Hard pill thread

[AHF]

Just now, macdaddy said:

My guess is you can only do in the game what you have worked on.   I'm assuming this is the way he's played his whole life so developing a skill of really attacking the rim after you get to the NBA is difficult. 

Worth putting in the work.  Martin went from averaging just over 4 FTA/36 in his early 20's to nearly 10 FTA/36 at his peak a few years later.  Huerter is actually averaging a career low FTA/minute this year.  He needs to work on this very deliberately.  He has the tools he needs.

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

My guess is you can only do in the game what you have worked on.   I'm assuming this is the way he's played his whole life so developing a skill of really attacking the rim after you get to the NBA is difficult. 

 

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

Worth putting in the work.  Martin went from averaging just over 4 FTA/36 in his early 20's to nearly 10 FTA/36 at his peak a few years later.  Huerter is actually averaging a career low FTA/minute this year.  He needs to work on this very deliberately.  He has the tools he needs.

What was his FT rate like in college?

[Atlantaholic]

47 minutes ago, AHF said:

I don't know why he is so crazy low either.  He has decent hops and length.  Just seems to go out of his way to avoid contact.

I would love to force him to sit down and watch hours of Kevin Martin tape as a guy with similar size and athleticism who made bank at the line.

It's very strange but it's one thing that players don't usually make a massive leap in their careers. Low frequency FT shooters tend to stay that way, have no idea why that is, but it is. And what's funny is that Bogi is almost as bad as drawing shooting fouls as Kev. It's really the one thing that keeps them from being very efficient scorers. 

[macdaddy]

14 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

What was his FT rate like in college?

Great question.   He averaged .8 his freshman year and 3.1 his sophmore.  Minutes were relatively close so that's a big jump.   But we're in year 4 in the nba so what gives?

[Diesel]

If I may... Here's my list of things.

1.  Defend the corner three!!!   I know that for some it's a tactic to double the inside because you want to stop the easier points and if they can hit the corner three, live with that.  Well, that thinking is flawed.   Teams can hit the corner three and we've been getting scorched by teams whoose gameplan is to send somebody down the middle and pass out for the corner three.  Paul, VanVleet, and Luka all played it the same way. 
2. We need a bonafide slasher who can play defense!   We have a team full of three point shooters and that's how they play.  We are last or next to last in fast break scoring.  Why?  Because when we have break opportunities, our wings run for the three point line instead of the rim.   Last night I watched Kev and Bogi do that shit.  We are not the GS freakin Warriors. 
3. Play defense before the ball gets there!  The only player that is not playing reactionary defense is Clint.  And he gets scrutinized for playing defense.  When we play man, Clint plays his man.. and then something happens and he has to go cover somebody else who was ball watching. 

All in all, we're not a bad team.   We need some tweaks.  Yall can save the Nate, Clint, and JC hate.  We're not bad.   We need that slasher. 

[JTB]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I'll say what I said to start the season and many times since then.....we need one of dem 'wangs' to take the next step and the next guy.

We don't have a quarter back on defense to direct players to spots.

been on this ALL damn season and ain’t let up!

it’s true though! 

[Q45T]

Lmao… this topic funny as hell. Other than Hunter none of our wings can impact the game if their shots aren’t falling. None of them are consistent on defense because we got a bunch of shooters and one two-way player. Somebody else needs to go…

 

The reason teams can’t miss against us is clear as day… meanwhile we’re constantly getting chased off the 3pt line by any team with a pulse on defense.

[terrell]

Last night was disgusting. After the loss to Raps, OO came out and said something like "we just need to play like this and we can beat anyone" but obviously Trae and Co. are not entertained enough with doing the right stuff and executing the right plays in given circumstances. Perhaps they felt they could get home court advantage too easy, got bored, and decided to make it a challenge. U know? Dig themselves a deeper hole. On top of that, you add a little bit of national coverage and spotlights,  and TY mental insecurity and needing to prove to him self and to everyone else that he is worthy and better than "you know who", and the other players following his lead, jacking up bad shots one after another, turning the ball over, giving up offensive rebounds like Xmas gifts, and making every G League player look like HOF'ers,  and voila... "Chicken Hawks stew" boiled and served.

 

 

Also, coach Nate, please stop with this "grandpa loving his grandson and daughters" act ( yep they played last night as a bunch of spoiled brats ), take shit-stick in your hand and beat the hell out of somebody. Please start with Trae and Bogi. Those two set the tone for the first and second unit. And they did it in quite fashion. Embarrassing..

 

Another thing,  Is Bogi, Huerter  any better then Lou at this point in the same minutes? Can't Lou give us the same ppg that Huerter, or Bogi can?  No reason to have all 3. Find a deal...

 

Bogi is at 11 ppg with bad defense. Same with Kev..

 

Wes Iwundu, or more minutes for Delon Wright will all be an upgrade over those 2. Just based on defense alone...

 

There are over 100 players who are cheaper, can score 10 ppg in those minutes, and play much better defense.

 

Also, there is no one one our team good enough to keep OO below 24 minutes a game. So just like the Cam trade, can we get Gallo out to open minutes for OO?

 

We couldn't even take advantage of Luka or Brunson on offense. Shows how limited are players are off the dribble.

We either need to go all defense or trade for a legit scorer. 

 

Hunter is up for extension soon. OO thereafter. Trae, Huerter, Capela extensions kick in next year.

Hawks are pretty much capped out. Whether they pay the luxury tax or not is not the question, but what avenues Hawks have to improve? And there aren’t many imo.

Hawks are closer to having to sell off assets in the coming years than they are to winning a championship.....

 

Lastly, I find it fitting that on Tankathon the Hawks now appear for several teams on the “Easiest Opponents” remaining column. We may soon appear for several more, unless there is a positive change coming. smdh

Edited February 7, 2022 by terrell

[Atlantaholic]

When the team has played well it's been the wings that have played well, and when they don't it's because the wings are sucking. We need Hunter to become a good SF (hate to break it to the Squawk but he hasn't been) and Huerter and Bogi to be more consistent. 

[terrell]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

He avoids contact like the plague, even when he drives in the paint, he does a step back to shoot.

[terrell]

8 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

When the team has played well it's been the wings that have played well, and when they don't it's because the wings are sucking. We need Hunter to become a good SF (hate to break it to the Squawk but he hasn't been) and Huerter and Bogi to be more consistent. 

Yeah my untouchables list is getting smaller and smaller....

[Wretch]

6 hours ago, shakes said:

I know I've only been posting here a couple months, but i thought it was pretty obvious from my posts that I never look at data.   Heck, I don't even know where the internet stores it's data.    I'm all eye test all the time baby!

I'm an eye-test guy too.  You can tell the difference between guys who are really good at what they do and guys that are only good at it because of circumstance.  I do like looking at data, but I don't put a lot of worth into the more advanced statistics.  Overall, I put faith in the data's ability to solidify what your eyes are already telling you.  That being said, my hard pill that folks need to swallow...this team, even at its best, is not a contender - not unless we acquire a 1B or someone becomes a 1B. 

We ARE a good team and I love it for what it is.  Moreover, I don't want to trade anyone right now.  I just want this team to stay competitive and finish where we KNOW we should be...which is 4-6.  At that seed, this is solidly a middle of the pack team.  When firing on all cylinders, defense is turned up, shots are going down, and everyone is healthy, we're a 2nd round team.

I will backslide a little and say we could situationally find ourselves like we did last year.  To maintain that superiority, Trae will need to have his Robin.  To me, a prolific offense is the best defense.  You can try to force a stop on the other end or you can counter it with a back-breaking dagger of a 3.  The net result is the same, except you can always put a little more effort in on the defensive end.  If you're not good at scoring when it counts...then you're just not good at it.

[terrell]

45 minutes ago, Wretch said:

I'm an eye-test guy too.  You can tell the difference between guys who are really good at what they do and guys that are only good at it because of circumstance.  I do like looking at data, but I don't put a lot of worth into the more advanced statistics.  Overall, I put faith in the data's ability to solidify what your eyes are already telling you.  That being said, my hard pill that folks need to swallow...this team, even at its best, is not a contender - not unless we acquire a 1B or someone becomes a 1B. 

We ARE a good team and I love it for what it is.  Moreover, I don't want to trade anyone right now.  I just want this team to stay competitive and finish where we KNOW we should be...which is 4-6.  At that seed, this is solidly a middle of the pack team.  When firing on all cylinders, defense is turned up, shots are going down, and everyone is healthy, we're a 2nd round team.

I will backslide a little and say we could situationally find ourselves like we did last year.  To maintain that superiority, Trae will need to have his Robin.  To me, a prolific offense is the best defense.  You can try to force a stop on the other end or you can counter it with a back-breaking dagger of a 3.  The net result is the same, except you can always put a little more effort in on the defensive end.  If you're not good at scoring when it counts...then you're just not good at it.

Yeah Im a eye test person too.......

And my eyes tell me The Hawks have reached their peak with this roster. We are going to have to make a change this year or next...............................

Edited February 8, 2022 by terrell

[RedDawg#8]

Nate has to step it up too.

You can't preach defense first and claim you want to establish a defensive identity when a healthy OO is watching a JC /Gallo lineup from the bench in the 1st quarter.

We should go from CC to OO to CC for 48 minutes every game.

If Cleveland can get away with playing 3 bigs together every game, we surely can figure out other ways to get Gallo his minutes.

Also, every team has a gameplan on how to defend Trae and attack him defensively, yet we seem clueless as to how to defend stars and attack mismatches against our opponents.

Our strategy, Dre guards the best player on an island, hide Trae on a shooter, let our Bigs clean up mistakes. This is easily exploited with teams who can set good screens and move the ball. Why can't we be proactive and blitz other teams stars BEFORE they get in to a rhythm? Why do our wings still leave shooters just to make a non-effective show attempt in the lane? 

We know JC or Dre will get an undersized defender every game. Why is it next to impossible to find them the ball and punish teams for this?

Lastly. Our shooters need to shoot. The ball finds them clean too often for them to think they need to dance on the 3point line just to still shoot contested shots. Shoot it, pass it, or put it on the floor going to the rim. All these fall away, step back, side step 3's are why our good shooters look like mediocre ones. Delon, you need to shoot the ball too sir. You are open, take the shot.

That's all on Coaching. We have too many bad habits and not enough smart habits. We rely too much on being bailed by individuals out on both ends of the floor. We need better team  execution. We need Nate to embrace adjustments and not wait until it's too late to switch things up. No more Calm, cool nonsense. These guys are lacking urgency and it's painfully obvious. They have to come out swinging each game if we want to climb out of this hole.

We are so much better than this it's not even funny. Everyone has to lock in, coaching included. 

[HawkingAwesome]

Hawks need a lotto pick more than a playoff appearance 

[macdaddy]

15 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

When the team has played well it's been the wings that have played well, and when they don't it's because the wings are sucking. We need Hunter to become a good SF (hate to break it to the Squawk but he hasn't been) and Huerter and Bogi to be more consistent. 

2 sentences.   The rest of the thread has been owned by these 2 sentences.   

[JeffS17]

I think JC is severely overrated as a locker room piece and team leader.  I think fans see him yelling and clapping and doing bucket celebrations and assume he is vocal and emotional leader, but the guys on the floor don't necessarily see it the same way.  I think he can be a bit over the top and it rubs Trae and others the wrong way.  This is one of the reasons I think Trae would be fine shipping JC out for another star player and one of non-basketball reasons I think Travis perpetually has JC in trade talks.  All speculation on my part, mostly based on body language and statements / interviews, but this thread seems like a good one to put that opinion into the universe.

[Diesel]

15 hours ago, terrell said:

Yeah Im a eye test person too.......

And my eyes tell me The Hawks have reached their peak with this roster. We are going to have to make a change this year or next...............................

Which Peak is that?

Beating Phoenix or losing to Toronto?

Which peak is that... making it to the ECF and being two games away from a Finals appearance that we probably would have won if healthy. 

Do I think we're perfect.. No.

I think we're young.  I think we are much better than we have shown.  I think when we are healthy, we are a very hard team to beat.  I think if we make it to the playoffs ... past the play in, we're going to be really hard to beat in a 7 game series. 

[Diesel]

14 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I think JC is severely overrated as a locker room piece and team leader.  I think fans see him yelling and clapping and doing bucket celebrations and assume he is vocal and emotional leader, but the guys on the floor don't necessarily see it the same way.  I think he can be a bit over the top and it rubs Trae and others the wrong way.  This is one of the reasons I think Trae would be fine shipping JC out for another star player and one of non-basketball reasons I think Travis perpetually has JC in trade talks.  All speculation on my part, mostly based on body language and statements / interviews, but this thread seems like a good one to put that opinion into the universe.

It's not just what the fans see, it's what the GM has said. Travis Schlenk has called JC "The heart and soul" of our team.  But that doesn't matter.  I would be happy if Lou and Gallo were the voices in the lockerroom.  Our young players need to hear from older guys about how long this window stays open and how you don't get many chances.  I guarantee you that hearing from CP3 is what has Phoenix playing above their individual abilities. 

Moreover, I don't doubt that JC is on the blocks.  Travis came out and said (a while ago) that the only person who was untouchable was Trae.  Teams see what JC brings and probably want him.  I mean, 17/9.. with a high 3 pt% and a strong finisher at the rim.  Other teams are licking their lips at the prospect of Getting JC for cheap and making him an allstar.  Hawks fans don't appreciate what JC brings.  You don't get stretch 4s with his motor everyday.  The fact that he has to beg for plays to be run his way is a crime. 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

I think JC is severely overrated as a locker room piece and team leader.  I think fans see him yelling and clapping and doing bucket celebrations and assume he is vocal and emotional leader, but the guys on the floor don't necessarily see it the same way.  I think he can be a bit over the top and it rubs Trae and others the wrong way.  This is one of the reasons I think Trae would be fine shipping JC out for another star player and one of non-basketball reasons I think Travis perpetually has JC in trade talks.  All speculation on my part, mostly based on body language and statements / interviews, but this thread seems like a good one to put that opinion into the universe.

Just saying.....from Schlenk's June 2021 interview:

Hawks general manager Travis Schlenk called Collins “the heart and soul of the team” on “The Jim Rome Show” last week. While Trae Young is viewed as the team’s best player, Collins is the emotional leader inside the locker room for Atlanta. He’s the one in the middle of the huddle prior to the game, breaking it down, the guy who’s unafraid to speak his mind, both good and bad.

Collins is known throughout the Hawks organization as this vibrant, happy person to be around. He’s the player the franchise goes to when it needs a representative at a community event or someone to shake the hand of some important figure.