Official Game Thread: Bucks at Hawks

[gurpilo]

hace 5 horas, JeffS17 dijo:

 

I feel like having a continuous cycle of contributing young guys is key to sustained success.  If you don't have at least two bench guys on rookie scale deals that are contributing, it's very hard to field a "high value" lineup where talent is greater than the hit to our cap space.  So unless Ressler is willing to show he's emptying his pockets, we will always need contributing young guys who are valuable pieces on their rookie scale deals.  I believe it was @NBASupes(?) who stressed the value of the 15-25 pick range because of how cheap those rookie deals are and how much value you can find in that range.  Having good players isn't quite enough when you have to pay them market.

 

Exactly! That is the reason why was so important to give JJ minutes last year, TLC minutes. That is the reason why is so important to give AJ minutes.

I don’t know if Hawks management are realizing about the chance we have to build a contending roster. We have 3 players on rookie contract that can contribute and are playing winning basketball, JJ, AJ, OO, that is exceptionally rare and gives an unprecedented chance to fill a roster with quality vets and build a winning and deep roster.

Additionally we have a set starting lineup, a capable backup PG and a great bench SG. 

Considering the starting lineup of Trae/DJM/Hunter/Collins and Capela

A bench with Aaron Holiday/Bogi/Griffin /JJ/Okongwu…

We don’t need Justin Holiday, Frank or Krejcy money on those positions, we need that money on a quality defensive big, like Bamba or even Whiteside or Cousins. Never hurts to have a wing like Holiday although we can fill that gap with Martin but we really need a center with size for certain matchups. Add Bamba, Whiteside, Cousins or a quality big and we can be a dangerous team. Look at the roles that  Drummond, Robin Lopez or Deandre Jordan are playing, they impact on wins.

With this roster is clear what is the position we need to look at on next draft, unless there is a cannot pass guy at that position.

[kg01]

3 hours ago, marco102 said:

@kg01 and @Spud2nique

Did you guys happen to listen to NBA radio when they were discussing the game today? 

Scalz (sp) has already started the national narratives, that the Hawks play better without Trae. 

Frank didn't agree with him and then he backed down and started talking about physicality. 

I hate that as long as DJM plays well, this is going to be the narrative.  

Yeah I just glossed over it.  It's a theme folks are just itching to run with.

[cam1218]

4 hours ago, marco102 said:

@kg01 and @Spud2nique

Did you guys happen to listen to NBA radio when they were discussing the game today? 

Scalz (sp) has already started the national narratives, that the Hawks play better without Trae. 

Frank didn't agree with him and then he backed down and started talking about physicality. 

I hate that as long as DJM plays well, this is going to be the narrative.  

Mavericks were better without Luka last year, or it was very close. Either way, I’m sure the league is hoping they get the Hawks when Trae is healthy instead of hurt lol. 

[909]

The Hawks made the Bucks look slow and smalller than in the past. The young bigs outplayed Lopez and Portis and slowed down the freak. These matchups look promising in the future. The real problem with the Bucks has been Holiday and Middleton.

[AHF]

8 hours ago, marco102 said:

@kg01 and @Spud2nique

Did you guys happen to listen to NBA radio when they were discussing the game today? 

Scalz (sp) has already started the national narratives, that the Hawks play better without Trae. 

Frank didn't agree with him and then he backed down and started talking about physicality. 

I hate that as long as DJM plays well, this is going to be the narrative.  

Funny how one game and they are busting that out but Memphis is better without Ja over a much larger 25 game sample last year and they never bring it up.  They are really data driven, huh?

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, gurpilo said:

That is the reason why was so important to give JJ minutes last year, TLC minutes. That is the reason why is so important to give AJ minutes.

The greatest ability is availability. 

Moreover, what you do in practice obviously matters.   For all the talk about how Nate doesn't play Rookies, nobody has said a word about AJ's minutes?  AJ has played 12 mpg and has played in most of the games that he was available to play.   But does anybody say anything about that. .. nope.. Crickets. 

Jalen has played in every game he was available to play.. has anybody said a word about it? Nope.. Crickets. 

So last year, while Jalen was oft injured or sick and took himself to the G-League twice... nobody says a word about that... only that he should have had TLC minutes.  Bullshit.   The greatest ability is availability... and What did JJ look like in practice?

Here's one more thing.  Griff Money is miles ahead of any of the last people we have drafted in terms of BBIQ.   Even Hunter.   What do you expect from a coach's son?

 

 

[gurpilo]

hace 2 horas, Diesel dijo:

The greatest ability is availability. 

Moreover, what you do in practice obviously matters.   For all the talk about how Nate doesn't play Rookies, nobody has said a word about AJ's minutes?  AJ has played 12 mpg and has played in most of the games that he was available to play.   But does anybody say anything about that. .. nope.. Crickets. 

Jalen has played in every game he was available to play.. has anybody said a word about it? Nope.. Crickets. 

So last year, while Jalen was oft injured or sick and took himself to the G-League twice... nobody says a word about that... only that he should have had TLC minutes.  Bullshit.   The greatest ability is availability... and What did JJ look like in practice?

Here's one more thing.  Griff Money is miles ahead of any of the last people we have drafted in terms of BBIQ.   Even Hunter.   What do you expect from a coach's son?

 

 

JJ was available most of the season, playing a lot of games on G league when TLC was playing for the Hawks.

Is important how he looked on practice, but you are just guessing he was looking bad, none of us were there. Facts are he looked really good on G league and he is looking good on NBA this year. Coaching staff need to evaluate potential and if they see It they need to invest on It, even if the first games are bad. Is very common rookies look bad at the beginning and improve as season progress. Even GS is playing Moody and Kuminga significant minutes.

[Final_quest]

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

The greatest ability is availability. 

Moreover, what you do in practice obviously matters.   For all the talk about how Nate doesn't play Rookies, nobody has said a word about AJ's minutes?  AJ has played 12 mpg and has played in most of the games that he was available to play.   But does anybody say anything about that. .. nope.. Crickets. 

Jalen has played in every game he was available to play.. has anybody said a word about it? Nope.. Crickets. 

So last year, while Jalen was oft injured or sick and took himself to the G-League twice... nobody says a word about that... only that he should have had TLC minutes.  Bullshit.   The greatest ability is availability... and What did JJ look like in practice?

Here's one more thing.  Griff Money is miles ahead of any of the last people we have drafted in terms of BBIQ.   Even Hunter.   What do you expect from a coach's son?

 

 

It was either play Jalen or play to get in the playoffs.

[JayBirdHawk]

Good stuff on JJ

 

 

[Gray Mule]

Monday - Hawks meet, and beat, the #1 team in the east.

Wednesday - Hawks will meet the #1 team in the west.

Look:  Hawks have a pretty good team.  They did well Monday.

Onyeka Okongwu, Jalen Johnson, Justin Holiday, AJ Griffin and Aaron Holiday.

Yes, this Hawk team played well and we expect a repeat tonight.  If Atlanta wins tonight it will be up to this team to supply the spark.  Can the west's #1 stand up to this team?  

[AtLaS]

10 hours ago, AHF said:

Funny how one game and they are busting that out but Memphis is better without Ja over a much larger 25 game sample last year and they never bring it up.  They are really data driven, huh?

It's like people have never watched playoff basketball before.  You need players who can get buckets on the road, to stop momentum, or when the rest of the team is shaky and nervous b/c of the atmosphere, or someone who can get to the FT line for points.  Trae does all of that.  He DRAGGED us to the ECF without Hunter or Bogi being healthy.  Even the game 7 against Philly where he was so "bad", he made the big shots and FTs down the stretch to win us that game.  He is a closer.

Grizz should trade Ja b/c they are better without him, Hawks should trade Trae, Mavs should trade Luka, etc it's just dumb.  

Some ppl even said the Bucks were better without Giannis 2 years ago b/c he got injured against us and they won the final 2 games without him, then lost the first 2 against PHX when he returned.  

 

Teams can get up for one game or a week of games without their star.  Sustaining that over an entire season is a completely different story.  And in the playoffs it's COMPLETELY different.  

[AHF]

10 hours ago, Diesel said:

The greatest ability is availability. 

Moreover, what you do in practice obviously matters.   For all the talk about how Nate doesn't play Rookies, nobody has said a word about AJ's minutes?  AJ has played 12 mpg and has played in most of the games that he was available to play.   But does anybody say anything about that. .. nope.. Crickets. 

Jalen has played in every game he was available to play.. has anybody said a word about it? Nope.. Crickets. 

So last year, while Jalen was oft injured or sick and took himself to the G-League twice... nobody says a word about that... only that he should have had TLC minutes.  Bullshit.   The greatest ability is availability... and What did JJ look like in practice?

Here's one more thing.  Griff Money is miles ahead of any of the last people we have drafted in terms of BBIQ.   Even Hunter.   What do you expect from a coach's son?

 

 

A lot of  us were complaining about AJ not getting enough minutes coming into the last game.  He was on pace to get less than 370 total minutes for the season before Nate set him loose against the Bucks.  That was exactly in line with what I feared Nate might do.  Trae's injury and the gameflow forced him into giving AJ legit run and AJ's performance should prevent him from burying him on the bench again.  He needs to be part of the regular rotation regardless of who else is healthy.

You and I have been over the details on JJ.  He was more available than you claim but definitely had limited availability.  Can't say what JJ looked like in practice.  We just fundamentally disagree on the value of developing someone like him when he is available so nothing more to be said on that one.

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, gurpilo said:

JJ was available most of the season, playing a lot of games on G league when TLC was playing for the Hawks.

Is important how he looked on practice, but you are just guessing he was looking bad, none of us were there. Facts are he looked really good on G league and he is looking good on NBA this year. Coaching staff need to evaluate potential and if they see It they need to invest on It, even if the first games are bad. Is very common rookies look bad at the beginning and improve as season progress. Even GS is playing Moody and Kuminga significant minutes.

You started off wrong.  JJ was not available for most of the season.  He had two bouts with Covid.  He had a Glute injury.  He had a knee Injury.   He took himself to G-League the first time when TLC wasn't even playing.   The second time when Knox was getting more minutes than TLC.

It's a great narrative that you're trying to build, but it's not the truth.   Maybe you looked at March games and saw JJ on the sidelines and TLC in the game and felt that it was like that the whole season...  Sorry.. No... Didn't happen that way. 

Since you want to build your Narrative around TLC..> Let's take a deep dive...

Split	Value	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	3P	3PA	FT	FTA	ORB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS		FG%	3P%	FT%		TS%	USG%	ORtg	DRtg	+/-		MP	PTS	TRB	AST
Month	October	3	0	12	0	4	0	2	1	2	0	3	2	0	0	1	0	1		.000	.000	.500		.102	20.6	38	110	-23.1		4.0	0.3	1.0	0.7
	November	11	0	41	7	17	5	12	4	4	0	5	2	2	0	1	5	23		.412	.417	1.000		.613	21.6	102	111	-12.0		3.7	2.1	0.5	0.2
	December	8	8	225	22	58	14	38	5	5	5	23	10	5	3	4	23	63		.379	.368	1.000		.523	12.4	107	122	-3.2		28.1	7.9	2.9	1.3
	January	11	4	158	18	40	11	31	7	9	3	15	11	4	0	7	18	54		.450	.355	.778		.614	14.4	107	123	-4.9		14.4	4.9	1.4	1.0
	February	4	0	19	3	11	2	4	0	0	1	3	1	2	1	0	0	8		.273	.500			.364	24.5	86	109	-2.7		4.7	2.0	0.8	0.3
	March	11	4	164	18	40	10	25	14	15	5	24	10	4	2	6	22	60		.450	.400	.933		.644	13.7	125	118	+3.4		14.9	5.5	2.2	0.9
	April	4	2	66	6	16	2	10	4	6	3	9	4	1	0	1	8	18		.375	.200

 

These are TLC's Spiltes.

Notice he played 225 minutes in December...

Why?  Because everybody had COVID and we had to play Somebody.  That somebody was TLC...

O But you say.. .we could have given those minutes to JJ...

Not when JJ had COVID too!

Notice for the whole month of Feb, TLC played 19 minutes.  I mean, I know that Feb is a short month but 19 Minutes?  Damn.. this is the guy who was taking all of JJ's minutes?  But in Feb, TLC wasn't playing... why not play JJ.

Well, he was in the G-League and around Feb 8, injured his glute. 

Came off injury in March.

March 12-16 played with the Skyhawks.  Was called up after that. 

You're Nate.  You are pushing for the playoffs.   Do you play Knox, who has shown that he's not that good.  TLC, who is steady.  Or Jalen who you haven't seen play at all on this level because he's always injured....

Keep the Narrative going though... It's entertaining, I just hope people don't take it as fact.   It's like when I was younger, I played Tecmo Bowl and this guy kept beating me with Cap Boso (Chicago).   He'd do the post across the middle and it always worked.  One day i watched the Bears play.  Cap Boso wasn't good at all.   That's your narrative. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JeffS17]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Good stuff on JJ

 

 

Great thread but #6 made me laugh.  "Always seems to know where the ball will fall..." and the clip is a huge brick directly off the backboard that doesn't touch rim hahah.  

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, AtLaS said:

It's like people have never watched playoff basketball before.  You need players who can get buckets on the road, to stop momentum, or when the rest of the team is shaky and nervous b/c of the atmosphere, or someone who can get to the FT line for points.  Trae does all of that.  He DRAGGED us to the ECF without Hunter or Bogi being healthy.  Even the game 7 against Philly where he was so "bad", he made the big shots and FTs down the stretch to win us that game.  He is a closer.

Grizz should trade Ja b/c they are better without him, Hawks should trade Trae, Mavs should trade Luka, etc it's just dumb.  

Some ppl even said the Bucks were better without Giannis 2 years ago b/c he got injured against us and they won the final 2 games without him, then lost the first 2 against PHX when he returned.  

 

Teams can get up for one game or a week of games without their star.  Sustaining that over an entire season is a completely different story.  And in the playoffs it's COMPLETELY different.  

you pointed out something that needs to be Screamed to the rooftop. 

Trae is our Only  FT producer. 

For as much as I love DJM's game, he doesn't get to the FT line.   IF Trae steps on the court, he's going to make at least 6 trips to the FT line. 

In this short season, Trae is averaging 9.2 FTs per game.   The next highest person is DJM with 2.3.  Trae places himself with elite scorers by being able to generate fouls.  It leads to winning.  Especially when he can take advantage of a team in the penalty. 

 

 

 

 

[AtLaS]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

you pointed out something that needs to be Screamed to the rooftop. 

Trae is our Only  FT producer. 

For as much as I love DJM's game, he doesn't get to the FT line.   IF Trae steps on the court, he's going to make at least 6 trips to the FT line. 

In this short season, Trae is averaging 9.2 FTs per game.   The next highest person is DJM with 2.3.  Trae places himself with elite scorers by being able to generate fouls.  It leads to winning.  Especially when he can take advantage of a team in the penalty. 

 

 

 

 

Getting to the line stops momentum.  You win playoff games by not letting your opponent go on huge runs.  When you don't get to the line this can happen.  People with these ridiculous takes just don't understand that.  

 

DJM had a great game against the Bucks, but he scored 22 points on 22 shots.  Sorry that's not elite.  I love Murray and everything he brings to the table, but we need Trae especially in the playoffs.

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

you pointed out something that needs to be Screamed to the rooftop. 

Trae is our Only  FT producer. 

For as much as I love DJM's game, he doesn't get to the FT line.   IF Trae steps on the court, he's going to make at least 6 trips to the FT line. 

In this short season, Trae is averaging 9.2 FTs per game.   The next highest person is DJM with 2.3.  Trae places himself with elite scorers by being able to generate fouls.  It leads to winning.  Especially when he can take advantage of a team in the penalty. 

Very true.  I firmly believe drawing fouls is a skill in the NBA.  Always lamented that someone like Huerter didn't take advantage of it given that he had all the tools to do so (he could drive, had length and reasonable mobility, and obviously could get guys off their feet when he was going to take a jumper but he would avoid the contact once he compromised the defender and get a clean shot instead of trying for the and one).

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

Getting to the line stops momentum.  You win playoff games by not letting your opponent go on huge runs.  When you don't get to the line this can happen.  People with these ridiculous takes just don't understand that.  

 

DJM had a great game against the Bucks, but he scored 22 points on 22 shots.  Sorry that's not elite.  I love Murray and everything he brings to the table, but we need Trae especially in the playoffs.

Two things can be true.

Two players can coexist. 

It's Atlanta fandom to limit themselves to one good thing. 

It's Williams Andrews and Lynn Cain all over again. 

 

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

Very true.  I firmly believe drawing fouls is a skill in the NBA.  Always lamented that someone like Huerter didn't take advantage of it given that he had all the tools to do so (he could drive, had length and reasonable mobility, and obviously could get guys off their feet when he was going to take a jumper but he would avoid the contact once he compromised the defender and get a clean shot instead of trying for the and one).

Maryland Kev was a beast. 

3rd year Atlanta Kev got scared by something.  They say it was the arm injury.   I don't know.  I just know that he started avoiding contact.   It made him stop driving and stop going to the lane with his shot.   He limited himself to a foot on the Arc jump shooter.   I wanted the team to invest in him seeing a sports psychologist because, as you said, he has everything else to be great.  SacTown should have him seeing a hypnotist/psychotherapist weekly. 

You can't beat FT generation.  It's one of the things that marks Trae's greatness.   He also has the attitude to go with it. 

 

 

[Final_quest]

17 hours ago, gurpilo said:

I don’t know if Hawks management are realizing about the chance we have to build a contending roster. We have 3 players on rookie contract that can contribute and are playing winning basketball, JJ, AJ, OO, that is exceptionally rare and gives an unprecedented chance to fill a roster with quality vets and build a winning and deep roster.

I had some thoughts with these three plus Trae and DJM.  We got Capela, JC, Bogi, Jhol, and next year Hunter taking up a lot of capspace.  Would be interesting to see what we could flip to add a third star. 

We nailed it with DJM.  That is the type of move I was begging for us to make a year ago.  I haven't heard anyone mention this concept yet, but why not explore bringing in another guy?  We could package Bogi + someone in our front court, add a pick or dare I suggest one of our rookie contracts.  We still have pieces to make a move and keep Trae and DJM.  

Everyone last year asked me, "Who could we possibly get?"  I don't know, and that's not really the point.  All I can say is I may not be on Team Stand Pat.  Unless we are clearly a championship favorite, lets get another star if we can.  It's worth a conversation.