CAM REDDISH TO NY FOR KEVIN KNOX AND FIRST!?!

[txsting]

5 minutes ago, thecampster said:

2 2nds and minimum salary match.

This is what people don't get.  What does it say to you when this is the straight-faced offer?  Other teams don't know that we wouldn't pay Cam.  There's LOTS of other things we could do to open up space if we decided to make Cam a centerpiece.  Huerter could be moved just as easily as he got paid. 

And yes, we shopped him which limits the return value somewhat, but if you've decided you need to move on, what do you do?  NOT shop him?  HOPE that someone comes to you?  Get out of here with that foolishness.

[marco102]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Have you ever followed the NBA? There are a lot of teams with guys who want out where the team's perception is great. 

Name them. Indiana isn't on of them.

[NBASupes]

Just now, thecampster said:

So let me spin this a tad.

1. Assuming we resurrect Knox's career and morphs into a 15-20 minute per game solid role player.

2. Assuming Knox resigns here for a more than Solo, less than midlevel player salary (say $5 million/per).

3. Assuming Cam remains an 11 ppg type of player with good 1v1 but bad team defense but extends for $15 million + in the offseason.

Is this then a good trade?

If Knox makes his teammates happy, his production is only mildly less than Cam's but provides better team defense and our better players get their desired shots, opportunities....is this a good trade? If it also frees up $10 million/year in salary down the road per year is it a good trade?

Your making a lot of assumptions on a scrub who has low BBIQ on both ends, poor feel for the game, and is a tweener position wise. For the help Trae could provide him on one it, it will be unbearable on the other end. We seen low BBIQ, feel, before with Damian and how did that work out for us? 

[Final_quest]

15 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The reports were that the Lakers were in heavy pursuit of Cam.

I wonder what the offer was?

They probably offered their first (2023) and Nunn??

But Nunn is injured and may not play this season.  And the Lakers 2023 first with protections is probably not going to get it for us. 

Maybe they offered Baze & Ariza??  - NOPE.

They probably didn't offer Monk.. who put on a show for us. 

Would they have offered THT for Cam and Dieng?

Not really moved by THT because he is small and can't shoot.

 

They offered two second rounders.  That was reported yesterday.  

[NBASupes]

Just now, marco102 said:

Name them. Indiana isn't on of them.

Most teams in the NBA have and always had players who would rather be elsewhere if they had there choice. 

[JeffS17]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Reputation is given due to perception and hindsight. Do you not realize that? How do you get evaluated at your job? 

I do realize that but I'm calling it a fallacy because it is.  If you use good logic and decision making you will end up with better sustained results over the long term, so that's how I judge trades.  It's also how I am judged at work -- if something doesn't work out the way it's intended but you have sound logic and reasoning, no way can disagree with your decision making.

You can't berate Schlenk for making a bad trade for Capela because Capela was hurt and it was unclear if he could play at a high level again (he was very very good last year and a major reason we went to the ECF), and then turn around and say this trade is bad.  It's not logically consistent.  You're warping your own evaluation process just to slam Schlenk.  I don't agree with hind sighting trades but at least be consistent if you're going to do that.

[bleachkit]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Have you ever followed the NBA? There are a lot of teams with guys who want out where the team's perception is great. 

I do think youre right in that you can't trade every player that wants out. Every guy wants more minutes, more shots, etc  You can't have the inmates run the asylum. 

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, txsting said:

This is what people don't get.  What does it say to you when this is the straight-faced offer?  Other teams don't know that we wouldn't pay Cam.  There's LOTS of other things we could do to open up space if we decided to make Cam a centerpiece.  Huerter could be moved just as easily as he got paid. 

And yes, we shopped him which limits the return value somewhat, but if you've decided you need to move on, what do you do?  NOT shop him?  HOPE that someone comes to you?  Get out of here with that foolishness.

Well, what is said to me is that the Lakers really wanted Cam but they gave away their first round pick for this year and they don't have any real players with trade value.   I mean, Malik Monk is in the last year of his deal and would only muddy things up in our SG rotation.   THT is a fraud. 

The prudent thing would have been to wait til draft night.  I think Memphis could have worked a deal for us.   Or even NY.  However, if Cam was a lockerroom disturbance and wearing down the team then it's a good move. 

[thecampster]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Your making a lot of assumptions on a scrub who has low BBIQ on both ends, poor feel for the game, and is a tweener position wise. For the help Trae could provide him on one it, it will be unbearable on the other end. We seen low BBIQ, feel, before with Damian and how did that work out for us? 

I'm not 100% sold on the "bad player" label.

[marco102]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Most teams in the NBA have and always had players who would rather be elsewhere if they had there choice. 

Name names. Just don't make that blanket statement. When a guy really wants to get out and it is not a winning team, tell me where that team's reputation doesn't take a hit for keeping the guy. In most cases, the player is traded when those demands are made public or they effect the locker room.

Edited January 14, 2022 by marco102

[txsting]

I can't defend the idea of resurrecting Knox cause I think he's shit.  However, we did add value to THJr who was maltreated in the dysfunction of NYK.  It has happened.  

But like I said, I'm not going to die on that hill or even defend it.  There's no shortage of value and reason to support the return that we got with the pick, without defending Knox.

[SalvorMallow]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Your making a lot of assumptions on a scrub who has low BBIQ on both ends, poor feel for the game, and is a tweener position wise. For the help Trae could provide him on one it, it will be unbearable on the other end. We seen low BBIQ, feel, before with Damian and how did that work out for us? 

Cam also has very low BBIQ and poor feel for the game. I think that is why he struggles to be productive even though he is so talented. He takes bone headed shots and ill advised gambles for steals most of the time he is on the court. 

[JeffS17]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Your making a lot of assumptions on a scrub who has low BBIQ on both ends, poor feel for the game, and is a tweener position wise. For the help Trae could provide him on one it, it will be unbearable on the other end. We seen low BBIQ, feel, before with Damian and how did that work out for us? 

Are you describing Knox or Reddish, because this is exactly how other teams fan bases describe Reddish

[JayBirdHawk]

56 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You keep Cam till he's a FA and you make 100% certainty you got the max you can out of him like NO did with Ball.

NOP received a 2nd round pick and salary filler for Ball in the SnT.

[thecampster]

Just now, Diesel said:

Well, what is said to me is that the Lakers really wanted Cam but they gave away their first round pick for this year and they don't have any real players with trade value.   I mean, Malik Monk is in the last year of his deal and would only muddy things up in our SG rotation.   THT is a fraud. 

The prudent thing would have been to wait til draft night.  I think Memphis could have worked a deal for us.   Or even NY.  However, if Cam was a lockerroom disturbance and wearing down the team then it's a good move. 

I'm not sure disturbance is the right word. Like there weren't fights, but there were grumblings and words. Its was heading that way. It was a very proactive move for sure.

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I think from a player perspective our perception is probably better than it was -- we got a guy to a place he wanted to be.  We got fair value for it and that type of positive FO-player relationships over time will make us a better destination.

I guess.  If this is true it seems like a very novel strategy compared to what other teams do with malcontents.  If i'm on the Hawks now maybe i'm happy Cam is gone but i'm also seeing that a guy who supposedly wasn't professional and didn't try to be part of the team gets what he wants.  (i'm way out in left field now. lol).   If you're a current player does that seem like a good organization?

JC seems not that happy.  Why wouldn't he say 'get me to the Warriors or Lakers or Bulls pronto.'

[thecampster]

3 minutes ago, txsting said:

I can't defend the idea of resurrecting Knox cause I think he's shit.  However, we did add value to THJr who was maltreated in the dysfunction of NYK.  It has happened.  

But like I said, I'm not going to die on that hill or even defend it.  There's no shortage of value and reason to support the return that we got with the pick, without defending Knox.

That's fair. I mean I can't say the assessment of Knox can be fair. Think of all the players Tibbs buried in Chicago that went elsewhere and were instantly better.

[JeffS17]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

If you're a current player does that seem like a good organization?

Yes.  Personally, I've been in situations like this at work and as much as it feels good in the moment to be vindictive or spiteful, as soon as the problem-employee is moved, going to work feels better, mood is better, etc.  You forget about them real fast.

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I guess.  If this is true it seems like a very novel strategy compared to what other teams do with malcontents.  If i'm on the Hawks now maybe i'm happy Cam is gone but i'm also seeing that a guy who supposedly wasn't professional and didn't try to be part of the team gets what he wants.  (i'm way out in left field now. lol).   If you're a current player does that seem like a good organization?

JC seems not that happy.  Why wouldn't he say 'get me to the Warriors or Lakers or Bulls pronto.'

Well maybe we should just trade everyone and get g league players since this one trade f***ed us up so badly.

Edited January 14, 2022 by marco102

[NBASupes]

Just now, JeffS17 said:

I do realize that but I'm calling it a fallacy because it is.  If you use good logic and decision making you will end up with better sustained results over the long term, so that's how I judge trades.  It's also how I am judged at work -- if something doesn't work out the way it's intended but you have sound logic and reasoning, no way can disagree with your decision making.

You can't berate Schlenk for making a bad trade for Capela because Capela was hurt and it was unclear if he could play at a high level again (he was very very good last year and a major reason we went to the ECF), and then turn around and say this trade is bad.  It's not logically consistent.  You're warping your own evaluation process just to slam Schlenk.  I don't agree with hind sighting trades but at least be consistent if you're going to do that.

TS doesn't use good logic and good decision making skills or he wouldn't have traded Luka Doncic for Trae Young. He literally needed to hit a HR with 10th pick the next year and a home run talent was there for the taking, took him and now he can't be judged by that trade as its closed for the Hawks. Even if you want to put that potential pick in its place, it doesn't have the potential to really move that deal. 

The Capela deal wasn't a bad deal. I never said that. I said it was a high risk deal. We wouldn't have made it today. He literally needed 8-10 months for recovery and he costed a 1st rounder. That's not great value at all but it worked because we were tanking anyway. But in the NBA, that's damaged good and what we gave was an overpay. Same for Porter Jr and Denver but at least Denver, the value was there. This guy has franchise player potential but he just needs to sit a year or two. For a team with no minutes for any rookie anyway at 14, it was a great value move. For us, it was a high risk move that paid off.