Lukastans are biting at the bit to take a shot at Trae

[JTB]

Y’all blaming Ayton really need to rewatch at least the highlights of game 7. I just rewatched this whole game because Ayton seems to be oddly getting all the attention but the fact is just like the Jazz series this is a result of TERRIBLE perimeter defense that was displayed in this loss! ….very very bad perimeter defense! …and CP3 and Booker were just as bad as Ayton.
 

On Luka:

Luka got in everyone’s ass not just Ayton. Luka hit 2 fadeaways over Ayton and this is no different then when luka posted and made a few inside shots on Gobert. Luka is a great player he’s going to find a way to score on single coverage like any great player would! I can’t stand his ass but no one on the suns did good vs him including mikal bridges their best perimeter defender…Luka lit his ass up too! It is what it is.

On Perimeter Defense:

Hear me and hear me good folks!

Ayton was out on the perimeter way too often in this game just like Gobert was last series vs the mavs then when shit goes wrong they are blamed solely and that’s just idiotic.

While I do believe Gobert is a more impactful defender all around and especially around the goal more so than Ayton it doesn’t matter if your perimeter defense is butt cheeks and the opponent is constantly forcing these guys away from the basket defensively where they are their best !
especially in the playoffs..: Gobert, Ayton, Capela, etc centers who are solid to great on defense should not be on the perimeter so often! The perimeter defenders have to fight over screens and stay in front of their man.

Bam is so next generational with his ability to switch and actually stay on the perimeter for long periods, that I think Bam makes others believe all good defensive centers should be able to hang on the perimeter defensively for long periods throughout the game and that’s just unrealistic for majority centers including Gobert.

(This would be a good time to mention that OO like Hunter is untradable)

Perimeter defense I hope is a huge focus this off season for our Hawks because not only are we seeing it as an issue for other elite teams (bucks and suns) but honestly every good defensive big man need a good perimeter defense period….it all goes together!….just like a great playmaker need his good shooters and finishers around him.

People love a headline….”Luka shot over 7’1 Ayton!”….”Luka posted up and made a basket over 7’2 Gobert!”……here’s a headline “Why can’t the perimeter guys do their job and stay in front of Luka???!!”…..”Why is the good defensive center expected to guard a damn good perimeter offensive scorer??? Make it make sense!”

 

On the importance of a Big SF:

The suns do not have any big perimeter defensive threats. While Mikal Bridges defense is elite it’s times like this series where you want a bigger perimeter defender on guys like Doncic, Butler, etc ……that’s not to say those players would get locked down but I’d rather have a good big physical defender on these type then the smaller frame good defenders for physical and strength reasons. This is why Hunter can’t be traded and that can’t be stressed enough.

 

Aytons offensive opportunities:

I don’t understand how Ayton is so called “playing soft” when he’s not even getting a fair amount of opportunities for his  offensive skill set. It’s the oddest thing in the world but the suns have a big man threat that only took 5 shots and then idiotically was pulled due to “Internal”….let me tell y’all this …Ayton offensively is way better than Gobert but that’s not news I want to share ….SO here’s my point…even if the Suns had Gobert who’s not gifted offensively I STILL would expect some inside scoring efforts at the goal since the jumpshooting was epically failing all game!. Yet it never occurred to CP3 point gawd or COY Monty to space out the floor and allow Ayton to go to work on his opponent in effort to score or maybe even suck in the defense for better looks????.…INSTEAD 3 after 3 and mid ranger after mid ranger  ….the suns settled and died by the jumper YET they have a skilled center who can get inside shots…you cannot make that make sense.

 

 

[NBASupes]

47 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

Did you think Travis was a failure last year?

His offseason moves spoke to this year and our future so he shouldn't be judged on last year outside of last year. 

[NBASupes]

51 minutes ago, JTB said:

Y’all blaming Ayton really need to rewatch at least the highlights of game 7. I just rewatched this whole game because Ayton seems to be oddly getting all the attention but the fact is just like the Jazz series this is a result of TERRIBLE perimeter defense that was displayed in this loss! ….very very bad perimeter defense! …and CP3 and Booker were just as bad as Ayton.
 

On Luka:

Luka got in everyone’s ass not just Ayton. Luka hit 2 fadeaways over Ayton and this is no different then when luka posted and made a few inside shots on Gobert. Luka is a great player he’s going to find a way to score on single coverage like any great player would! I can’t stand his ass but no one on the suns did good vs him including mikal bridges their best perimeter defender…Luka lit his ass up too! It is what it is.

On Perimeter Defense:

Hear me and hear me good folks!

Ayton was out on the perimeter way too often in this game just like Gobert was last series vs the mavs then when shit goes wrong they are blamed solely and that’s just idiotic.

While I do believe Gobert is a more impactful defender all around and especially around the goal more so than Ayton it doesn’t matter if your perimeter defense is butt cheeks and the opponent is constantly forcing these guys away from the basket defensively where they are their best !
especially in the playoffs..: Gobert, Ayton, Capela, etc centers who are solid to great on defense should not be on the perimeter so often! The perimeter defenders have to fight over screens and stay in front of their man.

Bam is so next generational with his ability to switch and actually stay on the perimeter for long periods, that I think Bam makes others believe all good defensive centers should be able to hang on the perimeter defensively for long periods throughout the game and that’s just unrealistic for majority centers including Gobert.

(This would be a good time to mention that OO like Hunter is untradable)

Perimeter defense I hope is a huge focus this off season for our Hawks because not only are we seeing it as an issue for other elite teams (bucks and suns) but honestly every good defensive big man need a good perimeter defense period….it all goes together!….just like a great playmaker need his good shooters and finishers around him.

People love a headline….”Luka shot over 7’1 Ayton!”….”Luka posted up and made a basket over 7’2 Gobert!”……here’s a headline “Why can’t the perimeter guys do their job and stay in front of Luka???!!”…..”Why is the good defensive center expected to guard a damn good perimeter offensive scorer??? Make it make sense!”

 

On the importance of a Big SF:

The suns do not have any big perimeter defensive threats. While Mikal Bridges defense is elite it’s times like this series where you want a bigger perimeter defender on guys like Doncic, Butler, etc ……that’s not to say those players would get locked down but I’d rather have a good big physical defender on these type then the smaller frame good defenders for physical and strength reasons. This is why Hunter can’t be traded and that can’t be stressed enough.

 

Aytons offensive opportunities:

I don’t understand how Ayton is so called “playing soft” when he’s not even getting a fair amount of opportunities for his  offensive skill set. It’s the oddest thing in the world but the suns have a big man threat that only took 5 shots and then idiotically was pulled due to “Internal”….let me tell y’all this …Ayton offensively is way better than Gobert but that’s not news I want to share ….SO here’s my point…even if the Suns had Gobert who’s not gifted offensively I STILL would expect some inside scoring efforts at the goal since the jumpshooting was epically failing all game!. Yet it never occurred to CP3 point gawd or COY Monty to space out the floor and allow Ayton to go to work on his opponent in effort to score or maybe even suck in the defense for better looks????.…INSTEAD 3 after 3 and mid ranger after mid ranger  ….the suns settled and died by the jumper YET they have a skilled center who can get inside shots…you cannot make that make sense.

 

 

Did you watch the game?

 

He was horrible. He had no fight. Less fight than Devin or CP3 had. He played dumb out there. He couldn't handle pressure on the ball. His defense was weak. He was getting attacked around the paint as well. It wasn't pretty at all. In fact, he got abused. 

 

I agree with the non Ayton parts of your post. Especially Atlanta can't trade Hunter or Okongwu.

Edited May 16, 2022 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

I still don't see a single deal I would do that includes Dre. I'll do a JC and Huerter deal for Gobert. If you trade Hunter, you almost immediately have to get Simmons or you can't win. 

You gotta have three things to win especially against east teams

A center who can defend the paint and his man

You gotta have a big wing who can defend at a high level other big wings

You gotta have no offensively weak players on the court because they just get abused in the playoffs by defenses doubling off of them.

 

Chris has a hardon for JC but he's probably the most tradable Hawk on the roster and it's not close for me and yes, I think he's the best outside of Trae. It's just when it comes to playoff Basketball. His lack of size and lack of positional versatility always makes him a tough play with Trae. 

You gotta have guys like Okongwu who can move their feet but strong enough to lock in on Giannis and make Tatum work. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by NBASupes

[JTB]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Did you watch the game?

 

He was horrible. He had no fight. Less fight than Devin or CP3 had. He played dumb out there. He couldn't handle pressure on the ball. His defense was weak. He was getting attacked around the paint as well. It wasn't pretty at all. In fact, he got abused. 

 

I agree with the non Ayton parts of your post. Especially Atlanta can't trade Hunter or Okongwu.

I did and I encourage you to rewatch it. All of Phx was bad not just Ayton.

I didn’t see effort from anyone including the beloved CP3 and Booker but Ayton was only pulled cause he chose to have words with the COY.

[bleachkit]

Despite the ugly loss, I expect the Suns to basically run it back.

[JTB]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I still don't see a single deal I would do that includes Dre. I'll do a JC and Huerter deal for Gobert. If you trade Hunter, you almost immediately have to get Simmons or you can't win. 

You gotta have three things to win especially against east teams

A center who can defend the paint and his man

You gotta have a big wing who can defend at a high level other big wings

You gotta have no offensively weak players on the court because they just get abused in the playoffs by defenses doubling off of them.

 

Chris has a hardon for JC but he's probably the most tradable Hawk on the roster and it's not close for me and yes, I think he's the best outside of Trae. It's just when it comes to playoff Basketball. His lack of size and lack of positional versatility always makes him a tough play with Trae. 

You gotta have guys like Okongwu who can move their feet but strong enough to lock in on Giannis and make Tatum work. 

I thought this too but the more I think about it the less I believe it’s good to trade JC. We should first attempt to trade capela and Huerter or Bogi to see if that bites for either Ayton or Gobert.

if it doesn’t I then understand why JC has to be the main trade target.

The problem with building around Trae and Gobert is that you HAVE to find another player who can handle the ball an either truly score or playmake . I agree that Trae and Gobert would be  an awesome tandem no doubt but I believe that with Trae and Ayton as well except finding another go to guy will not be a priority if you trade and get Ayton.

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Despite the ugly loss, I expect the Suns to basically run it back.

That's not allowed...I thought the rule was if you lose in the playoffs, you have to start over or at the very least make sweeping changes.  May be this is a Hawk rule. Never mind.

[lethalweapon3]

7 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Sorry but curious as to how someone would know if we bashed in a PM? Aren’t PM’s meant to be discrete and private? Asking for a friend.

 

PMs, however discreet, can violate site Guidelines, too. Person B is free to share communication from Person A to Mods (via the advanced technology of copy 'n paste) if B perceives the content to include personal threats, harassments or personally offensive vulgarities. B is under no obligation to relay such discourse, but can do so if they wish the Mods to review it for purposes of intervention. If B instead retaliates by resorting to their own site Guidelines violations, B risks being subject to Mod intervention, too, if A chooses to share the retaliatory replies via advanced technology.

 

~lw3

[kg01]

32 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Despite the ugly loss, I expect the Suns to basically run it back.

Had the best record in the league.  Itdbe pretty hard to justify major changes other than getting rid of Ayton.  In fairness though, they set the stage for that last offseason.

30 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

That's not allowed...I thought the rule was if you lose in the playoffs, you have to start over or at the very least make sweeping changes.  May be this is a Hawk rule. Never mind.

You're so weird, peo.  Sometimes I totally agree with you, other times I have no clue what you're talking about. 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

You're so weird, peo. 

I consider this a personal attack. 

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I consider this a personal attack. 

Eh, atleast let me get my money's worth before you go to the mods.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

Eh, atleast let me get my money's worth before you go to the mods.

But in all seriousness my point is that we don't fully know the potential of this roster but yet we want to sell the farm just to acquire more expensive parts.  Some of the parts make no sense like Simmons or Ayton because they represent no up grade over the current players and in the case with Simmons, the guy is just flat out damaged goods.  I readily admit that this was not the best season for the Hawks but there were plausible reason for the team's under performance.  Having said that would I love to trade out Bogdanovich for a more useful 2 way shooting guard?  Absolutely!  Am I tired of Capela's chronic injuries?  H-ll yes.  Am I going to pay $40 mil for his replacement who isn't much better than what he is and then throw in another valuable player like Collins/Hunter to acquire this replacement?  That would be stupid.  I just think that a productive offseason of development will transformative for this team.

[NBASupes]

I want to apologize to the statement I made on our fans. I guess Hawks Twitter and Reddit irked me too much and I said some disparaging things about the collective. Its wasn't a total knock to you guys, you guys are a lot smarter than them.

I am just going to he honest. 

I don't see how Mitchell and Trae will work. Defense is too awful and there is only one ball. Someone will be just there standing. I dont see how that's a formula to winning.

I also don't like Ayton floor which is my biggest issue with him. I do believe he has upside, especially in a system that would spam him like ours. That said, his floor is low like Trae's. I rather a Gobert who might not have the two way upside of Ayton or age on his side but he's extremely consistent and his floor is exceptionally high. 

When I hear fans truly think we need creators more than better bigs, I listen to them like how? Do you watch us? I guess not. 

We don't really use our guards and wings like that outside of small roles like Dallas does outside of Brunson, Dinwiddie, and Luka. 

We use our bigs a lot more than most teams which is why JC is our leaders in touches outside of Trae and Capela gets the most involved actions of any of our players. If we just upgrade our most key used positions, we would technically have all of the upgrades needed.

Edited May 16, 2022 by NBASupes

[Spud2nique]

16 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I am just going to he honest. 

[kg01]

16 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

But in all seriousness my point is that we don't fully know the potential of this roster but yet we want to sell the farm just to acquire more expensive parts.  Some of the parts make no sense like Simmons or Ayton because they represent no up grade over the current players and in the case with Simmons, the guy is just flat out damaged goods.  I readily admit that this was not the best season for the Hawks but there were plausible reason for the team's under performance.  Having said that would I love to trade out Bogdanovich for a more useful 2 way shooting guard?  Absolutely!  Am I tired of Capela's chronic injuries?  H-ll yes.  Am I going to pay $40 mil for his replacement who isn't much better than what he is and then throw in another valuable player like Collins/Hunter to acquire this replacement?  That would be stupid.  I just think that a productive offseason of development will transformative for this team.

See this is one of those times when we don't disagree (much).

I think Ayton is an upgrade but is certainly a different kind of player.  Agree, although Gobert is an upgrade, he's not worth paying $40+more million for it.

Also agree that turning Bogd into a better, more consistently available 2 would help.

I gotta give mild kudos to the guy @NBASupes for apologizing for disparaging the collective consciousness of Hawks fans.  I'm still givin' him the stink eye for a while longer tho.

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, kg01 said:

See this is one of those times when we don't disagree (much).

I think Ayton is an upgrade but is certainly a different kind of player.  Agree, although Gobert is an upgrade, he's not worth paying $40+more million for it.

Also agree that turning Bogd into a better, more consistently available 2 would help.

 

You must be weird like me then!

[Spud2nique]

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I'm still givin' him the stink eye for a while longer tho.

Everytime I wanna be legit mad at Supes I can’t. Even his apologies are kinda funny when read aloud. 
 

i.e. I wanna apologize for calling all you guys pieces of crap. Reddit had me boilin , you’re not all pieces of crap. But I won’t apologize for my excitement of Alice playing out of his jurisdiction and if you want me to then your $hitty.

 

[bleachkit]

Obviously Luka and Trae are not the same. The biggest difference being size, although statistically speaking ( usage, points, assists) they are similar. Luka is not a great defender, but Dallas has figured out how to build a solid defensive outfit around him. Can we do the same? I'm not sure, but it's clear watching these playoffs, if you want to win you got to play defense. 

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Obviously Luka and Trae are not the same. The biggest difference being size, although statistically speaking ( usage, points, assists) they are similar. Luka is not a great defender, but Dallas has figured out how to build a solid defensive outfit around him. Can we do the same? I'm not sure, but it's clear watching these playoffs, if you want to win you got to play defense. 

Luka is limited on defense due to his lack of athleticism but he's like a bigger Harden on that end. He's smart, especially at reading the ball handler. He's strong and physical so you can't bully him. He has elite hands in terms of steals and deflections. He always in the right spots even if he occasionally gets abused in those spots. 

I don't even think it's fair to say his defense is bad in a Trae sense but in a sense for superstars, Luka is limited defensively. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by NBASupes