Official Game Thread: Hawks at Knicks

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Plainview1981 said:

I think this all out effort to build a team around Trae is going to fail.

While Trae is obviously better than JT was, you have sort of the same thing where you have a talented player with real limitations, but you're trying to build around a PG who is a poor defender that can't run any sort of elaborate offense.

 

I think you're both wrong and letting negativity win the day. 

Steph has never been a great or a good defender. .. But GS is a modern day dynasty...  Why?  Because they built the team the right way.   You can't chuck labels on Trae and call him this and that... but with a team that wasn't even built the right way, we made it to the ECFs and we were dominant.   It's going to be harder because the east is better but it's still true.. if we build it right, we will win.

 

[terrell]

On 12/8/2022 at 1:03 PM, JeffS17 said:

 

I agree with the first statement, but there's only a few players in the entire league who really fill this role.  You're talking about Embiid, KAT, Jokic, AD.  I don't think any of these guys are available.  Embiid/Jokic are not going anywhere.  AD probably stays put but I wouldn't want to give up assets for him anyways just because of his health.  KAT is the most likely to be available given how things are trending up in Minny. 

On court, and I think the fit would be great if we didn't have to give up too much.  That's always the question though.  His fit next to OO would be very nice on both sides of the court.  If we have to give up Murray though, we once again have on-ball defense issues.  It'd be a roster construction for #1 offense in the league and hope we can be top 15 on defense.

Schlenk trying to build a team around Trae..

[JeffS17]

22 minutes ago, terrell said:

Schlenk trying to build a team around Trae..

Trae will always be tough to build around, I don't envy Schlenks position. 

Trae puts butts in seats though and that's always going to be #1 priority.  Hawks have more season ticket holders 11,000+ than ever before.  That's why you see Jami giving Trae hugs (not really... well, maybe? lol) on the sideline.  Trae is not going anywhere so the FO kinda has to keep trying to see what works.  I'm hoping they hit a bullseye eventually.  We do have obvious areas of improvement.

[benhillboy]

30 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Trae will always be tough to build around, I don't envy Schlenks position. 

Trae puts butts in seats though and that's always going to be #1 priority.  Hawks have more season ticket holders 11,000+ than ever before.  That's why you see Jami giving Trae hugs (not really... well, maybe? lol) on the sideline.  Trae is not going anywhere so the FO kinda has to keep trying to see what works.  I'm hoping they hit a bullseye eventually.  We do have obvious areas of improvement.

Ressler & Co. has to go deeeeep into the tax.  He/ they won’t even dip his/ their toes in.  
 

Players with great positional size who can play on or off ball on both sides ain’t exactly cheap and the Hawks’ recent draft positions obviously hasn’t netted one.  AJ satisfies it on the offensive side, OO defensively albeit size issues.  Both obviously have real limits on the opposite sides.  You wouldn’t dare ask OO to bring the ball up or AJ to guard Anfernee Simons (who’s now leading the league in minutes wtf)

DJ is our only true-blue two way player with John and Dre being spread to thinly with roles that aren’t clearly defined.  Hawks need two more clear plus-plus players, one starter, one BU, to even start to realize a contending build plan.

Edited December 9, 2022 by benhillboy

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

Ressler & Co. has to go deeeeep into the tax.  He/ they won’t even dip his/ their toes in.  
 

Players with great positional size who can play on or off ball on both sides ain’t exactly cheap and the Hawks’ recent draft positions obviously hasn’t netted one.  AJ satisfies it on the offensive side, OO defensively albeit size issues.  Both obviously have real limits on the opposite sides.  You wouldn’t dare ask OO to bring the ball up or AJ to guard Anfernee Simons (who’s now leading the league in minutes wtf)

DJ is our only true-blue two way player with John and Dre being spread to thinly with roles that aren’t clearly defined.  Hawks need two more clear plus-plus players, one starter, one BU, to even start to realize a contending build plan.

I think this team isn't far but they aren't going to do it with this personnel

Edited December 9, 2022 by NBASupes

[benhillboy]

On 12/8/2022 at 2:04 PM, AHF said:

 

Is there a link to the article?  I'm not sure what their methodology looks like or if it is just "Team DRTG - Individual DRTG."  

FWIW, Using your numbers, Trae has an average gap of -3.2 while Anfernee Simon has an average gap of -4 so literally the first name I check debunked the article if they are averaging that gap by the number of seasons played.  (Trae has one season with a worse gap than a 3 while Simons has three seasons).  Notably Simons has also been the worst (or tied for worst) player on Portland every year (by DRTG), unlike Trae who has had a better DRTG than guys like Tony Snell and Lou Williams and has been tied with guys like DeAndre Hunter and Jeff Teague in past seasons.

I'm not debating either of those things.  I think he obviously isn't the worst defender of all time, and I just glanced at a couple of players to see there were two who were worse than him and stopped looking after that.  I hardly did a definitive deep dive to establish that he was bottom 3 in the league currently let alone bottom 3 in the history of the league which was the original claim.

I don’t know what the original article is.

I wholeheartedly believe in box.  As a Simons fan I can say he isn’t a good defender by any stretch but he is scrappy (much more than Lilliard) and is a level better than his box suggests.  I don’t watch Sexton a lot but haven’t seen any scrap from him.  
 

But I’ve seen more than enough of Clarkston, Poole, Beal, and Murray to clearly say they’re worse than Trae.  Them dudes is 194, 194, 207, and 215 respectively: too damn big to be -3 box defenders.  And they are awful position players, whereas Trae isn’t that bad at all.  It’s just Trae can provide no resistance to passes, shots, drives, or off ball movements nor help box out.  That’s all lol.

The best small guard defenders for my money can’t stay on the damn floor.  Payton, Caruso, Point Diff Delon.  They lock down players who can cook Smart.

Edited December 9, 2022 by benhillboy

[Vol4ever]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I think this team isn't far but they aren't going to do it with this personnel

Or Coach?  

[bleachkit]

At least Bogi got going. 

[Plainview1981]

On 12/9/2022 at 11:11 AM, Diesel said:

I think you're both wrong and letting negativity win the day. 

Steph has never been a great or a good defender. .. But GS is a modern day dynasty...  Why?  Because they built the team the right way.   You can't chuck labels on Trae and call him this and that... but with a team that wasn't even built the right way, we made it to the ECFs and we were dominant.   It's going to be harder because the east is better but it's still true.. if we build it right, we will win.

 

Players like Green don't grow on tree's. Trae is not or never will be the shooter that Curry is.

Trae is more in common with Marbury and Francis than Curry.

He needs the ball in his hands all the time. I'm not sure one can maintain a well oiled offense with him leading the way.

Now he is building a negative reputation for himself. George Karl coming out now and calling him out.

No, it doesn't help that Schlenk has botched almost all of his draft picks. If there is a way to win with Trae on a consistent basis it will not come with Schlenk has a GM and Nate as coach.