Official Game Thread: Celtics at Hawks

[lethalweapon3]

“Coach, I know you put Dennis in charge of team bonding exercises on the road. But picking fights at hookah bars? I don’t know…”

 

Two towns before the Bravos arrived in Atlanta, a Boston Post sports editor penned a handy poem about two WWII vets who took turns on the mound to charge his town’s baseball heroes up the hill in the National League standings:

First we'll use Spahn
then we'll use Sain
Then an off day
followed by rain
Back will come Spahn
followed by Sain
And followed
we hope
by two days of rain.

“Spahn and Sain, then, Pray for Rain” the shortened epigram became, honoring the pair of Boston hurlers who won eight consecutive, weather-delayed games, including swept doubleheaders, over the course of 12 September calendar days. MVP runner-up Johnny Sain and Warren Spahn were key to the 1948 Bravos seizing just their second NL pennant since 1901.

Major League baseball, of course, has never been in a similar situation as professional basketball. In the latter, so long as the roofs are in good working condition, you have no hope of getting rained out. In 2022, sixteen NBA teams make it into the league’s postseason, eight from each conference, compared to just one from each of MLB’s two, separate-playing, eight-team leagues racing toward 1948’s World Series. Only Dwight Howard would be surprised to find that, in basketball, pine tar can’t help you gain an edge.

There’s one other notable difference between Boston’s diamond stars of yore and their perennial hardwood All-Stars of today. For all their burgeoning greatness, teammates Spahn and Sain weren’t able to help each other win in the same game. Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown can, and when they do that, today’s Boston Celtics are a much stronger pennant-chaser. But the duo still needs help.

Many of us who grew up well after WWII concluded were under a misguided impression that “Pray for Rain” was a suggestion the other pitchers in Boston’s starting rotation were indeed chopped liver. Bill Voiselle won nearly as many games as Spahn, while Vern Bickford had a spiffy 11-5 record on the mound.

Messrs. Tatum (team-high 26.0 PPG; career-high 8.5 APG, but career-worsts of 42.7 FG%, 33.1 3FG%, and 3.0 TOs/game) and Brown (career-high 6.0 RPG; 45.4 FG% lowest since rookie year) could use some Voiselles and Bickfords on a nightly basis down the stretch. That’s where former Atlanta Hawks Dennis Schröder and Al Horford could come in handy.

I am most assuredly misremembering, as The Menace and The Bawse return once more this season to State Farm Arena in Celtic green (7:30 PM Eastern, Bally Sports Southeast and 92.9 FM in ATL, ESPN), but I have a hard time recalling a bunch of great moments involving specifically these two first-round draftees together on the floor in Atlanta. There was Horf’s Game 5 playoff putback of Dennis’ miss versus the Wizards, and then, my head starts to hurt.

Al had to miss out on much of Dennis’ rookie season due to an early-season injury. But in the next two of Dennis’ developing years, Coach Bud paired the sixth-man guard with Horford more than any other Hawk.

As fans, we managed to transcend Horford’s 2016 departure to chase gold balls in Boston by critiquing that, even at his All-Star peak, he was individually incapable of wooing talent to join forces in Atlanta, in the same manner teams were doing with him. His chase didn’t pan out, either there or in Philadelphia. Around the end of 2020, Al would soon find himself entering the revolving door in Oklahoma City that Dennis exited weeks before.

Horford sat out much of his time with first-rounder-voracious OKC, and engineered his way back to Brad Stevens, now a Celtics GM presiding over rookie coach Ime Udoka’s roster. Horford found his recruiting chops in the ensuing months of summer 2021, blowing up Schröder’s DMs and making his pitch.

Dennis, it turned out, was not the addition the reigning champion Lakers needed to wage a repeat in 2021. He further fumbled The Bag by declining a hefty contract extension offer from LeBrongeles, “betting on himself” and having to settle for modest contract offers this past summer. Horford appealed to Schröder’s desire to handle the ball more, and he asserted the guard’s gritty approach would be a fine, fan-friendly fit beside Marcus Smart and others.

Horford was also an avid seller of Udoka, who was an assistant coaching up Al while he was struggling in Philly, and who worked with Brown, Smart and Tatum during 2019’s FIBA World Cup. Now it’s just a matter of putting it all together. Much like Nate McMillan and the Hawks, there are signs that the C’s are turning a corner. Just in time, for some players, before GM reapers like Stevens and Travis Schlenk swing their scythes ahead of the Trade Deadline.

With the punctual Robert Williams (career-high 17 rebounds vs. SAC; last 15 games: 74.2 FG% and 2.8 BPG) manning the pivot, Horford isn’t obligated to wear his pectorals out at his least favorite position on the floor. Schröder’s usage is roughly the same as last season with the Lakers, but scoring has been a marginal uptick. While he has been vastly better in the starting five (48.6 starter FG%, 34.9% as a reserve), recent games reveal that Udoka hasn’t had to rely on Dennis’ mercurial output from one game to the next.

Out in the NBA West there is already a cap on the top ten seeds, considering Portland at #10 has its lead star returning in the coming weeks while the Blazers have arguably the simplest remaining schedule in the league. “Musical chairs” remain the game in the NBA East, as 12 teams vie for ten slots. Teams like Atlanta and Boston will face weaker sets of opponents, just as they are steeling up their all-around play and as the schedule toughens up for rivals like the Knicks.

Atlanta will continue spending the next couple of weeks fine-tuning their rotations in their home nest. To assure a shot at the postseason, though, both the Hawks (9-14 away games; 3-6 since its six-game run of road wins ended in December) and Celtics (10-14 away) have to get up to even-steven with their road games, considering none of the East’s top-6 have losing road records, while Charlotte, Toronto and New York are all currently a game below .500.

As Sacramento learned the hard way, when both Brown and Tatum (66 combined points on 12-for-26 3FGs, plus 9 assists and 2 TOs vs. SAC on Tuesday) are shooting and passing proficiently and simultaneously, the Celtics can play hardball with anyone.

Two days before passing on the remains of the Kings to Atlanta, the Celts traveled to D.C. and waxed the Wizards by a 116-87 score, with Tatum contributing 51 of the star duo’s 68 points and half of their 20 rebounds, plus a team-high 7 dimes. Well-rested, Boston’s road schedule won’t get any easier than it will after tonight’s game. Tomorrow, they’re in New Orleans. Next weekend, it’s Detroit, then Orlando.

To keep the Celtics’ iron from striking while hot, Hawks perimeter defenders need to make Boston’s truest three-point threats, Grant Williams (3-for-8 3FGs in their 110-99 loss @ ATL on Nov. 17) and Josh Richardson put the ball on the floor. Leaving Schröder, Brown and Tatum to settle for off-rhythm heaves and boxing out Williams (DNP’d, along with Brown on Nov. 17) and Enes Freedom will maximize the Hawks’ chances to extend their home streak to five games.

Balanced scoring and perimeter closeouts were keys to the Hawks’ November victory over Boston (11-for-41 team 3FGs on Nov. 17). The then-inactive De’Andre Hunter ought to be able to at least duplicate what Cam Reddish (19 points on 7-for-8 2FGs, 1-for-6 3FGs, plus 3 steals vs. BOS on Nov. 17) brought to the proceedings.

Stout defensive rebounding from starters John Collins and Clint Capela negated an off perimeter shooting display from Trae Young (0-for-6 3FGs; 11 assists and 10-for-10 FTs but 6 TOs), as did a solid fullcourt performance from Kevin Huerter (5-for-7 3FGs). Having Hunter and an emerging Onyeka Okongwu in play shouldn’t hinder the Hawks’ impacts on the interior, keeping Boston over-reliant on contested jumpers from its wayward-shooting stars.

A pall was cast over Turner Network Television studios in Midtown yesterday evening, as Ernie Johnson announced the final starter to represent the Eastern Conference guards in the 2022 All-Star Game. For the other Atlanta residents on the set, the silence following EJ’s neat-o utterance of “Trae Young”, the reigning conference player of the week, represented considerable disappointment. But given the way NBA fan balloting works, it should not have been a surprise to any of them.

Horford and Schröder laid the blueprint, long ago, that the way to make a lasting name for oneself was to get into the postseason, draw a big-media East Coast darling, and at least threaten to crush their fans’ dreams. Paul Pierce probably still owes a stack from Al’s rookie playoff voyage in 2008. Eight years later, Dennis made himself the foil of beloved cover-boy Isaiah Thomas, as Horford and Paul Millsap ended the Celtics’ season neatly and prematurely at the Garden.

Six years later, while IT scratches and claws to stick anywhere in the big leagues, Horford is desired and admired in Boston once more, and he brought Schröder along with him for the ride this time. These ex-Hawks don’t get the All-Star love that Young received for his recent postseason exploits. But they can help secure a reserve spot for at least one Celtic star, and firm up postseason positioning, with continued cohesive play over the course of the next couple of weeks.

For the big playoff push – Tatum, and Brown, and then what? With a Nor’easter bearing down over the next few days back home, Bostonians and Bay Staters would thank their lucky stars for some quick-dissolving rain.

 

Let’s Go Hawks!

~lw3

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, lethalweapon3 said:

“Coach, I know you put Dennis in charge of team bonding exercises on the road. But picking fights at hookah bars? I don’t know…”

 

Two towns before the Bravos arrived in Atlanta, a Boston Post sports editor penned a handy poem about two WWII vets who took turns on the mound to charge his town’s baseball heroes up the hill in the National League standings:

First we'll use Spahn
then we'll use Sain
Then an off day
followed by rain
Back will come Spahn
followed by Sain
And followed
we hope
by two days of rain.

“Spahn and Sain, then, Pray for Rain” the shortened epigram became, honoring the pair of Boston hurlers who won eight consecutive, weather-delayed games, including swept doubleheaders, over the course of 12 September calendar days. MVP runner-up Johnny Sain and Warren Spahn were key to the 1948 Bravos seizing just their second NL pennant since 1901.

Major League baseball, of course, has never been in a similar situation as professional basketball. In the latter, so long as the roofs are in good working condition, you have no hope of getting rained out. In 2022, sixteen NBA teams make it into the league’s postseason, eight from each conference, compared to just one from each of MLB’s two, separate-playing, eight-team leagues racing toward 1948’s World Series. Only Dwight Howard would be surprised to find that, in basketball, pine tar can’t help you gain an edge.

There’s one other notable difference between Boston’s diamond stars of yore and their perennial hardwood All-Stars of today. For all their burgeoning greatness, teammates Spahn and Sain weren’t able to help each other win in the same game. Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown can, and when they do that, today’s Boston Celtics are a much stronger pennant-chaser. But the duo still needs help.

Many of us who grew up well after WWII concluded were under a misguided impression that “Pray for Rain” was a suggestion the other pitchers in Boston’s starting rotation were indeed chopped liver. Bill Voiselle won nearly as many games as Spahn, while Vern Bickford had a spiffy 11-5 record on the mound.

Messrs. Tatum (team-high 26.0 PPG; career-high 8.5 APG, but career-worsts of 42.7 FG%, 33.1 3FG%, and 3.0 TOs/game) and Brown (career-high 6.0 RPG; 45.4 FG% lowest since rookie year) could use some Voiselles and Bickfords on a nightly basis down the stretch. That’s where former Atlanta Hawks Dennis Schröder and Al Horford could come in handy.

I am most assuredly misremembering, as The Menace and The Bawse return once more this season to State Farm Arena in Celtic green (7:30 PM Eastern, Bally Sports Southeast and 92.9 FM in ATL, ESPN), but I have a hard time recalling a bunch of great moments involving specifically these two first-round draftees together on the floor in Atlanta. There was Horf’s Game 5 playoff putback of Dennis’ miss versus the Wizards, and then, my head starts to hurt.

Al had to miss out on much of Dennis’ rookie season due to an early-season injury. But in the next two of Dennis’ developing years, Coach Bud paired the sixth-man guard with Horford more than any other Hawk.

As fans, we managed to transcend Horford’s 2016 departure to chase gold balls in Boston by critiquing that, even at his All-Star peak, he was individually incapable of wooing talent to join forces in Atlanta, in the same manner teams were doing with him. His chase didn’t pan out, either there or in Philadelphia. Around the end of 2020, Al would soon find himself entering the revolving door in Oklahoma City that Dennis exited weeks before.

Horford sat out much of his time with first-rounder-voracious OKC, and engineered his way back to Brad Stevens, now a Celtics GM presiding over rookie coach Ime Udoka’s roster. Horford found his recruiting chops in the ensuing months of summer 2021, blowing up Schröder’s DMs and making his pitch.

Dennis, it turned out, was not the addition the reigning champion Lakers needed to wage a repeat in 2021. He further fumbled The Bag by declining a hefty contract extension offer from LeBrongeles, “betting on himself” and having to settle for modest contract offers this past summer. Horford appealed to Schröder’s desire to handle the ball more, and he asserted the guard’s gritty approach would be a fine, fan-friendly fit beside Marcus Smart and others.

Horford was also an avid seller of Udoka, who was an assistant coaching up Al while he was struggling in Philly, and who worked with Brown, Smart and Tatum during 2019’s FIBA World Cup. Now it’s just a matter of putting it all together. Much like Nate McMillan and the Hawks, there are signs that the C’s are turning a corner. Just in time, for some players, before GM reapers like Stevens and Travis Schlenk swing their scythes ahead of the Trade Deadline.

With the punctual Robert Williams (career-high 17 rebounds vs. SAC; last 15 games: 74.2 FG% and 2.8 BPG) manning the pivot, Horford isn’t obligated to wear his pectorals out at his least favorite position on the floor. Schröder’s usage is roughly the same as last season with the Lakers, but scoring has been a marginal uptick. While he has been vastly better in the starting five (48.6 starter FG%, 34.9% as a reserve), recent games reveal that Udoka hasn’t had to rely on Dennis’ mercurial output from one game to the next.

Out in the NBA West there is already a cap on the top ten seeds, considering Portland at #10 has its lead star returning in the coming weeks while the Blazers have arguably the simplest remaining schedule in the league. “Musical chairs” remain the game in the NBA East, as 12 teams vie for ten slots. Teams like Atlanta and Boston will face weaker sets of opponents, just as they are steeling up their all-around play and as the schedule toughens up for rivals like the Knicks.

Atlanta will continue spending the next couple of weeks fine-tuning their rotations in their home nest. To assure a shot at the postseason, though, both the Hawks (9-14 away games; 3-6 since its six-game run of road wins ended in December) and Celtics (10-14 away) have to get up to even-steven with their road games, considering none of the East’s top-6 have losing road records, while Charlotte, Toronto and New York are all currently a game below .500.

As Sacramento learned the hard way, when both Brown and Tatum (66 combined points on 12-for-26 3FGs, plus 9 assists and 2 TOs vs. SAC on Tuesday) are shooting and passing proficiently and simultaneously, the Celtics can play hardball with anyone.

Two days before passing on the remains of the Kings to Atlanta, the Celts traveled to D.C. and waxed the Wizards by a 116-87 score, with Tatum contributing 51 of the star duo’s 68 points and half of their 20 rebounds, plus a team-high 7 dimes. Well-rested, Boston’s road schedule won’t get any easier than it will after tonight’s game. Tomorrow, they’re in New Orleans. Next weekend, it’s Detroit, then Orlando.

To keep the Celtics’ iron from striking while hot, Hawks perimeter defenders need to make Boston’s truest three-point threats, Grant Williams (3-for-8 3FGs in their 110-99 loss @ ATL on Nov. 17) and Josh Richardson put the ball on the floor. Leaving Schröder, Brown and Tatum to settle for off-rhythm heaves and boxing out Williams (DNP’d, along with Brown on Nov. 17) and Enes Freedom will maximize the Hawks’ chances to extend their home streak to five games.

Balanced scoring and perimeter closeouts were keys to the Hawks’ November victory over Boston (11-for-41 team 3FGs on Nov. 17). The then-inactive De’Andre Hunter ought to be able to at least duplicate what Cam Reddish (19 points on 7-for-8 2FGs, 1-for-6 3FGs, plus 3 steals vs. BOS on Nov. 17) brought to the proceedings.

Stout defensive rebounding from starters John Collins and Clint Capela negated an off perimeter shooting display from Trae Young (0-for-6 3FGs; 11 assists and 10-for-10 FTs but 6 TOs), as did a solid fullcourt performance from Kevin Huerter (5-for-7 3FGs). Having Hunter and an emerging Onyeka Okongwu in play shouldn’t hinder the Hawks’ impacts on the interior, keeping Boston over-reliant on contested jumpers from its wayward-shooting stars.

A pall was cast over Turner Network Television studios in Midtown yesterday evening, as Ernie Johnson announced the final starter to represent the Eastern Conference guards in the 2022 All-Star Game. For the other Atlanta residents on the set, the silence following EJ’s neat-o utterance of “Trae Young”, the reigning conference player of the week, represented considerable disappointment. But given the way NBA fan balloting works, it should not have been a surprise to any of them.

Horford and Schröder laid the blueprint, long ago, that the way to make a lasting name for oneself was to get into the postseason, draw a big-media East Coast darling, and at least threaten to crush their fans’ dreams. Paul Pierce probably still owes a stack from Al’s rookie playoff voyage in 2008. Eight years later, Dennis made himself the foil of beloved cover-boy Isaiah Thomas, as Horford and Paul Millsap ended the Celtics’ season neatly and prematurely at the Garden.

Six years later, while IT scratches and claws to stick anywhere in the big leagues, Horford is desired and admired in Boston once more, and he brought Schröder along with him for the ride this time. These ex-Hawks don’t get the All-Star love that Young received for his recent postseason exploits. But they can help secure a reserve spot for at least one Celtic star, and firm up postseason positioning, with continued cohesive play over the course of the next couple of weeks.

For the big playoff push – Tatum, and Brown, and then what? With a Nor’easter bearing down over the next few days back home, Bostonians and Bay Staters would thank their lucky stars for some quick-dissolving rain.

 

Let’s Go Hawks!

~lw3

FIRST! 

Ok, now I gotta read. I’ll be honest I been nearly stalking you on here @lethalweapon3   

[shakes]

Another game that feels like a must win if we're gonna move up the standings.

Hopefully we get out to a better start than the other night.   I want to see Hunter lock up Tatum.

Trae should go off, I don't see anyone in this lineup that can guard him.

[JayBirdHawk]

Let's get it!

 

 

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

Only Dwight Howard would be surprised to find that, in basketball, pine tar can’t help you gain an edge.

 bail bonds. Whatcha gonna do. 

 

4 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

That’s where former Atlanta Hawks Dennis Schröder and Al Horford could come in handy.

Where? @kg01 need a lightbulb screwed in in da sac I digress…

 

5 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

my head starts to hurt.

Ever black out a time period intentionally? 

 

6 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

LeBrongeles,

 

7 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

“betting on himself”

Where betting on yourself goes wrong chappelle  

 

8 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

With the punctual Robert Williams (

   

 

9 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

Stout defensive rebounding from starters John Collins

Yes sir, forget the stats he’s been contributing to winning ball love it.

 

10 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

emerging Onyeka Okongwu i

Beautiful @lethalweapon3 sorry @JeffS17 I went back to my dissecting old self. 

ps Hawks win by 1 on a put back dunk by Collins with 3.6 left off a Trae floater miss. 
 

Vegas has Hawks -1 and so did 2K. Whether 1 or 21, just get the W to make it WWWWWW to make it 6! Cuz as we all know..

[Spud2nique]

7 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Let's get it!

 

 

That gave me chillz and I don’t mean Josh Childress 

[Gray Mule]

Odds for a win, per ESPN:

CELTICS ---- 61.2

HAWKS ---- 38.8

Does this mean a loss for Atlanta?  Or, does it mean a real beat down by Boston?

We know that our visitor has a better record.  We also know that we've not been 100% healthy all season.  Our starters didn't look very good when they took the floor in our last game.  Hawks can't afford another start like that.

Posters on the BC board hope that one of their players foul Trae really, really hard.  That's how much they fear our little PG.  Hit him hard. Get him out of the game.  Really, that's their plan.  Don't misunderstand, this is their fans saying this, not the Celtics.  

GO ATL HAWKS !!

[djjob23]

Awesome writeup @lethalweapon3! Boston VERY vocal at shootaround about being locked in tonight. Remember they gave the Kings their 53 point loss a few days ago. WE'VE GOT TO BE READY!

A lot of disrespect being thrown around right now after the NBA All Star starters announcement. The NBA even forgetting this is Trae's SECOND career start (pointed out by @RedDawg#8). Look at the title:

 

Big game tonight as we fight for the playoffs! Expect some ICE in the forecast!
LET'S GO HAWWWWWKS!!!

[benhillboy]

Went from “no injured players” this morning to Dre and Gallo “day to day.”  Can’t even have one healthy team day dafuq man.

[kg01]

Aye @Spud2nique, my sources tell me Al Horford's estranged, Hawk-lovin' stepbrother Hal Horford may be making an appearance.  After a 3 year exile, management reinstated his account ... but I've already said too much.....

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[kg01]

14 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

"Al had a check made out to a 'Kelly WhOubre' laying around the house.  The memo read, "For: Bounty on Hunter cause I dont wanna end up on a milk carton like Donchich and them"." - Hal Horford

[Sothron]

This is a big test tonight. We need to keep crawling back to .500 and we need this one.

[Spud2nique]

6 minutes ago, Sothron said:

This is a big test tonight. We need to keep crawling back to .500 and we need this one.

That.. and I gotta be brutally honest here, I despise the Schmelts. 

[JayBirdHawk]

So I guess Bogi is still of the bench.  Maybe Bogi can be our 'Manu' from the bench.

 

[terrell]

AD and LBJ both out vs Charlotte..

So of course they'll both play in Atlanta... smh

 

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

So I guess Bogi is still of the bench.  Maybe Bogi can be our 'Manu' from the bench.

 

So if Hunter is out who starts? Dont say Knox or TLC....

[Sothron]

Just now, terrell said:

AD and LBJ both out vs Charlotte..

So of course they'll both play in Atlanta... smh

 

Definitely seems they are resting them just to play us.

[Spud2nique]

31 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Aye @Spud2nique, my sources tell me Al Horford's estranged, Hawk-lovin' stepbrother Hal Horford may be making an appearance.  After a 3 year exile, management reinstated his account ... but I've already said too much.....

You’re white hot today, I ain’t mad. Now, what’s Hal’s relationship with Anna Horford?  Did Anna embrace Boston again after they reunited, I tell ya, I’m having a hazy 🌫 Friday. 
 

[JayBirdHawk]

This is the Boxscore from our previous matchup"

Celtics vs. Hawks - Box Score - November 17, 2021 - ESPN

No Hunter and No Okongwu.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, terrell said:

AD and LBJ both out vs Charlotte..

So of course they'll both play in Atlanta... smh

 

So if Hunter is out who starts? Dont say Knox or TLC....

ok...I won't say

Spoiler

TLC