CAM REDDISH TO NY FOR KEVIN KNOX AND FIRST!?!

[ATLHawks3]

At the end of the day, Cam didn’t want to play with us. Wish him well in the future and move on. It is what it is.

[Spud2nique]

12 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It's gonna be fun to see how the boys deflect once games start being played. @JeffS17 out here acting as if he's TS assistant. I hope he gets paid because foot to neck season is starting real soon and I am not letting up. 

He is.

[JeffS17]

4 minutes ago, thecampster said:

So I wrote a beautiful post on this early this morning that somehow didn't get posted. I will try to recreate that magic now.

 

So during this season, I've taken to watching Kevin Huerter's body language on the floor. Kevin could never win at poker, his feelings cover his face like 4 day old acne. Kevin has also started coaching on the floor for anyone noticing. He's pointing people into position, barking out defensive calls on the wing and his body language can tell you everything you want to know about who isn't playing within a team concept. Kevin is the consummate team player, coach's player. He takes direction and always try to work within the scheme (to a fault).

So earlier this year I was watching a Hawk's game and the Hawks were in their mini zone they'll play on the wings. Cam set up shop to 1v1 his man with the ball on the catch. Kev was close and one handed pushed cam to the dominant right hand of the player, barking at him to deny the lane. Cam reset on the player in man on man style D. The player faked left and drove middle where there was no defender, easy bucket. Kevin's body language was that of a father who just saw his son get trucked in linebacker drills. Shoulders slumped.

You see this type of thing often from Kevin when Trae shoots early in the clock, late in the game or Gallo ignores the offensive set and decides it awkward 1v1 time. It doesn't matter if the shots go in, they aren't a part of the designed game plan, the set and Kevin is a team guy, a coach's guy. He runs the set. Occasionally you'll see Kevin and sometimes Bogie demand the ball on the inbounds to run the play and get the Hawks back into running sets. Kevin's frustration with Cam was obvious on the court as you'd see his shoulders slump every time Cam received a pass at the top of the key and face up to go 1v1. Shoulders down, move to the near wing ready to crash the glass. He knew the ball movement had stopped. Same with Gallo, same with Wright bringing the ball up.

Watch Kevin's body when JC gets a rebound, life springs into his body and he starts up the floor calling for the ball...why? He knows its coming.

I don't blame Cam for wanting to get back to how he dominated in high school. For most of these guys, they've been the best player on their team at every level except maybe 1 or 2 years of college. They've been used to going off for 40 a night in high school. Kevin (for example) was Mr. Basketball for the state of New York his senior year. These guys are the best and being hit with the reality that you aren't is hard for most of these guys.

I rated the trade a B but not on talent. I rated it based on getting back a player who has come to accept his role and the emotional beatdown Tibbs gave him. We don't need another superstar, we need a guy shooting the corner 3 at a 60% clip. We need a guy who will stop the penetration at the lane as the defensive game plan suggests. We need more buy in. We aren't huge. We don't have Jokic or Embiid and can just run over folks. We have to win as a total team concept and people not buying in have to go.

I'll miss Cam but I don't think Nate will. He needs buy in and Cam was listening to the wrong people.

Thanks for the writeup, good post.  I haven't noticed his body language as much, but I have noticed Kev has been a voice on defense.  You see him pointing and shouting a lot, especially when guys are a little slow getting back.

[bleachkit]

Glass half full perspective. Maybe Travis will get the 19th pick, which has been lucky for us. 

[Spud2nique]

8 minutes ago, thecampster said:

So I wrote a beautiful post on this early this morning that somehow didn't get posted.

 they made me a mod! You’re screwed! 

[macdaddy]

At the end of the day i think there are a lot of question marks about what went down with Cam the last 3 years.   But to me, unless you are convinced he's a bust, you don't ship him to the Knicks.    If he becomes even a solid player for the Knicks it just further damages our reputation in the NBA.   If he does it in Sacramento or Portland or hell even Indy no one cares.  

Think how many times we're going to hear "can't believe hawks gave up on this guy" from the NY sports media (which is all national nba media) every time Cam has a dunk or scores 15 points or gets a steal.  

[Spud2nique]

9 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I've taken to watching Kevin Huerter's body language on the floor.

We know, that was one of the last things I read that you wrote. Something about hiding in the bushes and watching Kev being kissed by each and every teammate as they massage his feet .

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I'm not making excuses lol... I'm just defending the position we were in with him and we took the *best* option.  Most of us aren't excited about a late first rounder... unfortunately, that's Cams value.  Why on Earth would his value be any higher than that?  He was always a gamble and he has not improved materially in 3 years.  If you were an opposing GM, would you really give up a ~10th round pick for a guy that you are about to have to pay and has been bad his first three seasons?  Do you think he's worth that?  Teams have seen him play in the NBA now.

Also, I don't hate Cam, been a huge fan since he got drafted.  That doesn't mean I have blinders on as to the player he is RIGHT NOW.  He's not elite right now; he's not lottery pick worthy.  I have no idea why you keep saying I'm a Cam hater.  And New Orleans got trash for Lonzo because they waited until RFA to sign-and-trade.  What are you even talking about?  They didn't get any picks for him, they got Tomas Satoransky and Garrett Temple and a 2nd rounder... ask any NO fans if they're happy with how that played out.

Your making excuses for TS. You are saying this is the best option when this is an extremely risky option because trades are judged on what you do moving forward, not in the past. Just because KG and Paul Pierce was HOF and ATGs doesn't mean Brooklyn didn't get taken to the woodshed by Boston. Even with the Joe Johnson deal to Brooklyn. Atlanta didn't even win that deal. It's fair to say, if Atlanta could do it over, maybe there was other ways to improve and just change up the style of play with Bud and Al and SnT Smoove for a TPE. Use that TPE to get Sap. Carroll was signed under the MLE. Now you wouldn't have gotten Korver but you could have had 

Teague

Iso Joe

Carroll

Sap

Horford

That would have changed our ceiling. So did the Iso Joe trade work for Atlanta? It didn't. Because the value they got for Joe, never matriculated. Ferry was terrible at drafting and Joe in that system would have pushed us to the top and gave us two years of contending, and maybe three if Al never torn his pec. 

You don't trade extremely talented players for middling assets. protected lottery picks are middling assets. There is a major gap in the NBA from 10-14 range to 15-20 range in terms of trade value. Massive gap. If you traded Cam for that, the value would be better for sure but as it stands, it's a bad deal. Because the risk is much higher than the reward. If Portland could do it all over again, they would have never traded JO for Dale Davis. It was a deal that ended an era and began a new one elsewhere. Players with Cam talent as well as Zo's, you just keep them till you officially know, hey, I maxed this guy out. Atlanta didn't do that here. We all know that, it's up to you if you want to accept it or not. 

[Spud2nique]

23 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Bruno and Omari can't come back to bite you in the ass. Cam can, that's why he's a dumbass for doing the deal in the first place. 

Unless he’s injured or load management or has a sore

PINKY!

Cam out!

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

don't ship him to the Knicks.   

I thought about this and agreed yesterday. Then I thought that Schlenk is a master genius and is trying to tie the Knicks (eastern conference foe) and their money with Cam. Think about it, they pay him, he’s one of their pieces, if Schlenk knows Cam is a pu$$y and isnt a ride or die teammate, then he helped us and screwed the Knicks with one trade!

[bleachkit]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

At the end of the day i think there are a lot of question marks about what went down with Cam the last 3 years.   But to me, unless you are convinced he's a bust, you don't ship him to the Knicks.    If he becomes even a solid player for the Knicks it just further damages our reputation in the NBA.   If he does it in Sacramento or Portland or hell even Indy no one cares.  

Think how many times we're going to hear "can't believe hawks gave up on this guy" from the NY sports media (which is all national nba media) every time Cam has a dunk or scores 15 points or gets a steal.  

I don't wish any ill will on Cam, and he is very talented. But if I had to look into my crystal ball, his career will probably be mired by injuries and inconsistent play. He will have great games here and there though. To become a star in the NBA, you have to be incredibly consistent.

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

I thought about this and agreed yesterday. Then I thought that Schlenk is a master genius and is trying to tie the Knicks (eastern conference foe) and their money with Cam. Think about it, they pay him, he’s one of their pieces, if Schlenk knows Cam is a pu$$y and isnt a ride or die teammate, then he helped us and screwed the Knicks with one trade!

The theory being that the Knicks are concerned about paying guys too much?

[Spud2nique]

Just now, bleachkit said:

I don't wish any ill will on Cam, and he is very talented. But if I had to look into my crystal ball, his career will probably be mired by injuries and inconsistent play. He will have great games here and there though. To become a star in the NBA, you have to be incredibly consistent.

Hi beachy kitty strong post I agree. 

[JeffS17]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Your making excuses for TS. You are saying this is the best option when this is an extremely risky option because trades are judged on what you do moving forward, not in the past. Just because KG and Paul Pierce was HOF and ATGs doesn't mean Brooklyn didn't get taken to the woodshed by Boston. Even with the Joe Johnson deal to Brooklyn. Atlanta didn't even win that deal. It's fair to say, if Atlanta could do it over, maybe there was other ways to improve and just change up the style of play with Bud and Al and SnT Smoove for a TPE. Use that TPE to get Sap. Carroll was signed under the MLE. Now you wouldn't have gotten Korver but you could have had 

Teague

Iso Joe

Carroll

Sap

Horford

That would have changed our ceiling. So did the Iso Joe trade work for Atlanta? It didn't. Because the value they got for Joe, never matriculated. Ferry was terrible at drafting and Joe in that system would have pushed us to the top and gave us two years of contending, and maybe three if Al never torn his pec. 

You don't trade extremely talented players for middling assets. protected lottery picks are middling assets. There is a major gap in the NBA from 10-14 range to 15-20 range in terms of trade value. Massive gap. If you traded Cam for that, the value would be better for sure but as it stands, it's a bad deal. Because the risk is much higher than the reward. If Portland could do it all over again, they would have never traded JO for Dale Davis. It was a deal that ended an era and began a new one elsewhere. Players with Cam talent as well as Zo's, you just keep them till you officially know, hey, I maxed this guy out. Atlanta didn't do that here. We all know that, it's up to you if you want to accept it or not. 

We just disagree -- it's okay.  Your value of Cam is just much much higher than mine.  I see him as a very high upside player that has not fulfilled his potential and every game that passes, looks more and more like he won't.  And he's not a team guy so there will always be issues with that.  And I judge trades based on the context/situation the trade was made.  If Cam goes on to be an all-star, I don't think that has anything to do with this trade.  No one KNOWS he will be an all-star which is why his value is so low.  And he doesn't want to be in Atlanta anyways.

-TS Assistant

[Diesel]

The reports were that the Lakers were in heavy pursuit of Cam.

I wonder what the offer was?

They probably offered their first (2023) and Nunn??

But Nunn is injured and may not play this season.  And the Lakers 2023 first with protections is probably not going to get it for us. 

Maybe they offered Baze & Ariza??  - NOPE.

They probably didn't offer Monk.. who put on a show for us. 

Would they have offered THT for Cam and Dieng?

Not really moved by THT because he is small and can't shoot.

 

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

I don't wish any ill will on Cam, and he is very talented. But if I had to look into my crystal ball, his career will probably be mired by injuries and inconsistent play. He will have great games here and there though. To become a star in the NBA, you have to be incredibly consistent.

Who said star.  If he's just a good rotation player for the Knicks we'll never live this trade down. 

[Spud2nique]

Just now, macdaddy said:

The theory being that the Knicks are concerned about paying guys too much?

No just that if Cam goes and shows out for them this season and they get excited and pay him a big contract, as soon as he gets it he goes back to 50/50 available Cam, then the Knicks are in it for the long haul. We just need Cam to have an awesome rest of the year for them in my view. Schlenk may still be a genius that we all though, stay tuned…

[macdaddy]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

No just that if Cam goes and shows out for them this season and they get excited and pay him a big contract, as soon as he gets it he goes back to 50/50 available Cam, then the Knicks are in it for the long haul. We just need Cam to have an awesome rest of the year for them in my view. Schlenk may still be a genius that we all though, stay tuned…

Well that's the long con to be sure. 

[Spud2nique]

Just now, macdaddy said:

Well that's the long con to be sure. 

Ya we will know the result of that in a year and a half…

https://memes.yarn.co/yarn-clip/f03f170a-7816-448d-ad40-cb6292b9ff77

[macdaddy]

At this point I want to see Bogi/Hunter as our healthy starting wings and get back to some real Hawks ball.