboys can make excuses but he doesn't make smart trades. His negotiation is all that honesty BS and just telling it like it is, he is not shrewd. We hired a professional scout to run our organization. I hate Ferry cocky, entitled and bigoted ass but he runs circles around TS as a GM. If only he had an eye for talent and had balls like TS does, he would have landed Giannis and would still be here as well as good drafts. His eye for talent is trash. I could have drafted better with my eyes closed than him. He just doesn't have a feel for talent. TS does. I've give him that. He's special at that but running a team, trades, building a team. Man, TS is over his head. He's a damn scout. He's not a team builder. 

That's why I continue to say, he's the one GM, I know other GMs likely feel they can get over on him. 

[thecampster]

So I wrote a beautiful post on this early this morning that somehow didn't get posted. I will try to recreate that magic now.

 

So during this season, I've taken to watching Kevin Huerter's body language on the floor. Kevin could never win at poker, his feelings cover his face like 4 day old acne. Kevin has also started coaching on the floor for anyone noticing. He's pointing people into position, barking out defensive calls on the wing and his body language can tell you everything you want to know about who isn't playing within a team concept. Kevin is the consummate team player, coach's player. He takes direction and always try to work within the scheme (to a fault).

So earlier this year I was watching a Hawk's game and the Hawks were in their mini zone they'll play on the wings. Cam set up shop to 1v1 his man with the ball on the catch. Kev was close and one handed pushed cam to the dominant right hand of the player, barking at him to deny the lane. Cam reset on the player in man on man style D. The player faked left and drove middle where there was no defender, easy bucket. Kevin's body language was that of a father who just saw his son get trucked in linebacker drills. Shoulders slumped.

You see this type of thing often from Kevin when Trae shoots early in the clock, late in the game or Gallo ignores the offensive set and decides it awkward 1v1 time. It doesn't matter if the shots go in, they aren't a part of the designed game plan, the set and Kevin is a team guy, a coach's guy. He runs the set. Occasionally you'll see Kevin and sometimes Bogie demand the ball on the inbounds to run the play and get the Hawks back into running sets. Kevin's frustration with Cam was obvious on the court as you'd see his shoulders slump every time Cam received a pass at the top of the key and face up to go 1v1. Shoulders down, move to the near wing ready to crash the glass. He knew the ball movement had stopped. Same with Gallo, same with Wright bringing the ball up.

Watch Kevin's body when JC gets a rebound, life springs into his body and he starts up the floor calling for the ball...why? He knows its coming.

I don't blame Cam for wanting to get back to how he dominated in high school. For most of these guys, they've been the best player on their team at every level except maybe 1 or 2 years of college. They've been used to going off for 40 a night in high school. Kevin (for example) was Mr. Basketball for the state of New York his senior year. These guys are the best and being hit with the reality that you aren't is hard for most of these guys.

I rated the trade a B but not on talent. I rated it based on getting back a player who has come to accept his role and the emotional beatdown Tibbs gave him. We don't need another superstar, we need a guy shooting the corner 3 at a 60% clip. We need a guy who will stop the penetration at the lane as the defensive game plan suggests. We need more buy in. We aren't huge. We don't have Jokic or Embiid and can just run over folks. We have to win as a total team concept and people not buying in have to go.

I'll miss Cam but I don't think Nate will. He needs buy in and Cam was listening to the wrong people.

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Look I'm upset too, but the way you are falling off the deep end is really just a bit much. 

It is not the end of the world. You are still here and im assuming your family is healthy. Put things in prospective. Cam Reddish getting traded is just a guy going to another team. We all will be alright.

No we won't and he's not a JAG. You are telling yourself that now but when this backfires and it will, we will be the ones with egg on our face. I've seen this story far too many times. You never trade extremely talented players for scrubs or middling assets. You NEVER do that. Because they aren't many extremely talented players around and the risk is much higher than the reward. 

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

I read it this morning. It just continues to bring up, the desperation of Travis Schlenk and trade deals. TS fanboys can make excuses but he doesn't make smart trades. His negotiation is all that honesty BS and just telling it like it is, he is not shrewd. We hired a professional scout to run our organization. I hate Ferry cocky, entitled and bigoted ass but he runs circles around TS as a GM. If only he had an eye for talent and had balls like TS does, he would have landed Giannis and would still be here as well as good drafts. His eye for talent is trash. I could have drafted better with my eyes closed than him. He just doesn't have a feel for talent. TS does. I've give him that. He's special at that but running a team, trades, building a team. Man, TS is over his head. He's a damn scout. He's not a team builder. 

That's why I continue to say, he's the one GM, I know other GMs likely feel they can get over on him. 

Not trying to go down that rabbit hole, but characterizing Ferry as bigoted for reading a remark off a scouting report is ridiculous. I'm sorry, but what happened to Ferry was just a take down from our selfish petty owner who cared more about his own interests than the reputation and standing of the organization.